The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on November 29, 2012, 06:24:04 PM
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I can probably go along with 3 out of the four.......
I'd likely recommend something else besides the Mosin (don't have anything against them, but could think of a more modern version of bolt action to suggest).
Comments on each choice at the link:
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=32575
Four Guns Every Shooter Should Own
Mosin Nagant
Ruger 10/22
Mossberg 500
Glock 19
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To me it's more like...
AR15
10/22
Remington 1100
M1911A1
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AR 10
10/22
1911
Remington 1100
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AR 15
Remington 870 express
1911A1
10/22
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I was wondering how long it would take for the 870 to show up. If I got a pump that would probably be it.
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I was wondering how long it would take for the 870 to show up. If I got a pump that would probably be it.
Look for an older one Frank!
They can be had for short money and it's well worth the effort to locate one. The new ones, IMO, don't compare!
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I looked at it from two angles:
1) A recommended list for a new shooter that is easing into the game and wants a variety to serve multiple needs.
In that instance my list would be:
A- Instead of the Mosin, a centerfire bolt action in a caliber from .243 to .308...maybe .30-06
B- 10/22....maybe a Marlin M60
C- 12ga pump... any quality brand would do, but the Mossberg or maybe a H&R Pardner would be affordable
D- Glock 19.....because a newer shooter might be easier to break in with the simpler format
2) A seasoned shooter like many here:
(and this would be my list also)
A- AR platform in standard 5.56 (with a .300 barrel as back-up)
B- Marlin 60... because I have found them to be as accurate (if not more than) a standard 10/22 and there are no mags to keep up with. The caveats to that are slower reloads, fewer mods, and no availability for high capacity.
C- 12ga Pump.... I use Winchester 1300's because the prices were right (I have 2 8-shot Defenders that cost $250 for the pair)
D- 1911 style in .45ACP
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I looked at it from two angles:
You probably liked trigonometry too, didn't ya?
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do uppers count as one gun?
AR/5.56
870
.357 revolver
10/22
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A 12gauge pump shotgun - Mosberg 500 or Remigton 870
An AR rifle in 223
A Glock 19
A SW 686 .357 mag 6"
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You probably liked trigonometry too, didn't ya?
;D
But I did much better at calculus. :D ;D
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I hit the list 3 of 4 - I have an 870 (old one - Police Magnum variant - all metal external parts also) in place of the 500.
(Though I did want a 590 when I came across the 870.... extra credit?)
I would make a list as a more generalized list.
A pump shot gun
A "large" caliber double action revolver (.357 and up)
A Polymer wonder nine mm
? ? ? Too hard to chose one more class for me.
Lever gun to match the revolver is high on the list.
A Main Battle Rifle
A bolt action for North American game.....
They are all appealing...
Bah... I got 3 of 4
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A quality pump action shotgun.
A quality DA revolver.
A quality lever action in the revolver caliber.
A quality bow and the ability to use one!
Yea, I know you said gun...
All that autoloading stuff needs more cleaning but I'd still have a 1911 in the bunch...
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A quality pump action shotgun.
A quality DA revolver.
A quality lever action in the revolver caliber.
A quality bow and the ability to use one!
Yea, I know you said gun...
All that autoloading stuff needs more cleaning but I'd still have a 1911 in the bunch...
Still need to add the lever action to my collection but hope to remedy that this weekend. ;D
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CZ 452 or Ruger 77/22
Remington 870 (12 gauge)
Glock 19 / M&P 9
Remington 700 (.270 Winchester, .30-06)
...I'd like to carve out a slot for an AR here, but really I think the others would fill the gap.
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1911/HiPower/1187sp/03 Springfield sporter opean sights
YMMV
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1911
Mossberg 500 or 590
10/22
ar15
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sig 226
rem 870
m1a
win 1894
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The article mentioned new shooters and names four firearms that should easily cost the buyer less then $1000.00 total if the Glock is police trade-in.
Personally I would recommend a slightly different list.
1911 in .45acp with a .22lr conversion kit.
AR-15 in 5.56 with .22lr bolt conversion kit
Remington 870 12 gauge
Smith and Wesson 686 with 6 inch barrel
My choices totally blow a budget anywhere near $1000.00 and if a larger rifle round is required prices go up even more.
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A quality pump action shotgun.
A quality DA revolver.
A quality lever action in the revolver caliber.
A quality bow and the ability to use one!
Yea, I know you said gun...
All that autoloading stuff needs more cleaning but I'd still have a 1911 in the bunch...
Lotta trouble stopping with just 4, but Tim has it pretty close.
AR-15
.357 mag wheel gun
.357 mag lever
.44 mag wheel gun
.44 mag lever
Mossberg 500
Glock 27 .40S&W
If I NEEDED to trim it to 4, the .44 mag combo would come out and the Mossberg would stay in the closet. If the bad guys are close enough for me to use a shotgun, I'm good enough to drill 'em with the Glock.
But, I love my .44 mag combo. I'd carry the wheel gun all the time except it makes me walk with a limp.
Crusader
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Ruger 10/22
Mossberg 500
Mini 14
1911
and Compound Bow and the skill to shoot it. : ;D
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Why not...
10/22 (you guys convinced me)
Colt .357 Mag Revolver (never part with it)
Marlin 336 30/30 (puts meat on the table)
AR in .308 (puts meat on the ground)
Rem Pump in any gauge (for fowl attacks)
Oops, that's five! Never was good at math!
Might be tempted to replace the Marlin 30/30 with a lever .357 for logistics.
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Why not...
10/22 (you guys convinced me)
Colt .357 Mag Revolver (never part with it)
Marlin 336 30/30 (puts meat on the table)
AR in .308 (puts meat on the ground)
Rem Pump in any gauge (for fowl attacks)
Oops, that's five! Never was good at math!
Might be tempted to replace the Marlin 30/30 with a lever .357 for logistics.
That made me chuckle, right there......... :D :D ;D ;D ;D
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For me it's what I'm comfortable with. Couple of them have had for quite a few years so good fit.
AR 5.56
10/22
Mossberg 500
M1911A1
Think it is more what you are good with and comfortable with than anything else. It can be one of the highest ranked guns around, if you can't hit what you shoot at, not much goo.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned..
GP 100
Benelli, (and worth every dime of it)
AK.
I'm ashamed to admit it but I don't have a bolt gun. I was planning on having a Mosin by right about now but some things have come up..
I'm ashamed to admit that I traded my GP 100 several years back, too, for I don't even remember what now..
I don't have a pump gun either.. Another project that I had to put off for now..
Nothing in .308 either.. I toyed with the idea but I saw that ammo for it was even higher than the 30-30 that I traded away even farther back..
Another one that I traded off a long time ago now was a Makarov. That one, or another one of the better PPK variants is a good one to toss in just as an alternate..
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Ruger Redhawk 44mag
Win or rossi 92 in 44 mag
Marlin 39a .22 L/A (before Remington ruined them)
Remington 700 B/A in .223 or 308
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Seems that we mostly agree on
a .22 rifle
a "battle rifle"/large game gun
a center fire pistol
and a shotgun
The rest is just personal preference.
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Pegleg,
May I suggest a modern alternative for your bolt gun? Bought my son a Savage 110 package (w/scope) a few years ago. Has acu-trigger. Newer ones have better bonding too. Comes in a boatload of calibers including short action mags. Available in both LH and RH. Super accurate out of the box AND cheap. Newer models are available. My son already has upgraded the scope (recommended) as it comes with a bottom line Simmons. This is a users rifle, tough, reliable and simple. Haven't seen any bragging about them on this forum, but am not surprised. It lacks pizzazz! It just does what you want it to, when you want it to and how you want it to. It's the bolt my son grabs for stand hunting, over his Browning A-bolt. If I buy another bolt, I'll be looking at the Savage 11x line first and let something else convince they are a better buy for the money.
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Pegleg,
May I suggest a modern alternative for your bolt gun? Bought my son a Savage 110 package (w/scope) a few years ago. Has acu-trigger. Newer ones have better bonding too. Comes in a boatload of calibers including short action mags. Available in both LH and RH. Super accurate out of the box AND cheap. Newer models are available. My son already has upgraded the scope (recommended) as it comes with a bottom line Simmons. This is a users rifle, tough, reliable and simple. Haven't seen any bragging about them on this forum, but am not surprised. It lacks pizzazz! It just does what you want it to, when you want it to and how you want it to. It's the bolt my son grabs for stand hunting, over his Browning A-bolt. If I buy another bolt, I'll be looking at the Savage 11x line first and let something else convince they are a better buy for the money.
I didn't specify in my follow-up to the OP on a particular brand rifle for the newer shooters, just a modern bolt action because there are so many out there that fill the bill....... But, I 100% agree on the Savage as a fine choice. I think they are most probably the best deal anywhere when relating price paid for accuracy gained.
I have been a fan of their rifles for years. My first centerfire rifle was a 110LA in .30-06, and I regret ever trading it. My sons both use the Savage SA in .243.......and one has a LA in .270.
Another thing I like about the Savage bolt guns is the ability to change barrels and calibers on your own, provided you have the tools.
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May I suggest a modern alternative for your bolt gun? Bought my son a Savage 110 package (w/scope) a few years ago. Has acu-trigger. Newer ones have better bonding too.
Jrlobo, I'm at a loss on what this means. Bonding?
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I'm guessing he meant bedding of the barrel.
maybe not...
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.22 rifle
.357 Mag revolver
.308 rifle or its equivalent
1911 Government model .45 ACP
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If it came down to parts accessability and ease of replacement:
1. Glock 19 but would prefer a 1911, but not exactly drop in friendly.
2. Ruger 10/22
3. Remington 870, I am guessing you can find a part or two for one of these because I figured there were a few made over the years.
4. A good AR lower. You can build anything around a good base.
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1. Suppressed 22 LR bolt action.
2. .308/7.62 in bolt action, scoped.
3. 12 gauge pump shotgun.
4. AR-15
No handguns. Use AR for defense. All with consideration for finding ammo ni hard times.
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Rastus, Your choice of no hand gun overlooks the fact that you can't always carry a rifle, in your hands, or slung on your shoulder, while working.
But a pistol on your hip or in a shoulder holster is out of the way while still always being within reach.
Just an observation.
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Question is whether or not it's no handguns because of choice or circumstance.
Remember that the gun you have with you is better than the one you left at home. AND if you're expecting trouble, bring your rifle.
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Rastus, Your choice of no hand gun overlooks the fact that you can't always carry a rifle, in your hands, or slung on your shoulder, while working.
But a pistol on your hip or in a shoulder holster is out of the way while still always being within reach.
Just an observation.
Question is whether or not it's no handguns because of choice or circumstance.
Remember that the gun you have with you is better than the one you left at home. AND if you're expecting trouble, bring your rifle.
Both great observations. I looked at it from the standpoint that I was staying home and not going out. For me, right or wrong, my thinking excluded concealed/open carry...which was probably a mistake. So, Tom is right and if I assume we don't have a Zompocalypse and get I get outdoors some then I'd probably drop the .308 bolt and replace it with a semi-auto 9MM. In that, I can hunt pretty much anything up to deer which, though more difficult with a 12 gauge slug/buck in some instances and handicapped by the smaller .223...it will do the job.
In reality I'm going to beg/borrow/steal to have at least 5 weapons which include my first 4 and a fullsize 9MM semi.....which is not in keeping with the thread. Maybe I could drop the suppressed 22 in lieu of the AR with a conversion kit which I like if I had only 4. But hey, I think we have bad times coming so my thought process was/is to be safe at home. However, with the commies in office they may make us give our homes to their supporters and put us in gulags.....who knows?
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kmitch/Timothy, Bonding? I was referring to what Savage calls AccuStock which is a more comprehensive bedding technique to improve accuracy. Sorry, I couldn't remember their terms but in my mind this is a bonding between, action, fore-end and stock which supposedly helps eliminate variances from temperature, humidity, etc. I had bought my son's Savage before AccuStock was a feature. I can't remember seeing any tests that show accuracy improvements resulting from its use, however. But I do trust Savage with their rifles, but not their muzzle loaders (remember the smokeless powder fiasco?).
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something quiet for small game
autoloader rifle with minute of angle precision to 200m
autoloader service sized handgun
not so sure about a shotgun
small concealable handgun
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Glock19
AK47
Moss 500
Marlin 336
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A LEVER ACTION .22
A .30-30
MOSSBERG 12 GA.
.357 MAG RUGER
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A LEVER ACTION .22
A .30-30
MOSSBERG 12 GA.
.357 MAG RUGER
Definitely see the cowboy influence in your picks. :D
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Pegleg,
May I suggest a modern alternative for your bolt gun? Bought my son a Savage 110 package (w/scope) a few years ago. Has acu-trigger. Newer ones have better bonding too. Comes in a boatload of calibers including short action mags. Available in both LH and RH. Super accurate out of the box AND cheap. Newer models are available. My son already has upgraded the scope (recommended) as it comes with a bottom line Simmons. This is a users rifle, tough, reliable and simple. Haven't seen any bragging about them on this forum, but am not surprised. It lacks pizzazz! It just does what you want it to, when you want it to and how you want it to. It's the bolt my son grabs for stand hunting, over his Browning A-bolt. If I buy another bolt, I'll be looking at the Savage 11x line first and let something else convince they are a better buy for the money.
For the record, I replaced that Simmons with a Redfield revolution 4-12x40mm and ill never go back. He is right that my .270 WSM LH bolt IS my hunting rifle. When I go to WV to hunt that is my primary, secondary is either a marlin .30-30 or a Remington .30-06. Both of those rifles, btw, are rifles I grew up on.
So my list?
Veteran shooters:
Ar platform rifle(.308 preferred but .223 okay)
Bolt action rifle (with medium power scope. Preferably .30-06 for access to ammo or 7mm rem mag) ****yes I love .270wsm but ammo is 42.00 per 20 rds and hard to reload****
SERVICE semi-auto .45. Don't be that guy who buys a tactical because its cool, you look foolish and paid way too much. The man makes the gun accurate, not thr other way. I have a Springfield xD service 4" .45 that is my carry when hunting. I also have a .40 s&w USP and .44 mag.
**shock** .54 Hawkins percussion black powder rifle. Through some enginuity I can and have made gun powder before. I can make my own lead balls. Unlimited hunting source. Enough said.
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For the record, I replaced that Simmons with a Redfield revolution 4-12x40mm and ill never go back. He is right that my .270 WSM LH bolt IS my hunting rifle. When I go to WV to hunt that is my primary, secondary is either a marlin .30-30 or a Remington .30-06. Both of those rifles, btw, are rifles I grew up on.
So my list?
Veteran shooters:
Ar platform rifle(.308 preferred but .223 okay)
Bolt action rifle (with medium power scope. Preferably .30-06 for access to ammo or 7mm rem mag) ****yes I love .270wsm but ammo is 42.00 per 20 rds and hard to reload****
SERVICE semi-auto .45. Don't be that guy who buys a tactical because its cool, you look foolish and paid way too much. The man makes the gun accurate, not thr other way. I have a Springfield xD service 4" .45 that is my carry when hunting. I also have a .40 s&w USP and .44 mag.
**shock** .54 Hawkins percussion black powder rifle. Through some enginuity I can and have made gun powder before. I can make my own lead balls. Unlimited hunting source. Enough said.
Caught my eye with that one since not one other list, my own included, has considered an interruption of ammo supplies.
One change I would suggest is Flintlock instead of percussion that is dependent on a supply of caps.
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Caught my eye with that one since not one other list, my own included, has considered an interruption of ammo supplies.
One change I would suggest is Flintlock instead of percussion that is dependent on a supply of caps.
Good point, however, the cap metal can be made by various metals where as flint as a commodity is difficult to find. That and there needs to be a balance in availability and accuracy of the firearm.
Notice I said firearm, not bringing bows into this. :-)
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Off topic, but flint, sulfur, and lead were all relatively easy to obtain in the colonies with out relying on imports.
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I have enough flint here in south Georgia to make you change your mind. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I was thinking these.
A Browning BAR 30-06 with open sights and some good glass on top and some 10 round mags if can get them still. It'll take care of anything and gives you some distance. Higher capacity rifles sound great, but AKs aren't accurate and ARs aren't as lethal. There are few wounded by a 30-06 stories, for men or beasts.
A 12ga pump I like the looks of the 870, but the 500 Mossberg works better for me, even it's ugly and has a plastic trigger guard.
A Ruger 10/22 or any .22, but most of us have them already.
A Glock 9mm, take your pick there are benefits each and I prefer the 19. It can use both 17 and 19 mags, the 26 may be the best choice, but I don't like the grip too short. I'm a 1911 guy in general, but a glock is a glock, a 1911 is part of a family of related guns and many don't mix well.
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I have enough flint here in south Georgia to make you change your mind. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yeah I too was going to question the flint-hard-to-find. Plus it has a pretty much unlimited shelf-life so you can stock up. I've got a couple hundred pounds of it in the front yard disguised as landscaping. ;)
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You can still buy flint by the barrel that was knapped for British wars in India , so no, shelf life is not a problem. ;D
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Here is a good read on gunpowder:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder
Seems to me that I read a long time ago that you can produce the nitrates need for a crude gunpowder by evaporating urine and "mining" the remaining crystals. Takes quite some time to get enough though and a lot of beer. ;D
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Point taken Tom. :-)