The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on December 03, 2012, 10:47:33 PM
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Here is a situation for you to comment on:
You are in a crowded gun store. The gun department is located in a corner with long guns along two walls. The counter follows the two walls, plus comes out into the room where knives are displayed. This creates a u shaped area for employees only, a square area for gun shoppers, and on the outside of the one side is where knife shoppers are.
As you are shopping knives with a new gun owner you look up, and Mr. Tacticool salesman is waving a handgun around showing his best mall ninja moves to a young couple. Mr. Tacticool could turn his back to the customers and to the south, and in both moves he would be pointing at walls. However, he chooses to muzzle the couple, everyone at the counters on his side, and those of us at the knife counter ... But, he sure looked cool.
As someone helps you at the knife counter, and after they help the person you are with with a couple knives to look at, you ask him to ask Mr. Tacticool to quit pointing his gun at us. Mr. Professional looks over his shoulder and cooly states "It is hard to avoid in a gun shop."
I will answer general questions you may have, but I will reserve more details for as long as I can bare it.
What would your response be?
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To leave.
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Most gun shops I've known keep a few loaded in event of robbery, the employees know which ones. Given that, I don't appreciate being muzzle swept. I'd complain to the manager. Even if it was an obviously empty weapon, its no excuse. Not to sound holier than thou, as I did once myself at Gander while fondling a P-90. I inadvertantly swept a guy, and he gave me a totally withering glare and I felt about six inches tall as I knew better. I shrugged and lowered it and he nodded. Point made and received. That guy needs to get the same kick in the ass.
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IIRC m58 is a certified safety instructor.
That being the case in his shoes I would have called the clerk on his unsafe habits .
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I would address Mr. Tactifool directly or I would assume he's following the 4 safety rules and is preparing to engage and respond accordingly ;D
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As I said, I am going to try to let this work its course for awhile, but to FQ - The only place for a loaded handgun in a gun store is in a holster on staff's hip!* Any place else is a bad situation. This is just like the zero ammunition in the cleaning or repair area.
* With the exception of firearms being carried by customers.
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As I said, I am going to try to let this work its course for awhile, but to FQ - The only place for a loaded handgun in a gun store is in a holster on staff's hip!* Any place else is a bad situation. This is just like the zero ammunition in the cleaning or repair area.
* With the exception of firearms being carried by customers.
I'm just reporting what I've been told by guys I knew at a couple of gun shops. The idea was that in the event of a robbery, they would be disarmed. While handing the guns over, they would have access to some that were "hot". Whether this is a good or bad idea I have no opinion. I don't work there. I'm just reporting the news.
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I'd leave and probably find another retailer. It's happened too many times!
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One of the "Rules for Managers" I learned when I was a young buck in charge of people was: Praise publicly. Criticize privately.
That said, if I had the time, I would wait out Mr. Tacticool's customer experience and then, as discretely as possible, without raising my voice, explain to him that if he should ever point a gun at me in the future, said gun would require surgical removal from his rectal area. I would explain this to him in such a way that would leave no doubt about my intent or ability to follow through.
If I got any sass-back from the idjit, I would then quietly explain the same thing to the store owner/manager.
That should do it, but sometimes store owners/managers are idjits, too.
In that case, said gun shop would be on my "Do Not Go" list.
FWIW,
Crusader
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Loudly start teaching your friend the 4 rules of gun safety.
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Loudly start teaching your friend the 4 rules of gun safety.
I would start reciting them loudly enough for every one in the store to hear! If that were to be a problem, I would make my dis-satisfaction known, loudly, to the store manager. If it were a chain, to corporate. If I got no satisfaction then, to the interwebs, and I wouldn't hesitate to let said store know.
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Remember though, you don't want to get the fired in this economy, just get him educated. This was an act of ignorance not malice. It needs correction, not punishment (hey, its Christmas, even I can be nice). ;D
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Remember though, you don't want to get the fired in this economy, just get him educated. This was an act of ignorance not malice. It needs correction, not punishment (hey, its Christmas, even I can be nice). ;D
Firearms safety is a zero tolerance game!
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Firearms safety is a zero tolerance game!
Firearms safety is zero tolerance, but hardly a game.
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Mr. Professional looks over his shoulder and cooly states "It is hard to avoid in a gun shop."
Absolute, lazy, braindead BULLSH!T!!!
This guy needs an education sooner rather than later. If he won't take it from a customer, maybe he'd pay attention to his boss.
In my first CCW class the instructor made it perfectly clear that NO weapon will be allowed to be pointed at anyone at ANY time.
If we saw him muzzle someone - even with a plastic demo gun - we would immediately get our money back and the class was free.
That was enough motivation for the class of 30 or so people to watch very closely, and it never did happen in a room packed full of bodies.
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I've had to remind folks very close to me (family) that I don't tolerate mishandling of a firearm even if I've unloaded it and rechecked it personally! I've lived my entire life with the thought that it's always loaded and kept that mindset! I expect no different from those around me.
I avoid Bass Pro gun counters for those reasons alone as I've found the people behind the counter to be inexperienced and inept in their handling of their guns.
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I had a similar situation a couple of years ago. When I mentioned it to Mr. Salesman I was told that he was a PROFESSIONAL firearms handler, and as an expert he knew better than I when it came to firearms safety. I told him to have a nice life, and left before I acquired any holes in my personage that hadn't been there when I entered the store. Haven't been back since.
BTW, this guy was the store's owner.
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There's just no excuse, especially in a commercial situation. I have made mistakes, but someone who points a product at a customer? Fire his ass! As an owner how could you tolerate that? Just think of liability?
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i would start with the guy I was talking to and explain that he was dead wrong about how hard it is. If he gave me crap I would ask for the manager. I would show him my NRA RSO card and explain the 4 rules in order and ask why they felt that they did not need to train their staff in basic safety. I would raise the question if their gun knowledge was the equal of their safety knowledge. I would explain how I had trained hundreds of 11-17 year old scouts without ever being told safety was impossible. Depending on teh reception of this information I would start getting louder to make sure that all the customers understood how unprofessional the store staff was and how much more knowledgeable the gun store down the street was.
As a Safety Perfessional I know that it is more fun and effective if you can do this without loosing your temper but I suspect they would not want to listen and that would probably annoy me.
The easy answer for them is to hang a couple of targets on the safe walls and use them direct all gun handling.
joe
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I had a similar situation a couple of years ago. When I mentioned it to Mr. Salesman I was told that he was a PROFESSIONAL firearms handler, and as an expert he knew better than I when it came to firearms safety. I told him to have a nice life, and left before I acquired any holes in my personage that hadn't been there when I entered the store. Haven't been back since.
BTW, this guy was the store's owner.
Reminds me of the FBI agent who was to give a talk on the Glock 40 (I think it was) saying he was the PROFESSSIONAL and knew more about it than anyone....just before he shot himself with it...
There is a video of it around somewhere....I'd imagine we've all seen it a few times.
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Reminds me of the FBI agent who was to give a talk on the Glock 40 (I think it was) saying he was the PROFESSSIONAL and knew more about it than anyone....just before he shot himself with it...
There is a video of it around somewhere....I'd imagine we've all seen it a few times.
"I'm the only person in this room qualified to handle this weapon . . ." BANG!
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"I'm the only person in this room qualified to handle this weapon . . ." BANG!
Yeah ;D ;D ;D Then as people are dragging or carrying their children out of the room, he is limping around trying to convince them they should stay.
Guy is lucky though....most folks only get 15 minutes in the spotlight... he has established his legacy.
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I wonder if he lost his job over that, to me its no question... Heres your check.
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I wonder if he lost his job over that, to me its no question... Heres your check.
He works for the gubmint. Dumb sumbitch probably got a promotion.
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He works for the gubmint. Dumb sumbitch probably got a promotion.
I hope so. He's the kind of fed I want coming after me, I won't need to do a damn thing, he'll just shoot himself. Maybe he could deputize Tex Grebner? ;D