The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on December 10, 2012, 03:11:44 PM
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Rob Pincus has touched, more than lightly, on the importance of physical fitness for self defense and in case of bug out. Now I admit that I will never be an RP or his Ninja, but I also admit I need to improve.
The following is in the Washington Post today, and I find it interesting - Especially some of the comments by people that don't like the idea that we are a fat society.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/rising-number-of-soldiers-being-dismissed-for-failing-fitness-tests/2012/12/08/13d2e444-40b8-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html?hpid=z1 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/rising-number-of-soldiers-being-dismissed-for-failing-fitness-tests/2012/12/08/13d2e444-40b8-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html?hpid=z1)
Rising number of soldiers being dismissed for failing fitness tests
I believe that waving many standards is common and appropriate in times of need within the military, and I also believe that it is appropriate to return to the standards as soon as possible. My brother-in-law was in the Army and left, because when he was stationed at Fort Sill with all of the opportunities they offer he could not keep his weight in check. It was sad that a man half way to retirement would walk away due to lack of commitment to his own health.
This could be a two part thread: How do you feel about the standards and their return in the military; and what do you do to stay fit. I am actually more concerned with the second, because as I age it gets tougher and tougher.
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As far as the military standards go, the general standards aren't very difficult to achieve. As taxpayers, we're footing the bill for their health care, so I think the responsible thing to do is to make sure they maintain standards that would keep them in good health. As for combat soldiers, I don't think fitness is really an issue.
Personally, I do more than most. I've been playing rugby since 1996 and competing in strongman competitions since 2004 and even amongst all of my fellow teammates and strongman competitors, I'm know as the guy who is always busting his ass on the 'off days', if there is such a thing. I dream about training and I live to compete. Unfortunately, at 37, my body doesn't heal like it did when I was younger. Decades of beating and banging takes it's toll.
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I'm a fatass...drink too much, eat too much, but my old man was 93 when he died and it was damned ugly. I figure if I hit 70 I'll be worn out anyway. I TRY to be active, but I don't work out.
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I'm very active at work. I physically load about 45 tons of trash per week. Yeah, me, a one man operation. I also walk over 30 miles per week while working. I have one of those old school trucks. The kind you load from the back. I'm still fat. Probably the fittest fat guy you'll ever meet. Quit drinking, quit smoking 20+ years ago. Plenty to do when I get home too. I grow the vast majority of our vegetables. I grow 'organically'. Lots of labor involved in that too. If TSHTF, I ain't buggin' out. I'm buggin' in.
I also cut and split my own firewood. I did 6 cords this past summer.
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Fatbaldguy, You sound like the typical American working male of a generation or two ago. They looked like a doctor's nightmare, and the fitness dudes made fun of them. But they could out run, out wrestle, out punch, and out endure many so called athletes and jogging snobs. At one time I was that way too, but road sales and desk time have not been kind the last few years.
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Fatbaldguy, You sound like the typical American working male of a generation or two ago. They looked like a doctor's nightmare, and the fitness dudes made fun of them.
That'd be me. The young studs at work laugh at me, til I have to help them finish their days work.
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I'm going to leave the rest of us out of this, but if you're a soldier or LEO you should be held to basic physical fitness standards. I mean it is your job to close with and defeat the enemy, yes? You should be able to do that.
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Every time they want to draw down forces they mess with the PT standards. The standards had been fairly consistant for the first half of my career, then there has been a steady decrease in the time allowed for the run and the Max number of push-ups and sit-ups has gradually risen. With that there have been additional rules about retention after a PT failure. Before you could fail one and be OK as long as you passed the next one. Now if you go to any retention board with ANY failures in your career you will be told to leave. Two in a row and you don't advance, three and you're gone. The CO could keep you in if he wanted to before, usually guys close to retirement or had a problem during the test but couldn't redo it (twisted ankle for example). Now he has no control and it goes to BuPers.
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Okay, official drift here..
I was in from 86 to 92. I saw the beginnings of the transition from self contained to contractors for food, logistics and that kind of thing..
Personally, I think it's better to have "Soldiers" do all of it, but I understand that many will disagree.
(I think alot of Rumsfeld, but I disagree with him on this one..)
Who thinks the old way was better?
Who thinks the new way is better?
I'll leave the "why or why not" to your own discretion..
Any bites?
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The new way is a better utilization of resources in a force that depends on strictly volunteers to fill the ranks.
I've read that in Vietnam, for every soldier actually shooting at communists there were 10 or more shuffling paper and cargo to keep him there.
As an example, I know a retired Army Infantry Major, 82nd Airborne who served 2 tours in Vn.
He never heard a shot fired in anger.
He commanded a satellite camp in Vung Tau.
He didn't command any of the units, he was just the "landlord",.
Halliburton and other contractors put guys like him in the mud eating C Rats, instead of critiquing the wine in the Generals mess.
In other words it puts the Infantry officers back doing what we are paying them for, leading men in combat.
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Okay, official drift here..
I was in from 86 to 92. I saw the beginnings of the transition from self contained to contractors for food, logistics and that kind of thing..
Personally, I think it's better to have "Soldiers" do all of it, but I understand that many will disagree.
(I think alot of Rumsfeld, but I disagree with him on this one..)
Who thinks the old way was better?
Who thinks the new way is better?
I'll leave the "why or why not" to your own discretion..
Any bites?
Here's one. I think Rumsfeld was the worst Sec. Def. since McNamara. You don't put people in mission critical combat support positions if you can't court martial them. If Halliburton or KBR employees don't show up, the worst you can do is fire them. If they are Army, they'll be looking at Leavenworth, and so keep going since they know they have to keep their oath. Its a a money saver in peacetime but suicide when the bullets are incoming and the troops need supplies. Plus, it drains our ranks. A sergeant making $35K can make $60K working for KBR doing the same job? On what planet would he or she re-up?
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Here's one. I think Rumsfeld was the worst Sec. Def. since McNamara. You don't put people in mission critical combat support positions if you can't court martial them. If Halliburton or KBR employees don't show up, the worst you can do is fire them. If they are Army, they'll be looking at Leavenworth, and so keep going since they know they have to keep their oath. Its a a money saver in peacetime but suicide when the bullets are incoming and the troops need supplies. Plus, it drains our ranks. A sergeant making $35K can make $60K working for KBR doing the same job? On what planet would he or she re-up?
Of course you do.
You're a liberal academic with no real world experience to base your uninformed opinion on.
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Of course you do.
You're a liberal academic with no real world experience to base your uninformed opinion on.
Well then you inform me Marine. Who do you trust to bring you your supplies when the STHF (think Battle of the Bulge or the Choisin Resevoir), a contrator or a fellow Marine? Ball's in your court Tom.
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I agree with GQ - if your in the position that dictates physical fitness - don't be a lard ass.... nothing more appealing than seeing a group out looking for a lost family than some fat ass LEO leaning against command car 1 so fat he can't tuck a shirt in - how in the hell would he be able to get it done on foot if he ever had to....
Back on topic.
http://www.crossfit.com/
Cross Fit - started when a few guys realized that the typically gym routine did nothing for "real life" physical fitness - basic premise could I scoop up my 11 year old daughter and get the hell outta' Dodge in a reasonable manner - caring a load.
or the wife - or things the family needed to bug - allowing hem to just take themselves.
Real fitness for the real world
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Well then you inform me Marine. Who do you trust to bring you your supplies when the STHF (think Battle of the Bulge or the Choisin Resevoir), a contrator or a fellow Marine? Ball's in your court Tom.
If you knew half the history you think you do you would know that the people who administered our WWII supply system were directly from the civilian logistics industry.
Just like the construction industry supplied the personnel for the Sea Bee's.