The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: McGyver on December 18, 2012, 08:50:10 AM
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Due to the tragedy in Connecticut......................
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cerberus-sell-gunmaker-freedom-group-105405510.html
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This is what happens when non-gun people own and operate gun companies. They are not in it for the principle, the activity, the heritage, or the purpose. They are only in it for the return on the dollar. Get ready for step number two when they sign on to the gun ban and gun legislation as public relation move to shore up their return on other investments.
Did you see anywhere in the article that DPMS or Remington are on the block? One a maker of ARs just like the Colt Bushmaster, and the other a major outlet for the DPMS and the Bushmaster under a different name. I bet these weasels will play both sides as long as possible. If they hang onto DPMS they will just replace the Bushmaster made AR15s with DPMS AR15s in the Remington lineup.
Am I rambling yet? My blood pressure is so high my left eyeball fell out on the keyboard last night, and I ran out of Crown Sunday >:(
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Bullshit.
Freedom Group may be selling Bushmaster, but it is not because the nut job in Conn had one locked in his car when he shot those kids with 2 stolen pistols.
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Tom, I believe he had a 12g. in the car, the people were all shot with an AR according to the news reports.
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According to everything I've seen and heard he used a Sig and a Glock .
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The Chief Medical Examiner revealed at a press conference on Saturday that all of the wounds he saw were the result of rifle fire.
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http://news.yahoo.com/first-funerals-newtown-victims-schools-confront-tragedy-012536554.html
"Several Democratic lawmakers have called for a new push for U.S. gun restrictions, including a ban on assault weapons such as the Bushmaster AR-15 used by Lanza, who carried hundreds of rounds of ammunition in extra clips and shot all of his victims repeatedly, one of them 11 times. Lanza also shot dead his mother before driving to the school, and then killed himself to end the massacre with a death toll of 28."
I'll find more press releases in a minute. My google-fu is fading early today!
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/newtown-mourns-dead-as-police-seek-clear-picture-of-shooting-1.1081970 (http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/newtown-mourns-dead-as-police-seek-clear-picture-of-shooting-1.1081970)
Vance did not say what weapon Lanza used to kill his mother, but he did say the primary weapon used at the school was a high-powered Bushmaster AR-15. Lanza was also armed with two handguns, a Glock 10 mm and a Sig Sauer 9 mm, and had another shotgun in the car he had driven there.
Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/newtown-mourns-dead-as-police-seek-clear-picture-of-shooting-1.1081970#ixzz2FQC9s08y
I know others are flying up as I keep trying to post this, but more information is better than not enough when learning facts we repeat in public.
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The mother was shot four times in the head with a .22cal rifle.
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Cerberus is trying to get out before the ban. This is all about the dollars, nothing more. They are probably getting flooded with calls from concerned investors wanting to dump. Stock in Ruger, S&W, and others dropped 8% since the shooting. Suddenly these guns everyone wants, don't match the same desire for stock in the companies who make them. This isn't careful action. It's emotional reaction. Someone is going to get clipped. Emotional investors don't last.
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Interesting...with Cerberus, the Discovery Channel, Dick's....you start to see who is really a part of the gun industry or who is comitted, as opposed to who was just in it to make some quick bucks. Screw every one of them who take a step back.
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PR damage control. Which doesn't make it any less a pile of bullsh!t.
Maybe Bushy wasn't as big a profit driver as DPMS.
And yes, investing is ALWAYS about turning a profit. There isn't any other reason to invest in something if you plan to live off of it someday.
Good intentions & heritage won't put gas in your car or food in the fridge.
Would I prefer to invest in gun companies rather than hippy flower shops? Yes.
If the hippies are turning higher profits at a higher rate though, a prudent investor puts some money on the horse that will win or place.
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PR damage control. Which doesn't make it any less a pile of bullsh!t.
Maybe Bushy wasn't as big a profit driver as DPMS.
DPMS technically speaking IS Bushmaster. The main reason the old Bushmaster plant in Windham, Maine was sold back to Richard Dyke, (who started both Bushmaster and more recently, Windham Weaponry in the same plant), was because Cerberus didn't need it anymore. They had consolidated production of both Bushmaster and DPMS at the DPMS plant. Also Remington AR-15's were manufactured there. They are nothing more than DPMS / Bushmaster rifles shipped in a green box with a Remington logo on it. This was all decided long before that kid pulled a trigger.
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Here's some more info......
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/12/18/breaking-news-cerberus-to-sell-freedom-group/
Reuters is reporting that Cerberus Capital Management will immediately begin selling The Freedom Group ...
U.S. private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management said on Tuesday it will immediately begin selling its investment in gunmaker Freedom Group in light of last week's school shooting in Connecticut.
Cerberus acquired Bushmaster in 2006 and later merged it with other gun companies to create Freedom Group, which reported net sales of $677.3 million for the nine months ending September 2012, up from $564.6 million in the same period a year ago.
Bushmaster is the manufacturer of the AR 15 rifle used by the shooter in the Newtown killings that claimed 27 lives, including 20 school children.
"We do not believe that Freedom Group or any single company or individual can prevent senseless violence or the illegal use or procurement of firearms and ammunition," Cerberus said in a statement.
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The company has been wanting to sell its interests in The Freedom Group for some time now. Sales across the industry are very strong and they will remain strong for at least another 12 - 24 months.
Many gun owners have been uncomfortable with Cerberus Capital's ownership of such a large portion of the gun industry and will be relived to hear they are selling it.
Seems they wanted out for a while...
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Sounds like a Fire sale to me, may be time to buy stock in Bushy... oops Freedom Group is privately held...
:-\
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I wonder if Randy Luth still has some of his assets in a liquid form ::)
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Just the first of this month S&W was selling for $10 a share.
Today it closed a $7.79.
I might suggest that this would be a good time to invest in some shares. This current market in firearms related stock is just a knee jerk, politically-soiled reaction. When profit numbers for this quarter come out, the prices will shoot back up.
Yes, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. I have an order in to buy 200 shares this week.
Disclaimer: I am not a stock market analyst or an investment counselor. Your millage may vary.
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Over the last 4 or 5 years S&W and Ruger, (I think they are the only publicly traded gun companies )
have been consistant money makers for their investors.
They have been 2 of the best performing stocks on the market.
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This is when we reply with our money. I hope no one will buy them as they have become insignifficant. There are plenty of companies that sell similar products to buy from. The answer is to not buy from them period support the competition with your money odds are you will end up with a better product.
Mike Mc
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This is when we reply with our money. I hope no one will buy them as they have become insignifficant. There are plenty of companies that sell similar products to buy from. The answer is to not buy from them period support the competition with your money odds are you will end up with a better product.
Mike Mc
Who exactly are you talking about??
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This is when we reply with our money. I hope no one will buy them as they have become insignifficant. There are plenty of companies that sell similar products to buy from. The answer is to not buy from them period support the competition with your money odds are you will end up with a better product.
Mike Mc
I don't know where you are going to find a significantly better product than the Bushmaster or DPMS. I would love to see these companies move back into private ownership. Prior to the investment folk coming in you could run up to St. Cloud, stop at DelTone play with guns, and they they took you over to DPMS to see more options, tour the plant, and buy one.
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This is when we reply with our money. I hope no one will buy them as they have become insignifficant. There are plenty of companies that sell similar products to buy from. The answer is to not buy from them period support the competition with your money odds are you will end up with a better product.
Mike Mc
If you are referring to Bushmaster and DPMS, and you think they are "insignificant", you are sorely ill informed. Both Bushmaster and DPMS have a very large portion of the AR-15 rifle market. They make a good product that a lot of shooters and police departments are very satisfied with. I've never understood shooters that call for boycotts of gun manufacturers. That's just plain nuts. We went through this nonsense with Ruger and Smith & Wesson in their past, and it went nowhere. Both companies are thriving....Thank God.
Cerberus Capitol Management is a holding company. Nothing more, nothing less. Most gun manufacturers are owned by holding companies at one time or another. Smith & Wesson was owned by Bangor Punta, Lear Siegler, and finally Tompkins PLC before it was sold to Safe-T-Hammer. Bushmaster was started and thrived under Richard Dyke. Now it's owned, and on the block for Cerberus. Believe it or not, certain divisions of Colt were owned at one time by Pratt & Whitney. None of this is anything new. If you want to get pissed at something or someone, do it at Dianne Feinstein and Michael Bloomberg. They're out to ream you, along with your rights far more than Bushmaster, DPMS, or whoever owns them, whenever they happen to own them, are ever going to.
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If you are referring to Bushmaster and DPMS, and you think they are "insignificant", you are sorely ill informed. Both Bushmaster and DPMS have a very large portion of the AR-15 rifle market. They make a good product that a lot of shooters and police departments are very satisfied with. I've never understood shooters that call for boycotts of gun manufacturers. That's just plain nuts. We went through this nonsense with Ruger and Smith & Wesson in their past, and it went nowhere. Both companies are thriving....Thank God.
Cerberus Capitol Management is a holding company. Nothing more, nothing less. Most gun manufacturers are owned by holding companies at one time or another. Smith & Wesson was owned by Bangor Punta, Lear Siegler, and finally Tompkins PLC before it was sold to Safe-T-Hammer. Bushmaster was started and thrived under Richard Dyke. Now it's owned, and on the block for Cerberus. Believe it or not, certain divisions of Colt were owned at one time by Pratt & Whitney. None of this is anything new. If you want to get pissed at something, do it at Dianne Feinstein and Michael Bloomberg. They're out to ream you, along with your rights far more than Bushmaster, DPMS, or whoever owns them, whenever they happen to own them, are ever going to.
Which is really ironic since Francis Pratt,a great gun designer , as well as maker, learned his trade working at Colt .
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So funny they are stopping now after making so much money the 4 years that they have owned it or whatever it is. They bought a bunch of gun companies a few years ago I remember. Don't know the exact extent but they have made a ton of money off ARs. I also laugh at the reinstallation of the AWB. They cats out of the bag. How many ARs and Aks are out there now. If they are the problem well going to be forever cause anyone that wants one. Has one or one on order. Just all a knee jerk joke.
Saw a columbine student on tv today. Why? So some guy that lives 10 miles from the school on today also. Why? Just keep feeding the next sicko out there more confidence in him becoming a saint to the media.
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You need to remember that Cerberus owned 51% of GM and most of Chrysler when Obama nationalized the auto industry.
They probably want to get out before another executive order seizes more of their assets in uncompensated confiscation.
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There are many companies that produce better or equivilent AR's than DPMS and Bushmaster. Stag Arms, Doublestar,Palmeto State Armory, Les Bear, Daniels Defense, Colt, FN, Ruger, Sig Saur, Delton. The list goes on it all is a matter of price and preference. So yes I stand by insignificant as there are plenty of companies to fill the void left by them. As far as boycotting damn straight I will till they are owned by someone else.
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So funny they are stopping now after making so much money the 4 years that they have owned it or whatever it is. They bought a bunch of gun companies a few years ago I remember. Don't know the exact extent but they have made a ton of money off ARs.
How is it "funny"? Investors do this all the time. They are not "loyal" to companies. They buy them when there is a profit to be made, and dump them when they feel there isn't. The sad fact of the matter is the risk of them being all but put out of business by our liberal, Democratic government, is one hell of a motivating factor in their decision. Companies who produce AR-15 rifles will be all but worthless if a sweeping ban goes through. And even if it doesn't this time, there will be a next time. You can count on it.
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As far as boycotting damn straight I will till they are owned by someone else.
If this ban goes through, you'll get your wish. They will be put out of business, along with most, if not all of the companies you mention. Then you can throw your party.
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I hope a group of clever young engineers are in a Waffle House somewhere, designing the next industry standard, that Washington can't fit into their D.C. definitions of the Boogie Man du jour...
Make it a good one. Accurate, cheap to operate, buy and shoot and reliable as all get-out, and of course, effective..
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I hope a group of clever young engineers are in a Waffle House somewhere, designing the next industry standard, that Washington can't fit into their D.C. definitions of the Boogie Man du jour...
Make it a good one. Accurate, cheap to operate, buy and shoot and reliable as all get-out, and of course, effective..
Being a cog, or two in that design machine, as I read it and an old hot rod phrase came to mind. You can have it fast, cheap or quick pick any two ;D
Glock raised the bar in firearms development and it has since been raised by other manufacturers. I've seen some interesting ideas on firearm development but its all been tried before. Much like reinventing the wheel, the car or the airplane outside the box isn't even adequate you have to be in a different dimension.
The best hope for what you are looking for are the open source 3D printed guns that are in development which would effectively put firearms in everyone's hands once 3D printers are commonly available. They can't outlaw what doesn't exist until it exist and as flexible as the design process is they would never be able to keep up short of outlawing all manufacturing equipment.
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Being a cog, or two in that design machine, as I read it and an old hot rod phrase came to mind. You can have it fast, cheap or quick pick any two ;D
I can dream, can't I?.. ;)
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It's too bad we can't pool and buy as a group of "Gun Guys".. Make it a retirement fund so Obama would be kicking grandma out on the streets when he took a swipe at it..