The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: alfsauve on December 21, 2012, 07:53:33 PM
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I think the NRA, the SAF and others will put up a good fight. I'm not (or at least I don't think I am) an alarmist or a Chicken Little, but I'll lay out for you one possible scenario on how this might play out. MIGHT.
This is just my crazy ramblings. Maybe I'll remember to revisit this list next year.
What's your scenario in how this will be played out?
1) The "high capacity" issue will come first. They'll propose to ban anything that is capable of holding more than 5 rounds
2) They'll change that to 6 to accommodate most revolvers. (See how compromising we are?)
3) Compromises will change this to semi-autos only.
4) Anti-gun will want to include lever actions.
5) Magazine bans greater than 5.
6) Pro gun sides will push for 10 rounds.
7) Compromise, semi-auto rifle only ban. Add to it magazine feed shotguns.
8 ) Anti's will propose no on-line sales.
9) Compromise on private transfers will need FFL.
(Which brings up questions on how to handle estates, gifts and just letting someone use my gun on the range. Remember it's not the "SALE" but the "TRANSFER" that's regulated.)
10) Anti's will propose to confiscate all existing semi-autos. No-grandfather, no compensation, 30 days to surrender all weapons, and suspend 4th and 5th amendment for confiscation purposes.
11) Pro's will compromise with a year and $100 compensation. The 5th will be salvaged but LEOs will have cart blanche search and seizure based on 4473s ... or any rumor they can come up with.
12) Any mental health history will be added to NICS database. Even if you went in for treatment of compulsive eating disorder.
13) Limit and record all ammo purchases. Primers will be the regulated reloading component.
14) Pro forces will compromise with a .22lr exemption, but users will be limited to 100 rounds per caliber. Certified competitors may have 500 at any one time.
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Yes I do believe there are people who really do want it to unfold just like the bottom picture.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/198518_577492072264143_305160544_n.jpg)
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No, they want body bags.
And they will get them.
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No more imports for sure, likely no more private sale, possibly no more standard capacity mags, (possession a felony)
nothing that looks like a military gun.
To quote Paul Helmke in 94, it's not everything they want, but it's a good start.
I have a counter compromise.
When we repeal the GCA 68 and the NFA we will allow them to keep the reopened Machine gun registry, and dealer licensing.
For now.
I hate to have to ask this Alf but what tipped you off ?
Was it the editorials demanding door to door confiscation ?
We fought a war once for arms stolen from an armory .
What will we do for the ones we've actually paid for ?
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I think they will run into the same prob they did last time. that being it is very hard to pass a law based on type of gun. They will go after evil features. rather or not it will pass is going to down to timing and nothing more.
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I have a counter compromise.
When we repeal the GCA 68 and the NFA we will allow them to keep the reopened Machine gun registry, and dealer licensing.
For now.
That's what we should lay on the table. Repeal every gun control act since 1900.
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I disagree with that, there are some very good laws, like having guns being serialized. Gca 68. lets be clear, there are a bunch of gun laws that are conplete crap, but there are good ones as well. Generally speaking they are over the use of the gun. Not shooting a gun in the air comes to mind.
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I would expect that there will be a mandatory mental health revision out into this, as stated before and above. I would suspect ANY person who has had medication presented for any mental issue or has seeked psychological/psychiatrist assistance for any diagnosed personality disorder will be brought into question.
That is probably the only level of "no grandfathering" that may apply.
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I would expect that there will be a mandatory mental health revision out into this, as stated before and above. I would suspect ANY person who has had medication presented for any mental issue or has seeked psychological/psychiatrist assistance for any diagnosed personality disorder will be brought into question.
That is probably the only level of "no grandfathering" that may apply.
I agree in principle but we need to work on the wording or they will use it deny people who got help for stupid stuff like insomnia, or weight loss.
They already tried to use that as grounds to disarm veterans.
Anything that addressed mental health would need to go beyond simply denying gun rights to the dangerously unstable.
In both of the last 2 cases, Portland Or, and Conn. the shooter used stolen guns .
In China and Japan where guns are no available they use knives, hammers , cleavers, and poison gas.
The answer is not to try to keep these people away from potential weapons, that isn't possible.
We must find a way to keep them away from potential victims.
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We also have to prevent what happen to my great uncle. dieing of colon cancer, in withdrawel from methadone for pain. He said I want to die in the hospital. Some one over heard him and 51 50 (72 psy hold no guns for ever) him. I had to go get his guns before la county destoryed them. what were these evil baby killing devices? a bolt action shot gun and a single shot 22 rifle. he was such a threat to the population and himself...
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I would expect that there will be a mandatory mental health revision out into this, as stated before and above. I would suspect ANY person who has had medication presented for any mental issue or has seeked psychological/psychiatrist assistance for any diagnosed personality disorder will be brought into question.
That is probably the only level of "no grandfathering" that may apply.
Another unintended consequence of including mental health provisions would be that existing gun owners would fear or simply refuse to seek assistance for conditions that have no bearing on ones suitability to own guns. This would be tragic and would leave thousands to suffer needlessly.
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"We fought a war once for arms stolen from an armory .
What will we do for the ones we've actually paid for ?"
Well, Tom, we did indeed. We banded together, formed a well regulated militia and even a funded, regular armyin the 1770's. We did that again in the 1860's, ostensibly for the wrong reasons. The difference today? Who's going to come to your aid, Tom? Who is going to come to mine? Western MD will be a landlocked enclave of 200,000 people, over half of whom will be Tories (i.e. lily livered progressives). So, in today's age, how do we band together? Government is intent on keeping us divided, excluded from major ports of entry, taxed to the point we cannot afford to rebel, restricted in our activities, constantly monitored and outgunned...most definitely outgunned. All in the name of public safety, protection from terrorists, and the common good. Government has successfully and intentionally divided us and we all helped. Soon we will be left with the "pen being mightier that the sword". Really?
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Actually, it' not to different from 1775, most of the colonies were strongly Tory.
Adam's, Jefferson, etc were a small very radical minority .
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Another unintended consequence of including mental health provisions would be that existing gun owners would fear or simply refuse to seek assistance for conditions that have no bearing on ones suitability to own guns. This would be tragic and would leave thousands to suffer needlessly.
I actually believe there should be a mental health evaluation for hoplophobics and that a true liberal hoplophobic should be incarcerated, stripped of citizenship and then deported to the communist state of their choice. An option to remain would be to chose sterilization for their entire family and to renounce government healthcare and social security benefits while promising to spend at least one weekend a month picking up brass at their local range.
I am hoping this time that everything blows over again. If we have another large sensless slaughter in the next couple of months then maybe some of the angst already written in this thread may come true. There's a lot of dimocrats out there that need to feel their job is threatened like it was after Clinton's AWB in the 90's...the memory is short and right now the big drums are the usual crowd of idiots....hopefully there won't be sustained support by the other dims and RINO's.
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After watching gun sales over the past week I'll revise my prediction.
Import restrictions and anything that can be done through executive order or regulatory policy are guaranteed to be tried.
EBR's are probably safe because the are just so darn many of them being bought nowadays, you have to be a dedicated anti or a hard corps Fudd to still believe they have no purpose .
Standard capacity mags are iffy, You can expect to be buried under an avalanche of anti gun propaganda as the dying gun control movement tries to take on new life .
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I'm so P-Oed. Got a notice where the Obama administration is coaxing BATFE into taking off the market, or limiting the supply, of 5.56 NATO ammunition. They are trying to re-interpret the 1968 gun ban laws.
I had an order pending prior to the recent incident with CTD for a can of red tipped Lake city tracers. I checked a bit ago and it is supposed to be in processing. Normally it would have already been shipped. I smell a rat. Bet the price pre-incident won't hold even if I get it at all.
I had to renew my CCW permit last month. And have two suppressors on order. Both in jeopardy.
One of the bigger cities in mid NC ran a front page article entitled "Thousands flock to gun show through protesters". This paper is know for it's editorializing against gun ownership.
Non of the online suppliers of 5.56 or 223 ammo I frequent have any stock of this ammo. The crisis mentality on both sides of the issue have lost it.
As noted earlier in the Obama administration, never let a good crisis go to waste.
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DeltaM, the crisis mentality actually works FOR us.
The anti's are actually a very small minority, IIRC VPC has 25,000 dues paying members.
NRA has about 10 million and rising.
The anti's have the media, when they go into crisis mode it generates a lot of noise but not much else.
The panic buying gives more and more people a tangible cash investment in opposing any new bans or regulations .
In the intelligence field there is a thing called "Blow back".
This is when you put out some propaganda to influence you opponents that winds up showing up in your own news papers or intel reports.
If you look carefully at the sources for most, if not all, anti gun statements you will find that they are badly effected by "blow back".
As both VPC and MB have said we have reached a "tipping point" in the Gun Control debate, the "end game" so to speak.
But , ignore manipulated polls and look at sales, where America has actually been putting it's money for the last several years, now is the time for the gun rights groups to go for the throat and put a final end to this question for the next few generations.
Faint heart ne'er won fair maid . ;D
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Ah, a local guest editorial writer had a different way to attack us.
Just define what constitutes an "assault weapon" and then make them a Title 3, subject to the same transfer/ownership restrictions as machine guns. He's even hinting that some of this could be accomplished by executive fiat instead of the burdensome legislative process.
One point he makes is that Title 3 hasn't been overturned by judiciary and so it would be a fairly "safe" place to "put" the ban. Hinting that a re-institution of the AWB might have judicial problems. I think classifying semi-autos as Title 3 is a risk to the anti-gunners in that it would definitely give rise to judicial review.
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IIRC Title 3 was one of those regulations that politicians justify under the "commerce clause".
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
If we ever get our dander up those are all gone since none of us are " foreign Nations" or " the Indian Tribes;".
They can prohibit NH from imposing a tariff on Vt Maple syrup, they have no authority to say maple syrup can't be sold.
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tombogan,
Hope you are right. The last twenty years has really made me feel politics is an evil game where the few can control the many, laws be damned. Look at Washington DC and the cocaine snorting mayor. Even though there gun laws have been struck down they have just tweaked them a bit to withstand another round of appeals.
In the mean time, prices have gone through the roof. Looks like the herd mentality has a firm grip. Reminds me of the toilet paper and anti-freeze shortage from when I was younger. People were hoarding both to the detriment of those who ran out. Bring in the Sears catalogue from the outhouse.
www.gunauction.com/buy/11630548/ammo-for-sale-hunting-shooting/rifle-ammo/federal-420-rnds-5.56-62-gr.-fmj-stripper-clips
This is almost a dollar a round and climbing
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tombogan,
Hope you are right. The last twenty years has really made me feel politics is an evil game where the few can control the many, laws be damned. Look at Washington DC and the cocaine snorting mayor. Even though there gun laws have been struck down they have just tweaked them a bit to withstand another round of appeals.
In the mean time, prices have gone through the roof. Looks like the herd mentality has a firm grip. Reminds me of the toilet paper and anti-freeze shortage from when I was younger. People were hoarding both to the detriment of those who ran out. Bring in the Sears catalogue from the outhouse.
www.gunauction.com/buy/11630548/ammo-for-sale-hunting-shooting/rifle-ammo/federal-420-rnds-5.56-62-gr.-fmj-stripper-clips
This is almost a dollar a round and climbing
It all comes down to aggressive leadership.
If we charge in now, immediately, we can win all the marbles worth having by letting them keep a few that it's not practical to go for anyway.
Every delay tips the odds in favor of their propaganda machine and raises the question of whether we are even worthy of these rights in the first place.
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We need to stand firm and expect the same from everyone who claims to stand with us. Reasonable gun control laws have never been reasonable and no matter what you giveaway it is a win for them and a loss for us. Gun control laws are like homosexual sex, if you are not bent that way no amount of participation is acceptable, you just get screwed!
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What we giveaway this time is that we don't take it ALL .
We need to rob them, but let them keep their empty wallet.
For now.