The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Knives & Blades => Topic started by: JdePietro on December 23, 2012, 08:04:18 PM
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Talk about 1st world problems :o
So for the last 7 years I have carried and loved a CRKT M16-14ZSF knife.
http://www.crkt.com/M16-14-Z-Desert-Special-Forces-Tanto-AutoLAWKS-Combo-Edge
Today I had to replace the porch roof to my parents home and while I am no carpenter I took on the task as best I could. While using my knife to cut away tar paper from the old roof I dropped it. I just don't want to get into the particulars but I have used this knife as hard as any work knife could be used. The tip has been bent for about 4 years, numerous stains mar the finish and the handle has been chipped away slowly. The Autolawks was smashed at one point and the clip has lost more little screws than I can remember. It actually really kills me to put her to rest but after so long I feel like its time to retire it and move on.
My qualm is that while I loved this knife there were a few things I didn't like.
1. Serrations. I hate them and on a fighting knife they are useless but really they just make any task harder.
2. AUS8 sucks. It bends easily, loses its edge quickly and doesn't clean well. Spoiled cause my dedicated work knife is 154CM.
That is really it on the end of things I didn't like, on the plus side...
1. The "pommel" or ears open the knife like a wave clip on an Emerson knife and they keep your hand from slipping up the blade. In addition to that the little gear cuts shatter tempered glass like you wouldn't believe. As a volly FF this was a great discovery!
2. The bottom of the knife was just flat enough to let you use your palm to really drive in the knife something a lot of knife artist seem to ignore.
3. I like being able to move the clip around. You could put it on either side of the knife for right or left carry and tip up or down. Versatility my friends.
4. CRKT. They are very helpful when the little torq screws get lost and you need extras or if you smash their autolawks system.
All in all I'm having an internal conflict. If they made the same knife sans the serrations and with a better steel VG-10, 154 CM, CTS- XHP or BD1 I would never think of carrying another knife but they don't and I haven't been able to find anything close to it.
So...
Any suggestions?
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Don't get me started on serrations, I have had recent tribulations in that dept.
With you being an FF you have important needs in a knife that I for one would never think of.
Just look at the axes we both would use, I need one with a flat back for hammering tent pegs or driving wedges.
Would not do you any good pulling down burning material .
You're looking for a tool, not a weapon .
The only advice I would offer is to give first priority to others with like needs.
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Don't even look at Cold Steel. All their pocket knives are AUS 8A except for a couple in 4116 stainless.
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Never been a fan of Cold Steel.
You are absolutely correct Tom. I am looking for a tool and in a pinch will made a decent last ditch effort.
So far I have my eye on a Blackhawk Bewharned and a Benchmade 300SSN. Costly but I've spent more on cheap knives that broke.
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If anyone has been following this thread with as much suspense and enthusiasm as I have than your vicarious lives are about to be enriched with some knife goodness...
If you have not been following but want to see knife pictures or at the very least what I decided on just scroll on down to the bottom...
I don't buy things in a flash or out pure enjoyment, not that there is anything wrong with that. Its just that I know that I over think purchases to death, especially if I am going to rely on it for protection or as a hard use tool. In my research to find the perfect knife for me I spent countless hours on YouTube, and various blade forums looking for information on steel, construction and for reviews on particular brands. I even gave the idea of carrying a fix blade a thought or to. My conclusion was this...
Blade steel is said not to matter, after owning 440C, AUS8, VG-10 and 154CM I am going to say what no one will. Steel does matter, in fact its almost as important as picking out a vehicle type ie,. Coupe, Truck or SUV. There are weaknesses and strengths in almost every formula and no one makes steel that really covers everything so you have to know what you are asking of it.
For myself, I wanted a knife capable of cutting tendons at a glance, cutting rope/webbing, small tree branches and twine, opening letters and boxes and one that can be used as an impact weapon if all else fails. What this meant was that I had to sacrifice weight, sharpen-ability, bend-ability and savings. Fact is that while AUS8 and 440 have their short comings, they tend to be cheap, light weight, bendable, and easily sharpened so don't discount them its just they don't fit the roll I have in mind.
So after some reading at Spyderco, Benchmade and BladeHQ's forum I narrowed down my steels. 154CM/ATS-35 , D2 and if I could find one CPM M4 .
154CM/ATS-35 was the American Gold standard in the 90's. It is very stain resistance, light weight, very tough for impact work and holds a great edge. Sharpening usually requires a diamond embedded stone though and the steel is brittle so not a steel I would pry with.
D2 is an air hardened tool steel. Capable of 60-62 Rockwell hardness this is a serious steel for edge retention, toughness and durability. Sharpening is a nightmare so don't let it get too dull, it is not a stainless and will rust so some oil is needed and if weight is a concern look elsewhere.
CPM M4 is very similar to D2 however it has a much higher carbon content. This along with a high vanadium content makes it have better wear resistance and a little bit more stainless at 62-64 rockwell this is the hardest blade steel available. The original intent of this steel was high speed manufacturer applications, it is really made for taking a beating without needing to be dressed as often. However as with all things you pay for the tungsten and vanadium in weight but sharpening it is actually not that bad. Because it is created in a vacuum and of virgin materials it is costly and due to this an availability knife makers just aren't quite going crazy over it.
All that being said now I was onto design and features. After trying to sharpen a tanto for so long I have steadfastly decided to never own one again. About all I can say for it is that they look cool and if the stabby stabby thing is what you seek than Tanto was made for you. I like the Clip, Spear, and Leaf variations myself but most of all I did not want a blade that gave up too much in direction or another. Sheepsfoot was out and Tanto was out anywhere in the middle was fine. Jimping, or some sort of hilt design was a need as I have a weird fear of my hand sliding down the handle and onto the blade. Also as I found out some jimping can be used to break tempered glass what a bonus!!!
Alright, alright I'm getting awfully long winded with this. I hope that perhaps my reasons and thoughts help someone so that is why I put it out there.
Narrowed down to three knives I had these selected:
http://www.bladehq.com/item--Benchmade-Axis-Flipper-Folding--14654
http://www.bladehq.com/item--Viper-Knives-Start-Folding-Knife-w--10227
http://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco-Endura-4-Knife-w--8094
All had pluses and minuses but they seemed to offer what I was looking for. I can't tell you how many times I almost pulled the trigger on the Viper Start knife, really the only thing that stopped me was that I watched a lock back in scouts fail and it cut my scout master bad enough to need stitches. So I guess you could say confidence in that design isn't high with me. The Spyderco had VG-10 which is a good steel in itself but not what I had narrowed my focus on. The price, weight and that little wave feature had me thinking about it. Lastly the brand spankin new Benchmade was just what the doctor ordered. Price was high but the features looked right I thought I was set and then...
Well I went to Cabelas.
I played with almost every Benchmade they had and a few Spyderco's and some Hoag's but I found exactly what I had wanted in a knife. With a gift card and a lucky sale price it came close to what I had wanted to shell out so I brought her home...
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i28/WhiteFeather93/IMG_0099001.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i28/WhiteFeather93/IMG_0100002.jpg)
Oh my a black box???
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i28/WhiteFeather93/IMG_0102004.jpg)
Before you is a Benchmade 810 Contego
http://www.benchmade.com/products/810 < Info
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i28/WhiteFeather93/IMG_0114013.jpg)
At roughly the same size as my CRKT I find the size, heft and feel to be as tailor made for me as a production knife can get. It even has a glass breaker on the bottom. I had not even given this knife a look in their catalog, and after playing with it and the Griptillian for about 20 minutes I knew that it was just the knife I needed to replace my bent and broken CRKT. Best of all was that I found a knife by accident that had CPM-M4!!!
I hope I offered up some information for anyone that read that book and if not I apologize for the quality of the pictures. I will get some better ones in the daytime light later.
Cheers!
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Cool .
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You do realize that knife is advertised here on DRTV Forum page at the top?
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Maybe I'm driving adds, cause I have seen one for Stephen Hunter's book and one for a Sig pistol.
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I've seen Steve Hunters book adertised and some Ruger ads.
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They cycle between those 3 and a Double Star ad
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My computer doesn't display those ads anymore snce I turned on tracking protection. I remember the doublestar ads but not the others.
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Your loss, the Stephen Hunter ad links to 2 short interviews .
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Thanks for that great write up and the thought process you went through. Very helpful to anyone trying to find a the right knife for every day carry (EDC). I really enjoyed reading it!!
Scott
Editor, EDC Knife Reviews
http://www.edcknifereviews.com
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My pleasure. I apologize for the errors, and length. I honestly had a lot more written down about edge type and just thought things were getting out of hand. My analytic nature gets the best of me sometimes.
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UPDATE:
I feel its about time to type out my thoughts on the Contego now that I have carried and used it for sometime and lets be honest, those pictures suck and who doesn't like staring at pictures of knives and guns and naked chicks.
There are some people that believe it takes 10,000 repetitions for something to become muscle memory or instinctual within a person's ability. I don't know how many times I've used my right index finger to pull on the AutoLawks lever and then slide the liner lock but I certainly didn't spend nearly as much time getting used to the Axis lock. I think what Benchmade developed was pure perfection from the gate. The Axis system is quiet, strong and super intuitive. Even my girl friend mastered its use in short order and she is not really interested in knifes at all. To this day she struggles with the liner lock on her Mantis Isosceles. The need to be able to close a blade one handed may be overrated and unneeded but I find myself taking full advantage of the convenience of it. But wait! The Axis doesn't just close the knife, with a little practice you can deploy the knife with the flick of your wrist and little release of the mechanism she'll fly open, just be warned that you must ensure the blade is locked open if you do this.
Enough praise of that, lets get into the meat of the knife. As stated CPM M4 is a magnificent steel! I have cut boxes, pine branches, jeans, wires, vinyl flooring, and steaks since I purchased it and I can still take the hair off my arm with ease. The steel is completely unyielding, meaning it doesn't flex at all and Benchmade did a great job mating it to a super sturdy frame. After using it I figured I would get some play side to side but I am being 100% honest, the lock up on this knife is tighter than a submarine. If there was one disappointment I had it came during a test just to see if I could baton the knife on some logs. The proper way to do this is to place the blade on the log and let the handle rest against the side. She'll do that with ease, in fact the wider parts of the blade lend themselves to this task, but with the lock engaged the handle in line with the knife the vibrations from hitting the blade seem to release the axis lock enough that it will fail. Lesson learned is don't do something you know you shouldn't and use the right tool for the right job.
I bet you want to hear that the handle, clip and scaling have fault, that they have sanded down a wee bit or that they bite too hard. Well, they don't. When you pony up the money for a Wilson Combat or a Ed Brown you get the top quality 1911 you can purchase. When you put out Benchmade money you get a knife that is made with some of the best materials and with the best engineering behind each design. The G10 handles haven't smoothed out or loss their bite and they don't bite too hard contrary to looks. The gimping is perfect on the 420J stainless liners and if I had one complaint, and it shouldn't be a complaint its a compromise I knew I was taking on, its the glass punch. By putting it on the bottom of the knife it nullifies the ability to drive the knife into object with your weak hand palm. Is that a big thing? No, but if I don't give it some criticism you guys will think I'm a Benchmade fan boy that can't be objective.
Truth is I am a Benchmade fan, I love their knives! I think they have a great warranty, they make everything in house, in AMERICA and they offer a great product. Yes it is super expensive as pocket knives go but short of buying a full house custom from some German or Italian boutique knife maker you are not getting a better one. You pay your money and you take your chances, ladies and gentlemen no chance need be had. The Benchmade 810 Contego is a big, heavy knife that will get the job done.
Now for some porn.
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i28/WhiteFeather93/Contegoclosed_zps3b68bde3.jpg) (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/WhiteFeather93/media/Contegoclosed_zps3b68bde3.jpg.html)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i28/WhiteFeather93/contegoopen_zps8b69cf52.jpg) (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/WhiteFeather93/media/contegoopen_zps8b69cf52.jpg.html)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i28/WhiteFeather93/810Contego_zps07da1f49.jpg) (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/WhiteFeather93/media/810Contego_zps07da1f49.jpg.html)
I hope you enjoyed my little review and if you have questions or a specific item that interests you let me know.
Cheers,
JD