The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on December 25, 2012, 04:27:59 PM
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Prayers for those involved.
FIREFIGHTERS IDENTIFIED. FOUR SHOT. TWO DEAD AT HOUSE FIRE IN WEBSTER, NEW YORK.
At the 11:45 AM EST briefing Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering identified the four firefighters shot this morning, including the two who died. All are members of the West Webster Fire Department.
The two firefighters killed are:
Mike Chiapperini, who was also a lieutenant and PIO with the Webster Police Department
Tomasz Kaczowka, also a 911 worker.
The wounded are:
Joseph Hofstetter, also a career firefighter with the Rochester FD (was wounded in the pelvic area)
Theodore Scardino (wounded in left shoulder and right knee)
The gunman, who has not been identified, is dead at the scene from a gunshot wound. It is unclear if he was hit be police gunfire or the wound was self inflicted. A weapon has been recovered.
The call came in at 5:35 AM for a report of a house and vehicle fire. West Webster FD responded with one engine carrying two firefighters. Two other firefighters responded in their personal vehicles. When they arrived they were met with gunfire. Chief Pickering says it appears it was a trap. The firefighters were pinned down but one of the wounded firefighters was able to escape, apparently in his own vehicle.
An off-duty Greece, NY police officer, Jon Ritter, stopped to assist and was wounded by shrapnel.
http://statter911.com/2012/12/24/breaking-news-people-shot-at-fire-scene-in-webster-ny/
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2 things, first off, Why shoot at Firemen ?
What purpose does it serve ?
Even the shooting in Conn showed a certain logic, attacking a bunch of people creates a sense of horror in society, but if they are children the effect is greatly magnified.
They aren't "Authority", they don't give a crap about your driving, as long as it isn't over their hoses .
No one "likes" having the fire Dept show up, but when they do you're damn glad they got there .
So, what's the point in shooting at Fire Fighters ?
My second thing is a gripe about media stupidity and their love of words they think they know the meaning of.
To be strictly technical, no one has been hit by "shrapnel" in almost a hundred years since the specific shell the word refers to went out of use at the end of WWI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Shrapnel
Until the end of World War I the shells were still being manufactured according to his original principles.
There is a looser definition of "Shrapnel" as a type of projectile, it was coined specifically because "Shrapnel" are not fragments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation_%28weaponry%29
A shrapnel shell consists of a shell casing filled with steel or lead balls, with a small explosive charge at the base of the shell and a nose fuse. When the projectile is fired, it travels a pre-set distance before the fuse ignites the explosive charge (often black powder) in the base of the shell. The fuse also typically fractures the nose of the shell to open a path for the balls. Upon ignition, the explosive charge breaks up the shell releasing the balls.[4] These balls continue in a forward 'cone' with most of their energy coming from the velocity imparted by the gun....
The casing of a shrapnel shell does not fragment like a high explosive shell, thus, technically, the balls shot from the shrapnel shell are "shrapnel" whereas the pieces of shattered shell casing of a high explosive shell are "fragments" or "splinters."
Canister, or case shot, Shrapnel, and Fragments are 3 very different types of projectiles.
But the incompetent media would not know that if they were hit with it.
And if there is any one who wants to take issue with me pointing it out they can write their complaint on an AR 15 clip and shove it somewhere dark.
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Unless I am mistaken, this technique of luring in first responders and killing them is a typical terrorist tactic that was employed in Iraq and Afghanistan ( and probably many other places). In this case, one wonders how this terrorist was ever let out of prison or a mental institution in the first place. What kind of judge gives a short sentence for murdering one's grandmother with a hammer? What kind of administration allows that same individual to walk out early for good behavior? Of course, he probably didn't bludgeon anyone in prison and got off on good behavior. No doubt the guards never allowed him to wield a hammer or any other heavy blunt instrument, so good behavior is relative. What the hell were they thinking?
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The story I heard was it was in 1980 so he could have served 30 years and gotton out.
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Here's a link to a news story; say's he served 17 and got out for "good behavior".
Heck, I haven't bludgeoned any one to death in over 52 years, I should get a freaking medal because God knows I'm tempted sometimes.
http://news.yahoo.com/firemens-killer-left-chilling-note-deaths-3-223847945.html
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Spengler had been charged with murder in his grandmother's death but pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of manslaughter, apparently to spare his family a trial. After he was freed from prison, Spengler — a felon who wasn't allowed to possess weapons — had lived a quiet life on Lake Road on a narrow peninsula where Irondequoit Bay meets Lake Ontario.
............................................snip..................................................
The judge and system that let this psycho loose to prey on the public should, but never will, be held accountable for their action.
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Unless I am mistaken, this technique of luring in first responders and killing them is a typical terrorist tactic that was employed in Iraq and Afghanistan ( and probably many other places). In this case, one wonders how this terrorist was ever let out of prison or a mental institution in the first place. What kind of judge gives a short sentence for murdering one's grandmother with a hammer? What kind of administration allows that same individual to walk out early for good behavior? Of course, he probably didn't bludgeon anyone in prison and got off on good behavior. No doubt the guards never allowed him to wield a hammer or any other heavy blunt instrument, so good behavior is relative. What the hell were they thinking?
A buddy I work with took a 1yr. leave of absence from the F.D. in Colorado & took another F/F job after jumping thru all the test hoops & F/F academy in Baltimore City, Md. where his brother worked. He returned after the yrs. leave and had all sorts of stories about getting shot at by the public. They were attacked & beat after responding to an apartment fire on the 2nd or third floor. They were making their way down the hallway to the apt. that was on fire when some of the local sh*t birds came out of the other apts. and started to hit them with sticks/pipes & kick them all in the name of fun for something to do that day ???. They set them up by torching the apt. just for something to do. Yea - things have changed and not for the better, the gene pool has been diluted.
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Some of the locals only see a uniform and equate that with cop. Doesn't matter if we show up in an ambulanambulancce or fire truck, we must be the po-po.
This guy appears to be hiding somethingnd my guess is there was something on the house he didn't want anyone to see so he torched it. When te FD showed up, it wasn't "gone" so he figured he'd shoot at them to keep them away, hit them and realized it was going to end badly and shot himself.
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J read the article, he just wanted to burn stuff and kill people .
Another nut job turned loose on the public .
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It didn't take the media very long to report that his weapon was a Bushmaster:
Spengler was armed with a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle, a .38-caliber revolver and a 12-gauge shotgun, cops said. The Bushmaster rifle used by Spengler is the same make and caliber semiautomatic rifle as the one used in the Connecticut school massacre.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/26/fire-trap-gunman-dead-after-killing-2-firefighters-at-scene-western-ny-blaze/%20?test=latestnews#ixzz2GB03jOoy
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Have you noticed that the media has finally learned what "semi-automatic" means and that they are using that against us? We used to scream "this isn't a machine gun... it's just semi-auto" -- well, now ALL semi-autos are their target. That old adage that goes, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" is certainly true in this case.
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Yes, the article I linked earlier was rather breathless about it having "Flash suppression" too.
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I think I heard a new twist today in that someone is calling for information on gun owners be provided to local police and firemen responding to a fire or disturbance. That means real gun registration in my mind. Some of the local residents at the scene also want to know who has guns in the neighborhood as well. Sorta like the sex abuse registry! Just dial up your address and find out all about your neighbors. Perhaps we should ask for a perp, commie, liberal pinko, socialist registry so we can know who in our neighborhoods are screwing this country up.
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I think I heard a new twist today in that someone is calling for information on gun owners be provided to local police and firemen responding to a fire or disturbance.
Well that's just dumb... what makes them think the bad guy would always set the trap in his own neighborhood?
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JLawson, that doesn't matter to them. They want to reduce the right to bear arms to the level of sex abusers. Every response from local firefighters will have to be accompanied by , or preceded by, the local police to make sure it is "safe". The resultant delay in fire fighting response will infuriate more people into demanding more gun control. And, yes, not every such event will occur in one's own neighborhood, but they will still use that pretext to achieve their aim: disarmament of innocent people who will have no choice but to rely on local police and the police unions for protection. It doesn't matter to them that the result is less protection, like in Chicago. They just want to make people think their way is the only way. Once you agree, it's too late.
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The anti's don't mind random violence.
Many of them preach chaos, they're Anarchists.
They just hate YOU having a gun.
Does any one here know why NY passed the "Sullivan act" that originally prohibited carrying guns ?
Sullivan was a City politician who's "machine", like all Dems in NY , Boston, and Chicago, was composed of local thugs who made sure every one voted "right", when they weren't robbing and stealing .
It seems a bunch of them got themselves shot when intended victims didn't play fare.
So rather than just take their lumps as a professional hazard they had their boyo Sully pass a bill to keep the damn victims in their defenseless place and improve working conditions for the endangered crooks.
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http://news.yahoo.com/ny-woman-arrested-connection-slaying-2-195532926.html
WEBSTER, N.Y. (AP) — A 24-year-old woman was arrested Friday and charged in connection with the Christmas Eve ambush slaying of two volunteer firefighters responding to a house fire in upstate New York.
Dawn Nguyen of Rochester faces a state charge of filing a falsified business record, State Police Senior Investigator James Sewell said. Nguyen also faces a federal charge; a news conference with the U.S. attorney in western New York was scheduled for 4 p.m. Friday.
Sewell said the state charge is connected to the purchase of an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and a 12-gauge shotgun that William Spengler had with him Monday when firefighters Michael Chiapperini and Tomasz Kaczowka were gunned down. Three other people were wounded before the 62-year-old Spengler killed himself. He also had a .38-caliber revolver, but Nguyen is not connected to that gun, Sewell said.
The .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle, which had a combat-style flash suppressor, is similar to the one used by the gunman who massacred 20 children and six women in a Newtown, Conn., elementary school earlier this month.
Nguyen and her mother, Dawn Welsher, lived next door to Spengler in 2008. On Wednesday and again on Friday, shortly before her arrest, she answered her cellphone and told The Associated Press that she didn't want to talk about Spengler. Her brother, Steven Nguyen, told the Democrat and Chronicle newspaper of Rochester that Spengler stole the guns from Dawn Nguyen.
>>>>>>>>>MORE< NOTHING NEW< AT LINK<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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The .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle, which had a combat-style flash suppressor, is similar to the one used by the gunman who massacred 20 children and six women in a Newtown, Conn., elementary school earlier this month.
They had to take the cheap shot, as always.
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They had to take the cheap shot, as always.
Sensationalism is all they know .
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I need one of those "combat-style flash suppressors". It sounds so dangerous. All I have are plain civillian style flash suppressors.
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http://news.yahoo.com/ny-woman-arrested-connection-slaying-2-195532926.html
WEBSTER, N.Y. (AP) — A 24-year-old woman was arrested Friday....
Dawn Nguyen of Rochester faces a state charge of filing a falsified business record,
Just to emphasize a point from another thread. And as the article said there may be federal charges.
And, yes, they may charge her as an accomplice (or conspiracy) with the shootings later, but note the first and primary charge is a paperwork violation.