The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Tyler Durden on January 19, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
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Watch this video, it's only 3 minutes long or so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_ikFlh7n0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This woman, this eye witness, said when she pulled up to school, the black Honda was parked funny and had all its doors open. Then it was strewn all over with black sweatshirts.
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/um50e3b88f.jpg)
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/dk50e3b8b7.jpg)
Where's the sweatshirts?
Why are the doors closed?
I could say more but I will leave it at that.
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I remember seeing one of the guys who was apprehended by police as wearing a black sweatshirt and camo pants. I just tried looking for thst pic and stumbled across this website:
http://www.latenightinthemidlands.com/m/blogpost?id=5685834%3ABlogPost%3A213631
Then I read this part:
One brave teacher, Kaitlin Roig, bundled a bunch of children into a bathroom and locked the door. What’s interesting about her testimony to ABC News is that when police arrived and asked her to open the door, she refused, saying that “if they were really cops, they’d know where to find keys to open the door.” In addition, she requested that they slide their badges under the door.
Now, this is generally a smart thing to do in any and all interactions with the police, especially in the U.S. But to have the wherewithal to do so under such traumatic circumstances strongly suggests that Ms. Roig had logically deduced by that point, that multiple perpetrators, were involved, and that they were either impersonating police officers, or were indistinguishable from SWAT team police commandos, either in the way they dressed, or the way they behaved, upon entering the building.
It also reminds us just how narrow the time window of the actual shooting was. The shooting appears to have barely ended when men knocked on that bathroom door, and told Ms. Roig, they were police.
If that part is true, :o
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(http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/conn.jpg?w=300)
To me at least, that appears to be two black sweatshirts on the ground next to the car, in the no parking zone.
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I guess I'm just talking to myself in this thread. ???
From the link here:
http://newtownbee.com/News/2012-12-27__14-58-27/Police%20Union%20Seeks%20Funding%20For%20Trauma%20Treatment
Scroll down to the very bottom of the page. Last sentence says this:
A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source.
Was that story ever retracted?
From the scanner recordings, it was pointed out several times there two guys. (maybe more)
A teacher inside the school tells the 911 dispatcher she saw two figures running by. The dispatcher calls that out over the radio. The one maybe two cops rolling up onto the scene call back over the radio something like " They are headed our way!". Then later on there is another transmission where the cop says something like "We got them!"
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I guess I'm just talking to myself in this thread. ???
Speaking only for myself, of course, I just can't wrap my head around all of this being staged. That's the story here, right? That Sandy Hook never happened? If this were true, what do you do with 20 kids - send 'em all to live with Grandma? I think that what we have here is testimony to the notion that eyewitness accounts of a traumatic event are almost always inaccurate to some degree. It's like watching a swarm of bees and trying to describe the path of each individual insect relative to the others. Fear, confusion, uncertainty, crying, screaming, yelling, kids running around, terror, denial, gunfire, and panic - all experienced by people untrained to deal with an unfolding crisis - are not things that lend themselves to an accurate and complete observation of events.
As a parent, I cried for the kids... and I cried for the families. And I pray that something like this never happens again. To be completely honest, however, I've moved on. I'm now focused on the struggle ahead, the fight to preserve our rights and our freedoms, the effort to show the injustice of demonizing guns and gun owners. The struggle against evil never ends.
We pray for healing, strength, courage, and guidance - and then we move on.
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I guess I'm just talking to myself in this thread. ???
No, I'm reading it , but since you are my source for this stuff I haven't commented.
I will reply to JLawson though.
J, this administration already smuggled guns to the Mexican drug gangs as part of an effort to undermine the 2nd A.
It was no coincidence that Pelosi and crew picked that particular time to start blatting about the "Iron river" flowing South, or that they used made up percentages they thought would not be debunked .
As for Sandy Hook, do you actually know for sure that any kids actually died ?
This is a question I keep asking, does any one know some one in Newtown who can supply independent verification .
If it did happen there is no reason to believe that it was not carried out by Govt agents .
These are basically the same people who murdered 26 Branch Davidians so that ATF could get a bigger budget share, why would they hesitate to kill another 26 people to gain a major advance in their agenda that they have been pushing for for half a century ?
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I guess I am replying to the thought that this was staged or never happened. I am not saying that or feel that one in the sense. I do believe that there has been coaching before interviews and that the truth in what has happened has been changed.
Do I believe there were more than one shooter. Yes
Do I believe that the real story is not being told because some knew they could use this event to push forward with their life long agendas? Yes
Do I believe actors were brought in to speak for families and that possibly families were bullied into letting these actors speak? Yes.
Did the media and has the media made this worse and set us up for another one happening soon or soon after an Assault Weapons band vote? Yes.
Now to the Aurora shooting. That one is all messed up. From where did the guy get the money to fund he escapade to multiple shooters being witnessed by many with tire marks and blood and gasmask all leading us to know more than one person was helping the guy.
Lastly I believe a tragic event happened in both instances but I dont believe that these were random acts. They were thought out in one case funded and then exploited for a political purpose.
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No, Tom, I can not personally verify that Sandy Hook actually happened. To be honest, though, I can not personally verify most of the news I receive. For example, the story out of Georgia about the mother bravely protecting her twins by shooting an intruder... I can't verify that because I don't know anyone there. As for government agents being responsible, I understand that our government carries out black ops - missions that would make Vince Flynn's stuff look like birthday parties. But if I can't verify that a lunatic killed those people then I sure as heck can't verify that a covert government team did it. All I have is the first paragraph of the statement released by the NSSF:
http://www.nssf.org/newsroom/news/statement.cfm (http://www.nssf.org/newsroom/news/statement.cfm)
We at the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) and the Sporting Arms & Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) have been deeply shaken and saddened by the horrible events that took place in Newtown, Connecticut, our headquarters and home. In a small community there are not many degrees of separation and so, not surprisingly, we had family, friends and acquaintances that were affected. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and the victims of this terrible tragedy.
I understand the significance, the ramifications, of learning what really happened at Sandy Hook. I also understand that IF we ever learn the truth, it will probably be long after our current battle to preserve the 2A is either won or lost.
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The lady in that Video tells of a black Hatchback with Hooded sweat shirted people. Why is no one asking her more about that? That is a HUGE red flag? Who are these people? Where did they come from? the school I am sure has cameras around the outside of the building most schools do. This is actually really big to me. Maybe people think she is making this story up and she well maybe. but then again she might be telling part of the real story.
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Say some group needs a 'mass killing' incident to happen on cue.
They might locate a person who is borderline and will look psycho.
They might snatch that person, killing any witness..like a mother or other relative that happened to be around.
They might then take that person to the place where the crime is to be committed and have their 'team' do the deed...killing any witnesses they can without complicating things.
Then they snuff the person who is to be blamed for the tragedy.
Clean up and leave.
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Say some group needs a 'mass killing' incident to happen on cue.
They might locate a person who is borderline and will look psycho.
They might snatch that person, killing any witness..like a mother or other relative that happened to be around.
They might then take that person to the place where the crime is to be committed and have their 'team' do the deed...killing any witnesses they can without complicating things.
Then they snuff the person who is to be blamed for the tragedy.
Clean up and leave.
Do you believe this is what happened?
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Do you believe this is what happened?
I don't know what to think .
The fact that it happened where NSSF is headquartered just makes me more suspicious.
The lady in that Video tells of a black Hatchback with Hooded sweat shirted people. Why is no one asking her more about that? That is a HUGE red flag? Who are these people? Where did they come from? the school I am sure has cameras around the outside of the building most schools do. This is actually really big to me. Maybe people think she is making this story up and she well maybe. but then again she might be telling part of the real story.
At the time of RFK's assassination there was at least one woman who claimed to have seen a woman in a polka dot dress running from the scene saying "We did it !" Research has shown that the fatal shot hit Kennedy from behind at close range, Sirhan was in front of him, the only one behind RFK was a SF cop .
Tyler has posted stuff that sent me to links that strongly indicate that we don't know the truth about a lot of incidents that have occurred .
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=21592.0
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=21384.msg267895#msg267895
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=21363.msg267713#msg267713
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=21298.msg266998#msg266998
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Do you believe this is what happened?
No, I don't believe it happened. I have no proof of it and no access to the information needed to make that decision.
But, I do believe it is a possibility that explains some of the 'strange' events around this incident.
There just seems to be a lot more loose ends and contradictions in this tragedy than in previous events.
Do I believe this administration is capable of authorizing such acts? Yes.
Do I believe it is the only administration in recent years capable of authorizing such acts? No.
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Granted, this is just some blog site, but it appears that everything is backed up with pics or links:
http://www.insanemedia.net/weapon-inconsistencies-multiple-shooters-ct-cop/283
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I am trying to apply a little common sense to all of this, and that is all I have, a little. If this were some federal government bred conspiracy, then just how many people and organizations need to be in on it to cover tracks? Lots. We're talking federal, state, county, municipal police departments and fire departments. I don't believe the federal government is either that good or that smart to get away with it. I don't believe that all those first responders who got there in minutes would give any conspirators enough time to lay all the right evidence and recover or cover up their own. Then there are the families, whose genuineness can be so easily verified or refuted by other locals who were not part of any conspiracy. Do we pretend that a whole town is implicated in the conspiracy?
What I do believe is this: It really happened along the lines thus far reported. The government and some other authorities (state and local) have only released data that conforms to their vested interests in the event. If we want to investigate such collusion, then follow the money. Some of the local and state authorities can collude with the feds and sudden, unexplained money and equipment transfers will have taken place to support local police, fire and school authorities.
I don't believe that Fast and Furious was as advertised by the government, because it basically involved only them and a few nefarious characters they thought they could control. There they had near total control until the fatal mistake (killing of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry). And that is something to think about when you suspect a total, contrived federal government conspiracy. The feds have hamartia! A fatal flaw that always gives them up in the end. To me, Sandy Hook doesn't smell that way. It was just a convenient excuse to pounce on for something they have always wanted: gun control. So they control the story to their own benefit, but that won't last long either. Remember hamartia; it's the only friend we have.
None of my comments are meant to discourage Tyler from digging up inconsistencies in the government's story. For, it will be those inconsistencies that will make the government's story unravel. Like any liar, they will start telling lies to cover up the lies they have already told.
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Tom
76 Branch Davidians were killed not 26. Janet Reno is responsible for the murder of 23 children in that attack.
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I am trying to apply a little common sense to all of this, and that is all I have, a little. If this were some federal government bred conspiracy, then just how many people and organizations need to be in on it to cover tracks? Lots. We're talking federal, state, county, municipal police departments and fire departments. I don't believe the federal government is either that good or that smart to get away with it. I don't believe that all those first responders who got there in minutes would give any conspirators enough time to lay all the right evidence and recover or cover up their own. Then there are the families, whose genuineness can be so easily verified or refuted by other locals who were not part of any conspiracy. Do we pretend that a whole town is implicated in the conspiracy?
What I do believe is this: It really happened along the lines thus far reported. The government and some other authorities (state and local) have only released data that conforms to their vested interests in the event. If we want to investigate such collusion, then follow the money. Some of the local and state authorities can collude with the feds and sudden, unexplained money and equipment transfers will have taken place to support local police, fire and school authorities.
I don't believe that Fast and Furious was as advertised by the government, because it basically involved only them and a few nefarious characters they thought they could control. There they had near total control until the fatal mistake (killing of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry). And that is something to think about when you suspect a total, contrived federal government conspiracy. The feds have hamartia! A fatal flaw that always gives them up in the end. To me, Sandy Hook doesn't smell that way. It was just a convenient excuse to pounce on for something they have always wanted: gun control. So they control the story to their own benefit, but that won't last long either. Remember hamartia; it's the only friend we have.
None of my comments are meant to discourage Tyler from digging up inconsistencies in the government's story. For, it will be those inconsistencies that will make the government's story unravel. Like any liar, they will start telling lies to cover up the lies they have already told.
Jrlobo, I don't know where to begin. Really, I don't. I appreciate your post. It is refreshing to be able to discuss these things in a civil manner and not resort to personal attacks.
All I can say is that it doesn't pass my sniff test.
False flag attacks have been used before to get the US to go to war, Gulf of Tonkin, the sinking of the Lusitania, the Maine.
The democrats have had anti-gun legislation drafts sitting on the shelf for years just ready to go for the perfect event that they could leverage to get it passed.
As far as how big the conspiracy would have to be, well, the allure of a promotion or for some political figurehead of say the CT state troopers for more power I am sure is intoxicating. Maybe a state trooper gets hired on as the Assistant Under Vice Secretary of Homeland Security. That is the carrot in the scheme of carrot and stick motivation. The stick...well... you only have to google Terrence Yeakey's name to discover what happens to LEO's who don't go along to get along.
Go to this YouTube video, blow it up big screen, and fast forward to the 2:220 mark. Pay special attention to the split screen on the right with the CSI looking guys in their white tyvek suits. It appears to me that one CSI tech has a long gun in his hand, most likely the Saiga shotgun. There is another CSI tech with something long-ish in his right hand as they walk away. Is that another gun? ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R_ubdjO_dRY
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JrLobo , what makes the whole conspiracy thing acceptable is that they have done it before .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
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And fueling all of this is that a judge put a 90 day gag order on all evidence and data relating to the event. Since there is no criminal court case, and will never be one, I wondered under what authority he issued this. Turns out the police got search warrants for even the obvious of sites, like the school, and that the judge can approve a gag order on the search warrants and the results of such to protect the investigation.
No wonder conspiracy theories abound. What are they protecting? Why did they need 90 days. Unless of course it isn't a slam dunk... or...
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go here to this YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBrq8QAAUuI
fast forward to the 2:00 minute mark where the TV reporter is interviewing an eye witness. The eye witness describes him as wearing camo pants and a dark jacket.
Hmmn....Okay, so maybe those other pics of the dark "sweatshirts" near the Honda are actually jackets. ???
If this guy in the dark jacket and camo pants was the same Chris Manfredonia....well, I find it odd for somebody to wear camo pants to build gingerbread houses with his daughter at her school.
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Tom
76 Branch Davidians were killed not 26. Janet Reno is responsible for the murder of 23 children in that attack.
And supposedly David Koresh ate breakfast every day at the same diner in Waco.
Why not arrest him then when he was away from his "arsenal"?
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I am trying to apply a little common sense to all of this, and that is all I have, a little. If this were some federal government bred conspiracy, then just how many people and organizations need to be in on it to cover tracks? Lots. We're talking federal, state, county, municipal police departments and fire departments. I don't believe the federal government is either that good or that smart to get away with it. I don't believe that all those first responders who got there in minutes would give any conspirators enough time to lay all the right evidence and recover or cover up their own. Then there are the families, whose genuineness can be so easily verified or refuted by other locals who were not part of any conspiracy. Do we pretend that a whole town is implicated in the conspiracy?
What I do believe is this: It really happened along the lines thus far reported. The government and some other authorities (state and local) have only released data that conforms to their vested interests in the event. If we want to investigate such collusion, then follow the money. Some of the local and state authorities can collude with the feds and sudden, unexplained money and equipment transfers will have taken place to support local police, fire and school authorities.
I don't believe that Fast and Furious was as advertised by the government, because it basically involved only them and a few nefarious characters they thought they could control. There they had near total control until the fatal mistake (killing of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry). And that is something to think about when you suspect a total, contrived federal government conspiracy. The feds have hamartia! A fatal flaw that always gives them up in the end. To me, Sandy Hook doesn't smell that way. It was just a convenient excuse to pounce on for something they have always wanted: gun control. So they control the story to their own benefit, but that won't last long either. Remember hamartia; it's the only friend we have.
None of my comments are meant to discourage Tyler from digging up inconsistencies in the government's story. For, it will be those inconsistencies that will make the government's story unravel. Like any liar, they will start telling lies to cover up the lies they have already told.
Okay, let me run this past you.
The Obama administration, Leon Panetta, and Hillary Clinton and whoever else sat back and watched the live satellite feed video from the drone hovering over Benghazi.
They watched at least 4 Americans die on live TV, had tons of resources to call in to rescue them or fend off the attack, and yet they did absolutely nothing.
>:(
Obama went to bed and slept like a baby, I'm guessing.
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Explain Whitewater and what happened to all the people associated with the President at that time.
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If this guy in the dark jacket and camo pants was the same Chris Manfredonia....well, I find it odd for somebody to wear camo pants to build gingerbread houses with his daughter at her school.
I don't know about that... I sometimes wear camo pants for no other reason than they happen to be clean. In Florida, it just isn't that unusual for somebody to be dressed in a camo shirt, or pants, or both for no particularly good reason except they were in his closet and they were clean.
Not to be argumentative, but it's just the way it is.
Crusader
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That wasn't argumentative at all. And if you want to, you can be as argumentative as you please, throw in personal insults, pick on my spelling or grammar, or throw other spurious ad hominem attacks at me. Do everything but actually address the "facts", "testimony" , and "evidence". I am used to that by now.
And I have gotten all that from just pointing out inconsistencies or like in this thread how some eye witness story does in fact jive up with what physical evidence I can glean from 1,000 miles away: the black sweatshirts or jackets.
If this guy with the black top and camo pants was just there to build gingerbread houses with his daughter, then surely he wouldn't have minded getting his hands bagged and later wiped for gunshot residue. Or that black top being submitted to the lab to also be checked for GSR, right? His hands and top were checked for GSR, right? RIGHT?!
Newtown seemed to be a ritzier, high rent neighborhood. I think the Lanza house zillow'ed at something like 1.7 million, and MaMa Lanza was reportedly receiving $12,500 a month in alimony/child support. Me? If I were going to the school to build gingerbread houses with my daughter, I'd wear something a little more presentable. But that is just me.
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That wasn't argumentative at all. And if you want to, you can be as argumentative as you please, throw in personal insults, pick on my spelling or grammar, or throw other spurious ad hominem attacks at me. Do everything but actually address the "facts", "testimony" , and "evidence". I am used to that by now.
And I have gotten all that from just pointing out inconsistencies or like in this thread how some eye witness story does in fact jive up with what physical evidence I can glean from 1,000 miles away: the black sweatshirts or jackets.
If this guy with the black top and camo pants was just there to build gingerbread houses with his daughter, then surely he wouldn't have minded getting his hands bagged and later wiped for gunshot residue. Or that black top being submitted to the lab to also be checked for GSR, right? His hands and top were checked for GSR, right? RIGHT?!
Newtown seemed to be a ritzier, high rent neighborhood. I think the Lanza house zillow'ed at something like 1.7 million, and MaMa Lanza was reportedly receiving $12,500 a month in alimony/child support. Me? If I were going to the school to build gingerbread houses with my daughter, I'd wear something a little more presentable. But that is just me.
Yer ugly and yer mother dresses you funny. ;D
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Yer ugly and yer mother dresses you funny. ;D
You should see him before his mother dresses him ;D ;D
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You should see him before his mother dresses him ;D ;D
Are you saying that you see him before he's dressed? EEEWWWWWW
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Where's the coroner's report? In regards to caliber used in regards to the victims.
First reports had the AR left in the car and two handguns.
Than NBC reported 4 handguns and the AR left in the car.
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
Investigation "complex",...... WTF for?
Than the CT State Police said the AR did the majority of the shooting.
Than only a 12 guage was left in the car.
Than a "hunter" was apprehended nearby. Questioned and released. No other follow up.
He was "buzzed" in the door, than he shot through the door.....
He argued days before with school staff.
Really?
WTF is going on?
Were they 10rd CT compliant mags used in the handguns?
How many mags did he have?
Somethings afoot.
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Where's the coroner's report? In regards to caliber used in regards to the victims.
First reports had the AR left in the car and two handguns.
Than NBC reported 4 handguns and the AR left in the car.
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
Investigation "complex",...... WTF for?
Than the CT State Police said the AR did the majority of the shooting.
Than only a 12 guage was left in the car.
Than a "hunter" was apprehended nearby. Questioned and released. No other follow up.
He was "buzzed" in the door, than he shot through the door.....
He argued days before with school staff.
Really?
WTF is going on?
Were they 10rd CT compliant mags used in the handguns?
How many mags did he have?
Somethings afoot.
It could be they are simply adjusting the story to try to fit in the unexpected discovery of facts.
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CT has NO current magazine capacity regulations. They tried and failed to get it out of committee.
Continue with your conspiracy discussion...I find it entertaining! Plausible, yes! Believable, not very!
Carry on...
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Would you have believed it 10 or 20 years ago if some one had told you about life under Obama ?
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All the "news" stories people are posting are from the day of and day after. I understand the police got search warrants for the school the car and the house and asked for a 90 day gag order on anything found. There is no New News.
And this is fueling a lot of the speculation.
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All the "news" stories people are posting are from the day of and day after. I understand the police got search warrants for the school the car and the house and asked for a 90 day gag order on anything found. There is no New News.
And this is fueling a lot of the speculation.
Complete opposite of Colo where we got a run down of every action except when the guy took a dump.
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CT has NO current magazine capacity regulations. They tried and failed to get it out of committee.
Continue with your conspiracy discussion...I find it entertaining! Plausible, yes! Believable, not very!
Carry on...
Hey, if you spotted a retraction in the Newton Bee newspaper about one of the apprehended guys was NOT a SWAT team ninja from another local police department, I am all ears...err ... eyes. If you don't know what I am talking about, browse back through my posts in this thread. You'll see the link to the Newton Bee newspaper.
Or if you have an explanation for the two black jacket/sweatshirt looking things on the pavement next to the car, let's hear it.
If I was shooter number 2, 3, or 4, I'd want to rid myself of my GSR covered disguise/costume/uniform too, before hopping into the get away car. Or at least make it look like I had normal street clothes on if I needed to egress on foot and to better blend into the crowd of arriving and panicing parents before disappearing forever.
EDIT:
Fictional character Sherlock Homes said:
'...when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.'
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I don't read the paper Tyler.
I do know one thing about conspiracies! In order for two people to keep a secret this heinous, you have to kill one!
I seriously doubt that trained men of any but the worst of the worst of humanity, could kill 20 small children in such a way as to create this sensational story. Then to submit that the local PD, state PD and FBI, school district, families, et al are all in on it is scary!
If this is the case, this is a world and society not worth saving!
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It could be they are simply adjusting the story to try to fit in the unexpected discovery of facts.
:o GASP!! THE GOV'T WOULD NOT DO SUCH A THING. :o
OH YEAH, SORRY. JFK, LEONARD PELTIER. RFK. MLK, MALCOM X, JIMMY HOFFA, FAST & FURIOUS, ETC !!
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I don't read the paper Tyler.
I do know one thing about conspiracies! In order for two people to keep a secret this heinous, you have to kill one!
I seriously doubt that trained men of any but the worst of the worst of humanity, could kill 20 small children in such a way as to create this sensational story. Then to submit that the local PD, state PD and FBI, school district, families, et al are all in on it is scary!
If this is the case, this is a world and society not worth saving!
Tim, Nothing you have posted is anything but wishful thinking .
There seem to be an awful lot of items to make you say "WTF ?".
I'm not even going to concede that it actually happened until I've got some kind of outside verification , such as some one posting that their cousins wife's barber lost a child .
What I'm getting at is we have ONLY the media story, no hear say, verification , nothing .
The only thing we're hearing outside the media are the anomalies .
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Well Tom, I am hopeful that such wickedness doesn't exist but I certainly can concede it might.
I don't like misinformation any more than the rest of you! I also don't care to read the drivel that exists in every corner of the blogosphere about everything from JFK to Yoda either!
BTW, Yoda was gay! ;D
Today, the CT SP issued a statement concerning the what and where part of the question on the Bushy rifle, Sig and Glock handguns and Saiga shotgun retrieved from the trunk of the car. The rest is still being kept close to the vest! The remainder found on the web is speculation from folks trying to read between the ever fuzzy lines from a media that is obviously slanted in the direction of deceit.
Remember, I lived in CT for 18 years. It is not, for the most part, an "anti-gun" state! In fact, that part of CT is still the main home of several firearms manufacturers and support companies. Everyone I knew in those 18 years, shot, hunted and generally were gun people! I would find it more plausible if this occurred in Walthham or Newton, MA where real, bone fide liberal assholes reside!
I still find it difficult to swallow and entire communities conspiracy in this terrible event! I hope I'm not proven wrong but like most things of this nature, we never really know the truth.
Note to Tyler,
I'm not denying that the information you've drudged up is not curious, even damning! I'm just really skeptical of literally EVERYTHING I read on the web!
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"that part of CT is still the main home of several firearms manufacturers and support companies. Everyone I knew in those 18 years, shot, hunted and generally were gun people!"
That's part of what makes me suspicious . Isn't NSSF headquartered in Newtown .
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"that part of CT is still the main home of several firearms manufacturers and support companies. Everyone I knew in those 18 years, shot, hunted and generally were gun people!"
That's part of what makes me suspicious . Isn't NSSF headquartered in Newtown .
Yes!
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I think I wrote this before but maybe someone could clear it up for me. In a small town like this when a horrific or major crime happens the Feds take over everything right? They pretty much give the local police what they see fit to give them as in access to the scene and evidence. And basically that is for news purposes right? If I'm wrong tell me. If they both do independent studies on how events take place I'd like to know.
Also it's a small town so who's medical examiner was used. I know if I saw 20 kids shot I would be a little dingy for a few days after but don't you think on a case this sensitive they would have multiple opinions and Drs examining the bodies to determine exactly what happened. How can he know what .223 wound looks like on a child if he has never seen one. Don't you have to why a second opinion when you are dealing with something you are not an expert on yet are signing off as one? That guy was out there in that interview.
Where are the video camera for the school. I went to a crappy public school in the late 90's early 2000 and they had them all over. We all wondered if they worked but they were hanging all over.
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Ksail,
I can only answer part of your question! The CT State Police probably have the lead here and have one of the preeminent forensic experts in the world on their staff, a Dr. Henry Lee. You may be too young to remember, but he was even part of OJ Simpsons trial. He basically wrote the book on forensic pathology.
http://www.drhenrylee.com/about/
The Feds don't really have jurisdiction unless the CT SP has relinquished their rights to the case. So far, that hasn't been indicated!
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Murder is not a federal crime, it falls under State jurisdiction, that's why they had to ship Whitey Bulger back to Boston to try him .
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This is what the Blaze has to say .
I'll stand by my question "Does any one have verification from a nonMSM source" .
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/23/this-is-theblazes-point-by-point-sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory-debunk/
Was Adam Lanza really the only shooter at Sandy Hook Elementary School? Why are there supposed inconsistencies surrounding the weapons that were used during the attack? And are some of the parents really “crisis actors” brought in to make the situation that much more believable?
Those are only a few of the questions that have been posed by conspiracy theorists who have used the Internet to virally spread their doubt about the horrific massacre that unfolded in Connecticut on Dec. 14.
The main crux of the arguments presented in documentary-style videos is that the Sandy Hook massacre is either a government-planned hoax intended to lead the nation to overwhelmingly embrace increased gun control measures. Or, at the least, those who have put the videos out believe that essential information is being withheld from the American public surrounding multiple shooters and other game-changing elements. The motivations of those who have created these theories are difficult to pin down, as most are spouting their views anonymously.
A video documenting purported inconsistencies surrounding the tragedy that killed 20 children and six adults inside the school has gone viral, gaining more than 11 million views in just two weeks. And a follow-up “documentary” has also been released, adding further “evidence” to the claim that the event either didn’t unfold at all or that it happened contrary to the media narrative that has been advanced.
To most people, the idea that any of it is true is repulsive. So we decided to visit the most popular of the theories and break them down in a point-by-point debunk.
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In addition to questioning the official account of weapons used and whether or not crisis actors were employed by the government, theorists have taken aim at parental reaction to the shootings and have claimed that memorial pages for the victims were published before the shooting took place. And these notions only scratch the surface that is the bizarre world of Sandy Hook Trutherism.
The shadowy individual behind the first video, entitled, “The Sandy Hook Shooting – Fully Exposed” (30 minutes in length), weaves together sparse details and attempts to poke holes in the overall story. As for the first video, Snopes.com, a web site known for debunking untruthful information, dismissed it as “a mixture of misinformation, innuendo, and subjective interpretation.” You can see the clip here:
The second part of the Truther initiative, titled, “Sandy Hook Fully Exposed” (19 minutes in length) tackles similar themes, builds upon the first video and attempts to defend those individuals who are questioning the details associated with the event. In addition to asking a variety of questions about family members who lost children, the videos even devote time to questioning whether “crisis actors” were brought in to speak with media in the wake of the attack. See Part II, below:
“Isn’t something like Sandy Hook just what the government needs to start disarming the public so they don’t have to worry about people being a threat to them anymore?,’ text embedded in the video reads.
TheBlaze has decided to go through both videos to provide you with a recap of the major points that Truthers are raising. In addition to presenting the arguments that those perpetuating an alleged hoax are positing, you’ll see reasonable explanations that essentially debunk their claims and questions. In any crime scene – especially one as traumatic and dramatic as what unfolded at Sandy Hook – information flows quickly and it isn’t uncommon for incorrect details to make their way into media. This, as you will see, is the case when it comes to numerous elements surrounding this tragic shooting.
THE MAN IN THE WOODS & ADDITIONAL SHOOTERS
Sandy Hook Truthers have spent a great deal of time and energy reporting about a man who was allegedly chased in the woods nearby the school; the individual was subsequently apprehended and the entire spectacle is captured on video — footage that is now being used to advance the idea that there was another shooter. The first “expose” shows media interviews with witnesses who claim to have seen this individual in handcuffs following the incident. If it is true that there was more than one shooter, this would obviously turn on its head everything that has been said about a lone murderer (i.e. Lanza).
The man in the woods, though, isn’t the only theory about additional shooters floating around. Additionally, others claim that there were two men who fled the scene in a van. Initial media reports did say that there may have been more than one shooter involved, but as the details came in and the events were clarified, Lanza was the only gunman named and the evidence cleared every other initial suspect.
While conspiracy theorists continue to question where these additional suspects are and why the media has allegedly failed to report about them, there are some pretty convincing counter arguments and debunks surrounding this matter.
The Newtown Bee, a local outlet, reported that a law enforcement official told them that the man seen in the woods had a gun and was nearby the school. He was apparently an off-duty tactical squad police officer from a nearby area. Also, Chris Manfredonia, the father of a 6-year-old student at the school, was handcuffed briefly by police after he ran around the school in an effort to find his daughter. And another unidentified man was briefly detained, but later released when he was found to be an innocent bystander, Snopes.com claims.
Those being interviewed by media likely saw one of these individuals, leading Truthers to suspect something sinister. Lt. Paul Vance, a media relations representative with the State of Connecticut, dismissed the notion that there were other shooters, while also highlighting and confirming the fact that authorities did end up detaining and quickly releasing other individuals.
“Were there other people detained?,” Vance rhetorically asked. “The answer is yes. In the height of the battle, until you’ve determined who, what, when, where and why of everyone in existence…that’s not unusual.”
THE WEAPONS USED INSIDE THE SCHOOL & THE VICTIMS’ BODIES
Another point of contention that Truthers seem to be focusing upon is the weapons that Lanza used in committing his crime. In the first video, the narrator claims that, according to media, three guns were found at the scene (two handguns and one assault rifle). Four handguns were also allegedly found inside the school. The inconsistency here comes from the Dr. H. Wayne Carver II, the chief medical examiner, who said following the incident that the assault rifle appeared to be responsible for the children’s deaths.
Here’s why Truthers are jumping all over the claims surrounding the assault rifle. The first video alleging a hoax claims that this particular weapon was later recovered from the trunk of the car that Lanza was driving. If this is the case, then critics are questioning how Carver’s claims could be possible. The shooter clearly couldn’t have used the assault rifle to commit his crimes if the weapon was in the trunk of the car the entire time.
But there’s an understandable answer here as well. A few days after the attack, clarity surrounding the guns finally emerged. Lanza left a shotgun in the car, but he had three other weapons that were brought into the school – a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle, a Glock 10 mm and a Sig Sauer 9 mm (the latter two are handguns). The fourth weapon – the shotgun – was left in the vehicle’s trunk. Carver was correct in making his claim that it was the AR-15 that was responsible for the children’s deaths – a firearm that was not in the trunk as the first video indicates (CNN actually has a great primer on the weapons that expounds upon this in detail).
While we’re on the subject of Carver, it’s important to dispel another rumor – that the parents never saw their children’s bodies. While they did not identify the bodies in their entirety, pictures of the kids’ faces were provided to the families. This wasn’t done to be sinister or to hide details; quite the contrary, the doctor was trying to spare the families the pain of seeing the horrific injuries the children sustained, so photos of their faces were used instead.
SCHOOL NURSE’S ALLEGED CLAIMS ABOUT THE KILLER’S MOTHER
Andrea McCarren, a reporter for WUSA, reported in the wake of the killings about a conversation she had with Sally Cox, the Sandy Hook school nurse. Cox, who McCarren described as “fairly traumatized,” apparently told the reporter that she knew the killer’s mother, a kindergarten teacher at the school. Initially, media reported that Lanza may have been the son of a teacher, but this was soon dispelled.
Truthers are questioning this story, though, obviously wondering how McCarren was given information about the killer and his mother that ended up being entirely untrue (they argue that the school nurse should have had the information correct and that her mention of a teacher at Sandy Hook is curious, especially considering the details we now know).
During McCarren’s report, the journalist also said that the nurse expounded, claiming that Cox said that the kindergarten teacher was kind and exactly the person one would want his or her children to spend time with. Snopes notes that the USA Today also “mistakenly reported…that Nancy Lanza” was a teacher at the school. Perhaps this report and McCarren’s were based on the same misinformation.
Some have also claimed that Cox is also not a registered nurse, but her real name is Sarah and a search of that name does, indeed, yield results that show that the woman is a registered nurse in the state’s registration system. Since “Sally” isn’t her birth name, it’s obvious that a license attacked to that name isn’t available in the Connecticut database (see above).
ROBBIE/EMILIE PARKER & LYNN/GRACE MCDONNELL
Emilie Parker, one of the 20 children killed at Sandy Hook, is a central character in Truthers’ questioning, as they throw a number of theories about her very person and her family’s reaction to her death into the mix. In addition to claiming that the young girl was Photoshopped into at least one family image, those questioning official accounts claim that her father, Robbie Parker, can be seen getting “into character” before a press conference — something they dismiss as proof that he may, indeed, be acting or playing the role of a grieving father.
This latter accusation relies upon footage of Robbie purportedly laughing before a press conference. In the clip, he can be seen smiling, taking a moment to compose himself and then allowing emotion to overtake him. “How many parents are laughing and joking a day after their first child has been shot,” a text message reads across the screen in the first hoax video. Later, the words, “I smell B.S.,” are added to describe the father’s reaction.
The video also claims that Parker wasn’t in her class photos and that she appears in images with President Barack Obama following the shooting (something that obviously wouldn’t be possible had she been killed during the incident). But the below video explains that the little girl shown in the image is one of Emilie’s sisters, not the young girl who perished just days before:
At least one other parent was targeted for the same reason – for appearing too chipper in the wake of losing a daughter in the horrific incident. Footage of Lynn McDonnell, mother of a child named Grace, came under scrutiny after the parent spoke with CNN’s Anderson Cooper about her immense loss. While remembering her young child, she expressed facial expressions of joy. However, considering the content of her commentary (she was remembering her young child) it seemed entirely appropriate (in fact, TheBlaze covered the inspirational interview when it aired in December).
CHILD SECURITY EVENT PLANNED FOR DEC. 14
Those embracing the notion that Sandy Hook was a hoax also question an event that was put on by the Division of Emergency Management and Homeland Security (this department falls under the state’s Division of Emergency Services and Public Protection). This particular event was purportedly planned before the shooting and aimed at helping explore strategies for protecting kids in the result of emergency situations like what happened that same day at Sandy Hook.
This event did occur, but it isn’t as surprising as some might assume. On the surface, it may seem odd that the FEMA class, called “Planning for the Needs of Children in Disasters,” was offered on the same day that Sandy Hook unfolded. But this course was also offered six additional times in the state of Connecticut during November and December. It wasn’t a rare occurrence only planned on the day of the shooting; it was an event that had been repeatedly held within the state’s boundaries during recent days and weeks.
MEMORIAL PAGES & ASSOCIATED INTERNET TIMESTAMPS
The Truthers are particularly fired up about various memorial pages and social media initiatives that they claim were created days before Lanza’s crimes at the elementary school. In addition to teacher Victoria Soto’s Facebook memorial page, which they claim was created on Dec. 10, four days before the shooting, the individuals behind the video and movement also point to a GoFundMe initiative, among others, as also having timestamps that precede the event.
Inquisitr explained how the Internet, despite being quite advanced, still has its hiccups. Here’s a brief recap that explains some of the reasons behind date stamps seeming incorrect on various posts and web sites:
To understand the Sandy Hook websites that seem to have been published early, you must first understand the way the internet reconciles dates as well as how Google crawls them. If a page is repurposed to host other information than it originally displayed, it may show up as having been “published” earlier.
Further, servers and sites often have incorrect dates. Having used a number of WordPress panels in my career, it is a job to keep track of where dates and times are set in order to avoid publishing in the past when scheduling a post, something that could be at play and an easily explainable factor not often acknowledged by Sandy Hook truthers.
And given the fact material can run afoul on an individual computer, a site’s panel and then a search engine, sites like the United Way’s Sandy Hook page could easily register as a prior date on Google.
When it comes to Google results – another target the Truthers point to – the Internet giant isn’t always correct. Sometimes, search results have the incorrect dates associated with them, clearly a factor that is overlooked in the conspiracy theory videos. As for the web sites that seem to have an earlier date stamp, another theory is that certain donation and Facebook pages that were created for other reasons were edited and amended to assist with Sandy Hook efforts following the shooting. While they retained their earlier creation date, their intended purposes changed.
TheBlaze spoke with Justin Basch, CEO of Basch Solutions, a web site production company. The tech expert dismissed conspiracy theorists’ claims, calling them “nonsense.” He explained the many ways that dates can be manipulated in WordPress (the platform running at least one of the web sites at the center of the debate).
“It’s very, very easy to manipulate a date that content was published — whether it’s through text, whether it’s through date manipulation, etc.,” Basch explained.
Need to cut this into 2 posts due to length
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THE SYMPATHETIC AND HELPFUL NEIGHBOR: GENE ROSEN
Then there’s Gene Rosen, the neighbor who lives nearby Sandy Hook. He began appearing in media immediately following the shooting, telling of his involvement in housing six children who had escaped the school that fateful morning. Rosen has been interviewed numerous times by the mainstream media and he has explained how he entertained the children inside of his home after they fled the school in terror.
The Truthers, though, claim that Rosen’s story has some troubling inconsistencies. Among them, they charge that he is a member of the Screen Actor’s Guild (SAG), a professional union of acting professionals (thus, advancing the theory that he might be a crisis actor). They also claim that Rosen’s story about discovering the children in his driveway changed and evolved during various appearances. While in some interviews he described the six kids sitting with a female bus driver, in at least one other account, he described a male adult talking harshly to the children, the video proclaims.
Additionally, Rosen, a retired psychologist, told reporters that the children told him their teacher, Ms. Soto, was dead. Initially, some media reported that only one child escaped the classroom where the majority of the kids perished, but this ended up not being the case (others seemingly escaped as well). Rosen also said in one interview that he saw the list of victims not long after the shooting, but conspiracy theorists claim this isn’t possible, as it wasn’t released until after the time he claims to have seen it.
A list of casualties, though, was released the day after the shooting and, as Snopes documents, the Gene Rosen who is a member of SAG is a different individual – one who has never lived in Connecticut. The retired psychologist at the center of this particular case has always lived in the state (while both are in their 60s, the actor is 62 and the Newtown resident is 69).
LANZA’S VEHICLE ON THE DAY OF THE SHOOTING
In the second video, which spent some time defending Truthers against attacks, an bizarre claim is made about the vehicle that Lanza drove to Sandy Hook on Dec. 14. While it has been widely reported that the car belonged to his mother, whom he also shot dead before heading to the school that morning, hoax theorists believe that the car is registered to a man named Chris Rodia.
While it may be tempting for those looking for holes in the story to wonder if Rodia was complicit in helping Lanza with the attack, Snopes.com debunks this, claiming that Rodia was pulled over at a traffic stop and, thus, ended up being named on a police scanner. Salon recaps how this particular element of the story was debunked:
This one was debunked by the theorists themselves just a few days after the shooting. Blogger Joe Quinn obtained the police audio, which definitively debunking the myth. (Rodia appeared on the scanner because he was getting pulled over in a traffic stop miles away, but his license plate doesn’t match Lanza’s car). “This was a huge blow, because lots of people were making big leaps on this … but we now have to look elsewhere,” another amateur investigator said on YouTube.
To clarify: Rodia is not a suspect and he did not own the car that Lanza drove to the school, as the video seems to allege. Rodia was also not at the school at the time of the shooting. Snopes claims that “he was driving a different vehicle in another town at the time.”
CRISIS ACTORS DEPICTED IN MEDIA
Truthers’ have gone out of their way (there’s even a disclaimer at the start of the first video) to claim that they are not trying to dismiss the event as though it never happened. Instead, they say that they are merely asking pertinent questions and, in a sense, exercising their civic duty as caring and in-tune Americans (a tactic likely being used to separate themselves from the criticism being thrown their way). Among those curiosities, a consistent theme emerges: The idea that crisis actors were used.
We already covered Rosen and the theory that he is one of these individuals. But there are others who are being dubbed potential crisis actors. One couple in particularly has come under scrutiny. CNN interviewed Nick and Laura Phelps, parents of two children at Sandy Hook Elementary School. In the exchange, Nick becomes emotional while describing the principal at the school as “a very special person.” It’s clear that the family was impacted by what unfolded.
But Truthers question the motivations, sincerity and identity of Nick and Laura, claiming that they may actually be Richard and Jennifer Sexton, two actors from Florida. This bizarre claim — that the couple was brought in to merely depict parents who have children at Sandy Hook Elementary, is one of the more curious ones being floated. The evidence being posited?
The hoax video shows images from an alleged Picasa account belonging to Richard and Jennifer (the actors). Those who believe that something isn’t quite right about Sandy Hook claim that the photo album was deleted after it gained attention. In addition, Truthers are using a clip showing Laura (or Jennifer) giving what appears to be an audition or performance.
But Snopes claims that the husband and wife duos merely resemble one another and that they are not, in fact, the same individuals. While the videos seem to indicate that there may be a connection between the Crisis Actors company – a group that provides actors to simulate traumatic and disastrous events, there is no connection between the actors provided by the group and the individuals shown in media interviews. Plus, a simple web search shows that the family does, indeed, live near the school.
Crisis Actors (the company) also makes it clear that its performers do not engage in real-life events. While the video alleges connections between the Sandy Hook families and these individuals, no such connections exist. In fact, the company has gone out of its way to dispel such rumors.
See Anderson Cooper address some of these controversies:
UNDERSTANDING THE VIDEOS AND THEIR CREATOR
While the conspiracy-laden clips have intrigued some, others find themselves completely horrified, sickened and offended by their contents — especially considering the pain that the families of Sandy Hook victims have already endured. Following the publication of the first video, reaction and media coverage was swift. As noted, the creator of the videos made it a point to vehemently defend himself against critics.
“This video was made to clear up confusion and shed light on new information. Apologies to anyone offended by the past videos,” a caveat at the beginning of the second clip reads. “[W]e hope this one is easier to digest. Would you rather be hurt temporarily by the truth, or comforted forever by lies?”
Later, the anonymous individual behind the clips claims that it is unfair for critics to label him and others supporting his ideas as “Truthers” – or even “conspiracy theorists.” Such labels, text embedded in the video reads, implies that those questioning the event are “over the top, crazy, and against everyone else.”
“These are millions of everyday people that deserve answers to their questions,” the text continues. “And it seems by labeling them like that, it’s easier to dismiss them and not have to look at the facts.”
However, those looking to debunk the Sandy Hook debunkers would dismiss these views as fringe. Even the person who created, “The Sandy Hook Shooting – Fully Exposed” and its companion video was surprised by its viral nature. In an interview with Gawker before the video released, he seemed surprised by its viral nature, telling the outlet that he would have “spent more time on it” if he knew it would be so popular. TheBlaze reached out to him to get further comment, but we did not receive a response.
“t all started when me and my friends used to research 9/11 in high school,” said the source, who refused to identify himself to Gawker. “That’s what really got me started when it came to researching government cover ups…Once I learned about all the false flag attacks in history that have been proven to be true, I knew it was only a matter of time before another came a long.”
Apparently, in the mind of the individual behind the videos (which were published on a YouTube channel under the account ThinkOutsideTheTV), Sandy Hook was next in this purported line of government cover-ups. The individual went on to tell the outlet that he felt as though the event was “too perfect” and that the people and the town involved had an “artificial vibe about them.”
OTHER THEORIES
Since Sandy Hook unfolded, other conspiracy theories have emerged, although the aforementioned YouTube clips have become the most pervasive and widespread. TheBlaze already told you about James Tracy, a communications professor at Florida Atlantic University (FAU), and his controversial comments about the Sandy Hook massacre.
Tracy, too, appeared on radio interviews, where he advanced the crisis actor angle, claiming that the Obama administration might have deployed these individuals to stage the attack in an effort to further crack down on guns. On his personal blog, he cited InfoWars.com as well. Later, he clarified his comments, claiming that while “one is left with the impression that a real tragedy took place,” images and information have been withheld from the public.
The entire ordeal, which captured national attention and was covered by TheBlaze earlier this month, led FAU to separate itself from Tracy’s comments. Lisa Metcalf, director of media relations, said, “James Tracy does not speak for the university.”
In the same Blaze report, Jason Howerton covered Dr. James H. Fetzer, a professor emeritus at the University of Minnesota Duluth (UMD). In an op-ed published in an Iranian (state-owned, of course) outlet, he charged that, perhaps, the Mossad (Israeli security forces) were responsible for the attack.
“The killing of children is a signature of terror ops conducted by agents of Israel,” he wrote. “[W]ho better to slaughter American children than Israelis, who deliberately murder Palestinian children?”
These, of course, of just two of the numerous alternative conspiracy theories being floated. There are plenty of other ideas that have circulated since Dec. 14. However, the growth in popularity of the latest videos creates some serious questions that deserve to be answered in order to properly educate readership.
At least one father of a first-grader at Sandy Hook took the issue to heart, showcasing his frustration in an on-air phone call that was placed to radio host Glenn Beck. The father, named “Pete,” expressed his dismay at the conspiracy theories, calling Trutherism an “unimaginable way to even look at a tragedy or horrific event.”
“I was there. I’ve been to the funerals,” he told Beck. “I know the families very closely. I know a lot of those children. It happened. It really happened.”
But if thats not convincing enough, consider BuzzFeed’s logic: ”The evidence on which these budding theories are based is, even by the standards of fringe conspiracy theory, remarkably thin, and demand massive collusion between hundreds of private citizens, the federal government, local authorities, and the news media.”
While the viral nature of the videos has begun to simmer, the mainstream media has not provided a level of coverage that would disseminate the truth fervently enough to dispel the rumors. Setting the record straight and showcasing the truth, though, is essential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>VIDEOS AND PHOTO"S AT LINK <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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I keep wondering about Tyler's question about the black shirts (?) on the ground and postulation that other co-conspirators dropped them to look normal during their getaway. If this is a government conspiracy they wouldn't need to do that. Besides, why leave your DNA behind to be easily traced.
I still believe the government is releasing "facts" to support their own desires, but it stops short of a total "Wag The Dog" scenario.
Thanks, Tom, that was a lot of work on your part. We may never find out the whole story here.
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Did I post this video yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ubdjO_dRY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Blow that up to full screen, fast forward to the 2:20 mark.
There is one CSI tech who you can see turning away from the trunk with the Saiga in his hands.
Okay?
But then there is a CSI tech with something also in his hand(s), but I cannot make out what it was/is?
Is it another gun?
Is it something else like a gun case or cardboard box?
I am still curious about the car and its doors being closed especially when that witness said the car had all its doors open and black sweatshirts were strewn about?
Strewn about how? One sweatshirt hanging on each open door?
Granted it was on a blogger site, but this one gal asks about another light green-ish car having bullet holes in it. Where were those bullets fired from? According to this female blogger, none of the classroom windows on that side have bullet holes???
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It could be they are simply adjusting the story to try to fit in the unexpected discovery of facts.
Part of the SCAME model for conducting a psy ops is Effect. You have to measure what the effect is of your particular operation. You want to measure its effectiveness. It is a feedback loop of sorts.
So how do you measure the effectiveness of your anti-gun agenda?
Polling
Whitehouse.gov petitions
Comments on news articles
Comments on gun forums
Google search trends
Facebook posts
Emails and letters sent to legislators
twitter
Float a story out there, see how it trends, change the story, see how that trends. If the second story is trending worse, change the story again. Then adjust "facts" to suit what is trending best.
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While anything is possible, do you really think our government has the capability of pulling off a conspiracy of this magnitude? Think about it realistically for just a minute. This is the same government who got caught trying to pull off Watergate. Which was nothing more than a bungled hotel room break in. It happens successfully every night of the week in hotels across America. Usually by idiots looking for their next drug fix. This is the same government that got caught feeding weapons to the Contras. This is the same government that got caught trying to undermine Second Amendment rights by letting illegal straw purchasers walk from Arizona gun shops with as many as 20 AK-47's in one purchase, not thinking it would cause any concern.
Now, all of a sudden this same government has this magical ability and talent to fake Moon landings, attack ourselves on 9/11, and to frost the cake and light the candles.......Fake a grade school attack, along with the deaths and funerals of 20 kids involving hundreds of family members. And possess the ability to pull it all off without a hitch??? That's giving a lot of credit to a government that can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. I'd put more money on a street gang burglarizing Fort Knox.
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While anything is possible, do you really think our government has the capability of pulling off a conspiracy of this magnitude? Think about it realistically for just a minute. This is the same government who got caught trying to pull off Watergate. Which was nothing more than a bungled hotel room break in... ...This is the same government that got caught feeding weapons to the Contras. This is the same government that got caught trying to undermine Second Amendment rights by letting illegal straw purchasers walk from Arizona gun shops with as many as 20 AK-47's in one purchase, not thinking it would cause any concern.
Just to add one more observation to BillT's excellent post... This is the same government whose "Chief Spy," David Patraeus, couldn't keep his extra-marital affair secret. The Chief of the CIA... Busted in "Bimbo-Gate." If the guy who knows better how to do clandestine ops better than anyone else can't keep an affair secret, how could anyone think that... Sheesh. This kind of stuff drives me up the proverbial walls...
It is simply illogical to assume our government could pull off anything of this magnitude and keep it secret. At least some of the participants would go public for their own 15 minutes of fame.
Discharged weapons at gun shows (with a government connection) to strengthen the cause of gun banners? Plausible, but only because the perpetrator would be one person acting alone.
But the murder of 26 possibly imaginary people with actors playing their parents and friends? Nah! Cover up requires complicity of too many uncontrollable elements.
This atrocity was orchestrated by a disturbed freak, acting alone, doing heinous, unbelievably evil deeds. And while that was an awful lot, that's all it was. To try and make it more than this through advancing some incredibly unlikely conspiracy theory approaches delusional behavior.
Crusader
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Bill. I don't think they did the whole thing. But I do feel the wound the toy and let it run. Like in the Aurora Colorado shooting I truly believe there was a second person involved. Too much evidence supports it along with a large sum of money that had to be established up front to by all weapons and ammo. Plus gas masks cs gernades and everything else.
So what I mean by it all is tragic events accrued but the exact truth or the truth that is in the evidence is being released at will and not entirely. It is being filtered to fit an agenda. There are facts being left out, muddled, and lied about and then explained simply as caught in the moment when they are shown to be false. I believe there has been coaching of the families of the police chief and others before interviews to help steer them in a direction. I believe this Lamza guy had help. There is no way I would let a guy in the school which they said had to happen for him to enter looking bulky and carrying a rifle. Which must of happened. And grusome as it may be why have they not at least released the video of him entering the school. It's like the 2 frames cut from the pentagon video during 9/11 and all video in the area being confiscated and those that saw it sworn to secrecy under punishment by the highest degree. What's in those 2-3 frames. What will we see in those 2-3 frames and what will we see at the school in those videos. You would think the easiest thing to get right in this case is the number of guns and guns used and or found that day from the people in field wearing camo to the ones at the school. That can't even be determined. With the round counts for each gun changing consistently to fit the AWB/mag ban. It was a Glock no it was a shot gun no it was an AR that has changed by who's mouth is on stage spitting their venom.
So no I don't thing the government orchestrated everything I think they have controlled the perception. We used to call that psy-ops in the miltary. The people that went in before us and dropped pamphlets on the iraqi's and told them don't mind the bombs we are here to help.
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Bill and CR have a valid point about incompetence, however they overlook one glaring fact that shoots them both down in flames.
The fact that so many questions are being asked means they did not get away with it, if in fact they did it .
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While anything is possible, do you really think our government has the capability of pulling off a conspiracy of this magnitude? Think about it realistically for just a minute. This is the same government who got caught trying to pull off Watergate. Which was nothing more than a bungled hotel room break in. It happens successfully every night of the week in hotels across America. Usually by idiots looking for their next drug fix. This is the same government that got caught feeding weapons to the Contras. This is the same government that got caught trying to undermine Second Amendment rights by letting illegal straw purchasers walk from Arizona gun shops with as many as 20 AK-47's in one purchase, not thinking it would cause any concern.
Now, all of a sudden this same government has this magical ability and talent to fake Moon landings, attack ourselves on 9/11, and to frost the cake and light the candles.......Fake a grade school attack, along with the deaths and funerals of 20 kids involving hundreds of family members. And possess the ability to pull it all off without a hitch??? That's giving a lot of credit to a government that can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. I'd put more money on a street gang burglarizing Fort Knox.
Well, you have shown they are foolish enough to try it....and it appears they might be getting caught again.
And I don't propose they MAY have faked the funerals, just who did the killing.
And about the "magical ability". Just because they didn't try some of those hoaxes doesn't mean they didn't try this one...like they tried the Contra Arms deal and Watergate.
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There is just no way this could have been a conspiracy. It involves too many people putting a false story out, and at the same time keeping their mouth shut when required to do so. Is the liberal media covering up things by not reporting anything that might be a blemish on Hussein, or would hinder his gun control scheme developing out of it? Sure, one only has to look at Benghazi. If it weren't for Fox News most of America would not have known it happened. Fox kept pushing it, just like they did with Jon Hammer being held in a Mexican prison on a bum gun charge. Bill O'Reilly made such a stink about it they had no choice but to let him go. Yet, according to Jay Carney, both he and Hussein didn't even know about the kid. They would have had to be living in a ice cave in Antarctica not to. Fox pushed the story every night in prime time for over 2 weeks.
Reporters were crawling all over Sandy Hook for days asking everyone and anyone everything. Fox News, who looks for anything that puts Hussein in a bad light, reported nothing out of the ordinary. When this many people are gathered in a single place to report an event, there is bound to be some crossing up of information. Or else some outright falsehoods in the earliest of reports. But there is just no way a government that pretty much bungles everything they touch, could have possibly pulled this off, even if they had David Copperfield and Cris Angel working for them doing background prep work.
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Bill, how many folks would it take to kidnap the fall guy, kill his mother, drive to the school, have one member of the team go inside, do the deed, drag the guy in and execute him inside keeping witnesses at bay or dead?
Might be two or three guys.
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Bill, how many folks would it take to kidnap the fall guy, kill his mother, drive to the school, have one member of the team go inside, do the deed, drag the guy in and execute him inside keeping witnesses at bay or dead?
Might be two or three guys.
As I said, anything is possible. It just requires how much you want to believe it. I don't. This was a nut job going off the rails. It's happened before, and it will happen again. The difference is now we've got a country full of pandering socialist politicians, who will use it as a 5 meter spring board for launching new ways to disarm the people through additional gun control. Nothing more, nothing less.
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As I said, anything is possible. It just requires how much you want to believe it. I don't. This was a nut job going off the rails. It's happened before, and it will happen again. The difference is now we've got a country full of pandering socialist politicians, who will use it as a 5 meter spring board for launching new ways to disarm the people through additional gun control. Nothing more, nothing less.
I do agree that is the most likely possibility, maybe 90%.
I put the percentage so low because of the glaring inconsistencies....which might be due to biased and rushed reporting.
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I never once said the kids weren't dead or weren't killed.
Obviously if anything were to be believed about that "Iron River of guns" flowing into Mexico, then hundreds if not thousands of Mexicans were killed including women and children.
That illustrates to me that this administration could care less about 100 brown kids south of the border. What makes you think they would care any more about 20 white kids in Connecticut?
As far as the .gov and the success rates of its past conspiracies or operations, somehow I doubt they are "Oh for five" but closer to twenty-five out of thirty.
How about the internment camps for the Japanese?
Or here in the 60's in St. Louis, the spraying of flourescing chemicals including cadmium to supposedly test the effects of radioactive fallout.
Look at how complicit our media is with a democratic administration.
Yeah, I suspect the media turned a simple hotel room break in from a mole hill into a mountain.
Remember seeing Ollie North pleading the fifth just about every day in the summer of 1987. Again, a republican administration.
Compare that to the softball handling of Whitewater and a blow job in the Oval Office and the subsequent finger wagging at the camera. Fast forward to yesterday and a seemimgly mad Hillary Clinton smacking the table asking what difference does it make, then just as a Republican legislator is going to ask her some more hard quedtions, the video footage is cleverly cropped short and switches to a view of the State Department building.
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I never once said the kids weren't dead or weren't killed.
Obviously if anything were to be believed about that "Iron River of guns" flowing into Mexico, then hundreds if not thousands of Mexicans were killed including women and children.
That illustrates to me that this administration could care less about 100 brown kids south of the border. What makes you think they would care any more about 20 white kids in Connecticut?
As far as the .gov and the success rates of its past conspiracies or operations, somehow I doubt they are "Oh for five" but closer to twenty-five out of thirty.
How about the internment camps for the Japanese?
EDIT: or the Tuskegee syphillis experiments ???
Or here in the 60's in St. Louis, the spraying of flourescing chemicals including cadmium to supposedly test the effects of radioactive fallout.
Look at how complicit our media is with a democratic administration.
Yeah, I suspect the media turned a simple hotel room break in from a mole hill into a mountain.
Remember seeing Ollie North pleading the fifth just about every day in the summer of 1987. Again, a republican administration.
Compare that to the softball handling of Whitewater and a blow job in the Oval Office and the subsequent finger wagging at the camera. Fast forward to yesterday and a seemimgly mad Hillary Clinton smacking the table asking what difference does it make, then just as a Republican legislator is going to ask her some more hard quedtions, the video footage is cleverly cropped short and switches to a view of the State Department building.
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Has anyone seen a retraction by the Newtown Bee newspaper about the SWAT team guy being caught with a gun running away from the school?
If he was carrying a gun in him, he could just as easily be carrying a police walkie talkie and listening to the responding police radio calls. That would be their cue that it is time to bug out.
Were any of the three guys apprehended that day ever checked for gunshot residue?
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Maybe they had the new black panther party do the deed,haven't they called for the "killin of cracker babies"... ::) ::) ::)
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Google Terrence Yeakey's name then get back to me about how to get police to keep their mouths shut.
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Maybe they had the new black panther party do the deed,haven't they called for the "killin of cracker babies"... ::) ::) ::)
It was the reptillians. They teleported the black Honda and Adam Lanza to the scene. They just forgot about taking the shotgun out of the trunk first. Dang reptillians, they can't get nuthin' right!
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Google Terrence Yeakey's name then get back to me about how to get police to keep their mouths shut.
Tyler has mentioned this guy before and I posted this link .
You have got to read this,
http://forums.officer.com/t64968/
There's over 180 hits on this.
Think back on all the FBI "terror plot" busts, agents helped with finances, agents helped with targeting, agents helped with planning, agents supplied the explosives, about all the shmuck had to do was show up .
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fbi-terror-bomb-plot-federal-nyc-arrest-202929163--finance.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/28/news/la-pn-congress-terror-plot-20110928
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9616696/FBI-arrests-man-in-terror-sting-timeline-of-plots-on-US-soil.html
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I just wanted to share some thoughts. This being a government operation is not too hard to believe if you look at it like this. I'm goin to use more of the Aurora inconsistencies. So in that case Holmes got a roughly 22,000 dollar grant from the government. Had his apartment rigged so ingeniously it took FBI bomb experts 2 days to figure out the triggers and rigging. You can't just read about that on the net.
Anyway it takes three top men in a black ops department of a government origination to say basically go do this. So u have to keep those three people quiet and from all the ops we run and never hear about that is possible. You don't have to really tell anyone else. The police will bungle and cover up stuff just because that is the nature of police work. Inconsistency of witness testimony will cause different stories from coming out. Now one of those three men Will need to be no the ground posing as a FBI agent or some sort of high ranking fed that can have oversight and the ear of top local police brass. He can coach the top brass on what he thinks they should answer in interviews. You can see that that happens by the questions the decide to answer and ignore and or say we can not comment at this time on that. And in both cases FBI agents are seen standing behind the local police chiefs in the interviews.
So basically you recruit a fall guy. Holmes or Lanza. You make the guns that he will be caught with the same as a family member or tie them to him some how. You wind him up set him loose with help in direction. In both cases mulitiple people have been witnessed in the the actions. A caller in the movie theater with a goatee opening the door for Holmes. And others in the forest or in black sweatshirts in the Lanza case. Both fall guys have serious issues where more than one person has witnessed and issue as of late. Not hard to find a guy like that anywhere. Shoot there are people at my work that fit that. So really the cover up is not hard. It's natural it will happen. Look they can't even give us an accurate gun count. And the thing that would shut everyone up the camera footage is nonexistent and going to be used in court so all the fed agent has to do is lock that down ship it out saying its being reviewed for evidence Edit/ Dr it and then release it later.
Not a lot of people need to be in on this for it to work. You are talking about a min of 5 or max of 10. All now dead or buried deep in a government agency that has no real oversight. Just my thoughts. Sorry for any mistakes typing on my phone
I wanted to add to this. In this day and age of Facebook and twitter I'm 30 and have accounts on both depicting a pretty good picture of who I am and what I like. We are talking about 2 guys younger than me and there is nothing about them out there. More of Holmes than Lanza cause Holmes "changed" when he got to Colorado. Just too meet and tidy all of it.
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What KSail describes is exactly what has happened in many "domestic terror" cases except the feds stop short of real explosives.
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I can imagine the thoughts of a Police Department that starts uncovering these types of inconsistencies.
"You know, with the nature of these inconsistencies, it sure looks like some agency might be involved in this incident. I wonder how far we could investigate that before we starting dieing in single car accidents?"
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I can imagine the thoughts of a Police Department that starts uncovering these types of inconsistencies.
"You know, with the nature of these inconsistencies, it sure looks like some agency might be involved in this incident. I wonder how far we could investigate that before we starting dieing in single car accidents?"
Or shooting ourselves in the back of the head .
I take it you read the above link .
http://forums.officer.com/t64968/
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Or shooting ourselves in the back of the head .
I take it you read the above link .
http://forums.officer.com/t64968/
after walking or crawling a mile and a half from your vehicle, which is soaked in your blood because you slashed your wrists and neck while still inside the vehicle.
???
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Tom- I had never read that story and it put a ball in my throat. The though that he had to tell his friend he had to shake the FBI tail to meet whoever it was is the worst thing I have heard. They had to tail him cause he used the first Amendment and gave his opinion. Right or wrong that is BS.
And just like in this case the FBI agents are told from higher up that this guy might have a screw loose (he is making wild claims) fallow him and see where he is going. So really the FBI is not in on it. It is the people he went and met. Most likely buried black op agent. Who if caught has no ties to this either. Essentially just a hit man.
The more I think about it the more I see how easy a cover up can be. Nature suspicion and the simple math of amount of people on the ground plus their own minds equals many stories and opinions to come out. And this is for any bit of evidence. Weapons used to number of shooters to amount of rounds shot. You put 20 forensic people in that school I bet you will get at least 5 different round counts. So the cover up is easy. Anytime someone asks the red button questions like where is camera footage in school. Block that question. Simple coaching of the Local Brass and a few key strokes the truth is buried.
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What you could do if you had the right pull is find out if a government credit card or funding of any kind ie per diem for food cab, a rental car, government gas card. Something like that was used before in the area of Sandy Hook. That would tell you if someone was on the ground. The problem is if it is under a special ops umbrella that funding is really unaccounted for. There is a total that is paid off. You would almost have to find someone that works for Visa to find a card registered to government or the gas company's card registered to government to see if one was used in the area before the event at anytime. And if it was you trace it back from there.
Wow I have now thought about this too much.
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I had never heard of this Officer before Tyler said to google him, when I read that on a Cop Forum I almost sh!t.
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I won't speculate about the accuracy or credibility of TheTinMan's post, but I did notice something. It was mentioned, more than once, that Officer Leakey spoke with "friends" and his wife about the suspicious nature of the bombing - that was a mistake. In NICS-esque fashion... Rule #1 should be 'Keep your mouth shut.' Gather your evidence, make multiple copies, send them to several news outlets anonymously, and don't leave a trail (physical, digital, or otherwise). And above all, don't involve your family.
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I won't speculate about the accuracy or credibility of TheTinMan's post, but I did notice something. It was mentioned, more than once, that Officer Leakey spoke with "friends" and his wife about the suspicious nature of the bombing - that was a mistake. In NICS-esque fashion... Rule #1 should be 'Keep your mouth shut.' Gather your evidence, make multiple copies, send them to several news outlets anonymously, and don't leave a trail (physical, digital, or otherwise). And above all, don't involve your family.
Poor guy was an amateur at this. He probably didn't realize he couldn't trust the 'Good Guys' till it was too late.
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I won't speculate about the accuracy or credibility of TheTinMan's post, but I did notice something. It was mentioned, more than once, that Officer Leakey spoke with "friends" and his wife about the suspicious nature of the bombing - that was a mistake. In NICS-esque fashion... Rule #1 should be 'Keep your mouth shut.' Gather your evidence, make multiple copies, send them to several news outlets anonymously, and don't leave a trail (physical, digital, or otherwise). And above all, don't involve your family.
That was just the first one I picked to read and it seemed to have the most info in the most concise manner .
Here's the search result I got .
http://www.search.ask.com/web?o=15492&tpr=6&q=Terrence%2520+Yeakey
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This is a line from an article about the OKC bombing
At the time, domestic anti-terrorism legislation was stalled in Congress. Richard K. Moore wrote: "In my opinion. . . . the goal of the OKC operation was to pass the Anti-Terrorism Bill without debate. If there had been debate, then the issues of constitutional liberties and the creation of a police state would have been raised in public debate. Our rulers prefer that the police state be implemented without the public noticing. By creating a climate of national hysteria, using a staged "terrorist attack," the Bill sailed through with no debate or discussion. Mission accomplished."
Here is a link to the story
http://web.archive.org/web/20011211221744/http://www.patshannan.bizland.com/murrahintro.html