The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: DGF on January 23, 2013, 08:55:30 AM

Title: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: DGF on January 23, 2013, 08:55:30 AM
Take a deep breath. I'm not sure what Obama can do in four years but it doesn't sound good. Why would he be looking for military officers that would be willing to fire upon U.S. citizens. He must have a reason. Hmmmm.

http://www.examiner.com/article/renowned-author-obama-wants-military-leaders-who-will-fire-on-u-s-citizens
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: JC5123 on January 23, 2013, 09:24:18 AM
I saw this yesterday. Here are my thoughts.

Without a source I am still skeptical. Unnamed sources are notoriously WRONG.

However my next thought was that considering this regimes outright hostility towards true Americans, sad that you can actually consider this plausible, if not likely. 
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: GeorgeCook on January 23, 2013, 09:39:42 AM
Like mentioned before unnamed sources is wrought with challenges; healthy skepticism is in order here. However, I do believe it is plausible to believe that an avowed globalist/New World Order type like Obama would want to restructure the military leadership to reflect a globalist agenda.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 23, 2013, 09:45:57 AM
Unnamed sources do not get a lot of attention from me, but on the other hand ...

Businesses, organizations, and politicians have long used the "unnamed source" or the "person close to the situation" as a way of sending an unofficial message - a shot across the bow if you will.  With my tin foil a little to tight I ask, is this a way of sending a message to those who say they will fight rather than surrender?  
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: Jrlobo on January 23, 2013, 10:06:37 AM
One explanation is the possible reluctance of military leaders, especially CENTCOM AND AFRICOM CDRs, to fire (in foreign countries) on U.S. citizens who have been declared terrorists and have been put on the President's kill list. Some general officers take the oath to defend the Constitution too seriously! Another explanation, is to ready the standing army to act against "domestic terrorists" consistent with the DHS studies that indicate that there is where the problem will lie in the not-so-distant future. Remember MacArthur is one general who rose to great heights in his career by "following orders" and then crashed and burned by not doing so.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 23, 2013, 10:39:25 AM
MacArthur was already as high as he could go, Chief of Staff of the Army when he ordered the  attack on the "Bonus Marchers".
The order he didn't obey was aiming for stalemate in Korea .
He intended to win and that was not acceptable to the communists and sympathizers known to have flooded the FDR and Truman administrations .
Democrats, isn't that a surprise ?
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: jaybet on January 23, 2013, 11:02:44 AM
The guy is temporarily famous because of his assertions...what every knucklehead in the media wants. In the event of an armed conflict there will be choices made by military personnel just like everyone else. Some will be with us and some against, so it's a bit of a silly discussion.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: cookie62 on January 23, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
Sounds like one of those heard it from a friend of a friends third cousin type stories. But then again he put it on facebook so it must be true. ;)
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: DGF on January 23, 2013, 12:15:23 PM
I also am skeptical of un-named sources but.........

It is very, very hard to trust anything about BHO. I have a hard time believing anything he says.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: jnevis on January 23, 2013, 01:08:56 PM
MacArthur was already as high as he could go, Chief of Staff of the Army when he ordered the  attack on the "Bonus Marchers".
The order he didn't obey was aiming for stalemate in Korea .
He intended to win and that was not acceptable to the communists and sympathizers known to have flooded the FDR and Truman administrations .
Democrats, isn't that a surprise ?

MacArthur and BHO would be great friends, if you could get thier egos through the HANGAR door.  Looking at the South Pacific in WW2, Nimitz spent almost as much effort in appeasing MacArthur than he did fighting the Japanese.  His military actions were minimal at best, but he put on e GREAT show.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: crusader rabbit on January 23, 2013, 01:34:40 PM
It was said about Bill Clinton that he would rather climb a tree to tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

IMHO the current resident spends most of his time in the tops of the trees.  And I do not mean that in any racist way!

However, that said, I have very little confidence in "unnamed sources."  I relegate them to the same bin as anything said by Alex Jones.  To put it in clearer perspective, Jones' bin is right next to Bidens'.

Finally, in my fairly wide ranging experience with current and former military, I would echo JBETS observation that choices will be made.  Some (hopefully, a distinct minority) will always follow orders no matter how unlawful they may be.  Others will harken back to their oath to support the Constitution.  It is my sincere hope and earnest prayer to a benevolent God that He will move the majority to follow their oath as sworn to Him.

And, as a small aside, if you haven't checked out http://oathkeepers.org now might be a good time to do so.

Crusader Rabbit
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 23, 2013, 07:55:50 PM
MacArthur and BHO would be great friends, if you could get thier egos through the HANGAR door.  Looking at the South Pacific in WW2, Nimitz spent almost as much effort in appeasing MacArthur than he did fighting the Japanese.  His military actions were minimal at best, but he put on e GREAT show.

That isn't correct, first, Mac was a pompous prick, he was no where near being a communist sympathizer .
2nd, he did a lot of fighting in Indonesia that never got the press the Marines did, such as using the Marines to neutralize Cape Gloucester .

It was said about Bill Clinton that he would rather climb a tree to tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

IMHO the current resident spends most of his time in the tops of the trees.  And I do not mean that in any racist way!

However, that said, I have very little confidence in "unnamed sources."  I relegate them to the same bin as anything said by Alex Jones.  To put it in clearer perspective, Jones' bin is right next to Bidens'.

Finally, in my fairly wide ranging experience with current and former military, I would echo JBETS observation that choices will be made.  Some (hopefully, a distinct minority) will always follow orders no matter how unlawful they may be.  Others will harken back to their oath to support the Constitution.  It is my sincere hope and earnest prayer to a benevolent God that He will move the majority to follow their oath as sworn to Him.

And, as a small aside, if you haven't checked out http://oathkeepers.org now might be a good time to do so.

Crusader Rabbit

Look at the Graduating Classes at West Point in the early 1840's .
Generally speaking they went with their home states, but not all .
Two exceptions that come to mind , there were others, George Thomas, Gen. USA "The Rock of Chickamuaga"  was from Georgia, while James "Pete" Longstreet ,Lt. Gen, CSA  Lee's most trusted Corps commander, was raised in NJ .
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: Solus on January 24, 2013, 10:17:07 AM
It isn't a far reach.

Every petty dictator on up has built a 'army' that will execute 'dissidents'. 
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 24, 2013, 08:15:14 PM
It isn't a far reach.

Every petty dictator on up has built a 'army' that will execute 'dissidents'. 

Do you mean like George Washington and the "Whiskey Rebellion" ?
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: Rastus on January 24, 2013, 08:53:58 PM
I believe it.  I didn't hear it on the internet or read it in the news either.  I've already sent out this letter to my US Senators and my Congressman:


23-JAN-13
The Honorable XXXXXX
U.S. Senate
XXX Russel Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

Dear Senator XXXX:
I am most distressed to hear that the administration has for some time placed a “litmus test” on military leadership which revolves about the willingness to fire upon US Citizens.  Hopefully this disconcerting information, that the administration requires an affirmative answer to fire upon US Citizens for military career advancement, is blatantly false.  I am sending this letter to you in hopes that you will confirm that military leadership promotions and retentions are in no way tied to an individual’s willingness to fire upon a US Citizen.

The US military has a history to service to God and country that honors the lives of US Citizens by protecting us from enemies to our Constitution and State.  Information that this service is being intentionally corrupted heralds to historical foundations of tragedy that other nations have both suffered and endured.   I hope that our military leadership is not being politically despoiled.

My information comes not from the internet or news organizations.  My information is derived from retired military personnel who have retired with distinguished service.  Additionally and most frighteningly, I was made aware some time ago that General James N. Mattis, Commander of US Central Command, was being “pushed out” by the administration due to his unwillingness to fire upon US Citizens under cover of the “David Petraeus and General John Allen mess”.

If you can provide contradictory solace it would be most welcome.  However, if there is any substantiation at all of my concerns I, with all humility, believe you agree that it is one’s duty to investigate and publicize this matter.  Our nation is changing but there are some things that can be agreed upon as being intolerable or our nation shall be lost.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXX
XXXX Road
Somewhere
Somestate, Zipcode
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: fatbaldguy on January 25, 2013, 03:19:01 AM
http://www.knology.net/~bilrum/UN29palms.htm

Once again, I can't source it.  Smoke anyone?

Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: gunman42782 on January 25, 2013, 04:49:44 AM
I would not put anything pass BO.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: Solus on January 25, 2013, 09:12:07 AM
Do you mean like George Washington and the "Whiskey Rebellion" ?

Don't know since no one got executed...but it might have been.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 25, 2013, 09:16:33 AM
How often have I posted on here that when push comes to shove it will not be some "foreign UN troops" kicking in your door, it will be the kid from down the street that you congratulated on completing basic training .
The UN can not function with out US participation.
If you have been paying attention to news other than the football player and his fake dad girlfriend you may have seen the article saying that even the French need US airlift to deploy to Mali.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: Solus on January 25, 2013, 09:20:03 AM
One thing you have to say about the French. 

 They are always there when they need us.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: fatbaldguy on January 26, 2013, 04:29:58 PM
http://behindtheheadlines.net/sections/bthl/videos/vid_149.shtml

More smoke?  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: Rastus on January 27, 2013, 08:16:28 PM
How often have I posted on here that when push comes to shove it will not be some "foreign UN troops" kicking in your door, it will be the kid from down the street that you congratulated on completing basic training .
<snip>

Yep.  Add Homey Security too...
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: DGF on January 29, 2013, 09:27:37 AM
I don't know what they were training for, but..............

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8971311
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 29, 2013, 10:47:24 AM
We had F 35's training up here.
I suspect the Military Branches are trying to get in all the training they can before they lose all their funds .
I have heard that re-enlistments are being refused until the Pentagon knows how much money they can expect.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: DGF on January 29, 2013, 12:51:29 PM
Maybe so Tom. I did all my training within the borders of Ft Sill Oklahoma not out in the civilian world.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 29, 2013, 01:12:11 PM
Maybe so Tom. I did all my training within the borders of Ft Sill Oklahoma not out in the civilian world.

Since at least the Clinton era the services have been training in abandoned or closed facilities .
When I was living in Ca the Marines landed and spent a week playing in the old Oakland Naval Hospital complex .
 You can't train the troops for anything that could not be used against citizens so your choices are to train them to the best of our ability and take a chance, or else let paranoia get them killed in places like Beirut and Kabul .
Between the risk averse command structure, and a Congress that deploys them with out a clear objective they have enough troubles with out adding half assed training to the mix.
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: santahog on January 30, 2013, 11:26:43 AM
I have heard that re-enlistments are being refused until the Pentagon knows how much money they can expect.
So what the hell are they doing with them?? Are they being extended or just going back to the house??
Title: Re: Military that will fire on citizens.
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 30, 2013, 12:50:35 PM
So what the hell are they doing with them?? Are they being extended or just going back to the house??

Getting out and going Reserve or NG.