The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tt11758 on January 24, 2013, 12:28:43 PM
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These are the guns that Diane Feinstein doesn't think anybody but cops and criminals should be able to possess. Sorry for the photo quality, I had to go with what I could find.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x475/10ringfirearmstraining/Feinstein-Weapons-Ban-e1359047805173-1.jpg)
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I have to ask, how many belt fed M2s are out there being used in shootings?
Funny that just like the last time, only the Mini-14 "Tactical" model is listed but the rest of the line is not.
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I have to ask, how many belt fed M2s are out there being used in shootings?
Funny that just like the last time, only the Mini-14 "Tactical" model is listed but the rest of the line is not.
Just like the Barrett rifles out there: They are having a huge issue with 95 lb methheads running around with those under their arms shooting up neighborhoods. Or maybe it was the fact that they think John Rambo is a real person, and that there is a huge issue with his closing scene in Rambo II :o
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I have seen smatterings of this as I sit here at the desk making pennies a day, but I don't see any reference to the Bill number. Does anyone know what the Senate File number is so I can find the list of co-authors?
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Funny that just like the last time, only the Mini-14 "Tactical" model is listed but the rest of the line is not.
And the Mini 30 is not on the list. That's like, 16 minis more dangerous than the Mini 14.
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Here is a more readable list:
List of Firearms Prohibited by Name
Rifles: All AK types, including the following: AK, AK47, AK47S, AK74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK47, VEPR, WASR10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AKS;
All AR types, including the following: AR10, AR15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K1, K2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK91, HK93, HK94, HKPSG1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub2000, SU16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M14/20CF;
All Thompson rifles, including the following: Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.
Pistols: All AK47 types, including the following: Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK47 pistol, HCR AK47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol;
All AR15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP9 and MP45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB10, TEC22 Scorpion, TEC9, and TECDC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol; The following MAC types: MAC10, MAC11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre; All Thompson types, including the following: Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5;
All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.
Shotguns: Franchi LAW12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.
Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms: All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.
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She has a list of 2,258 legitimate hunting and sporting rifles and shotguns by specific make and model.
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I have seen smatterings of this as I sit here at the desk making pennies a day, but I don't see any reference to the Bill number. Does anyone know what the Senate File number is so I can find the list of co-authors?
Low-lights: http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/561603/feinstein-automatic-weapons-ban-2013-summary.pdf
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Banning dangerous aftermarket modifications and workarounds.
Bump or slide fire stocks, which are modified stocks that enable semi-automatic weapons to fire at rates similar to fully automatic machine guns.
So-called “bullet buttons” that allow the rapid replacement of ammunition magazines, frequently used as a workaround to prohibitions on detachable magazines.
Thumbhole stocks, a type of stock that was created as a workaround to avoid prohibitions on pistol grips.
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Banning dangerous aftermarket modifications and workarounds.
Bump or slide fire stocks, which are modified stocks that enable semi-automatic weapons to fire at rates similar to fully automatic machine guns.
So-called “bullet buttons” that allow the rapid replacement of ammunition magazines, frequently used as a workaround to prohibitions on detachable magazines.
Thumbhole stocks, a type of stock that was created as a workaround to avoid prohibitions on pistol grips.
You sir are a trained professional: My understanding from past bans and restrictions is that a "bullet button" is an item that requires a tool for you to change magazines. Does Mrs. Ban Em All not pay attention? Strike that, She doesn't. Am I wrong about my understanding and limited research on this today?
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You sir are a trained professional: My understanding from past bans and restrictions is that a "bullet button" is an item that requires a tool for you to change magazines. Does Mrs. Ban Em All not pay attention? Strike that, She doesn't. Am I wrong about my understanding and limited research on this today?
That was my understanding also
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These two 9mm rifle are the same, one is banned the other is not!
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Yeah....take a 10/22 in standard wood dress and one with the Archangel "tactical" treatment and ask which should be banned.
My guess is the Archangel would be the one.
Then take them apart, swap the actions and ask again.
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These two 9mm rifle are the same, one is banned the other is not!
Please people read the text. DiFi's legislation is banning ALL AKs, ARs, Uzi's, AK/AR pistols and Thompsons. The listed firearms are examples. Thus the use of the term "including" just prior to the list of guns.
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WAKE UP !
The objective is to ban ALL civilian guns .
These are just the ones they're starting with .
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The Ruger camp 9 is on the exempted list, while the hi-point 9 carbine is on the banned list.
Please people read the text. DiFi's legislation is banning ALL AKs, ARs, Uzi's, AK/AR pistols and Thompsons. The listed firearms are examples. Thus the use of the term "including" just prior to the list of guns.
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Don't get too married to the banned and exempted lists. There is still the list of items on the gun, and if they go to the one item plan our Ruger 10/22's will be banned (detachable magazine) >:(
Other items over looked by many are the meanings of the items on the "bad gun component" list.
Barrel Shroud: A part that protects the shooters hand from the heat of the barrel during sustained fire. Sounds like a forestock to me
Pistol Grip: A pronounced grip protruding from the stock. Have you looked at the styles of stocks for rifles and shotguns and their names? Have you looked at a basic pistol grip shotgun or rifle stock and noticed how the grip area swells out from the main stock and protrudes down from the line of the bottom of the stock?
There are others in there. I don't know if these anti's are so ignorant that they are writing this blindly, or if they are doing it with help and hoping we won't catch it until after they start enforcement.
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Blame the peeps who voted for her reelection. Look at COMMIE FORNIA,at there gunlaws,taxes,iileagles,and so forth. Taxes,iileagles say they dont'pay any taxes.
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Blame the peeps who voted for her reelection. Look at COMMIE FORNIA,at there gunlaws,taxes,iileagles,and so forth. Taxes,iileagles say they dont'pay any taxes.
It ain't going to happen (not if we do our part). They don't even have the votes to get a simple majority in the Senate, much less get to 60. And forget the House. Just keep on the line to your Congress critter. Make sure he knows you on a first name basis.
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And NO funding for the Annointed One's Exec. Orders either. House Appropriation Committee needs to hold fast, and grow a pair.
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My concern is not that the Republicans won't find the balls to stop this stuff.
My concern is that they don't really want to.
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Don't get too married to the banned and exempted lists. There is still the list of items on the gun, and if they go to the one item plan our Ruger 10/22's will be banned (detachable magazine) >:(
Reading the draft version of S.150, as provided by PegLeg45 (http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=21754.0 (http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=21754.0)), would indicate that a rifle accepting detachable magazines is not automatically defined as a "semiautomatic assault weapon." To qualify, the rifle must accept detachable magazines AND have one of the features specified in the 'characteristics list.' The same is true for handguns - accepts detachable magazines AND has one of the listed features. With this in mind, the Ruger 10/22, in standard factory dress, would not be banned.
In general, I think it is more useful to focus on their 'formula' for a 'semiautomatic assault weapon' rather than the two lists. I see those lists as an attempt to show how innocuous the ban really is... as in "Look, we're letting you keep over 2000 and we only want about 150 or so - see how harmless this is?"
The bill's THOMAS text should be available soon and we can see if it differs from the draft version linked above.
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In general, I think it is more useful to focus on their 'formula' for a 'semiautomatic assault weapon' rather than the two lists. I see those lists as an attempt to show how innocuous the ban really is... as in "Look, we're letting you keep over 2000 and we only want about 150 or so - see how harmless this is?"
I think it is "most useful" to stop these mo**erfu**ers in their tracks.
Dead in their tracks if necessary.
Make no mistake, they are after all guns.
These are just the ones they think we're dumb enough to let go first.
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Don't think anything to do with a weapon will remain legal with this crowd.
Listen to Feinstein explain how a collapsible stock will change an AR to full automatic... 5:46
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57566053/feinstein-assault-weapons-ban-an-uphill-climb/
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The bottom line is that we must not loose site of their final goal:
Zero firearms in the hands of American subjects!
This is a bad day for me to be contributing on this. Vietnam on History Channel, Patriot was on earlier, and Braveheart is also on this afternoon. Too many reminders of what happens when we forget history!
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I think DIFI is sharing the botox-grape wine mix from Pelosi. Still looks ugly and demented.
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I think DIFI is sharing the botox-grape wine mix from Pelosi. Still looks ugly and demented.
Looks can be deceiving, but not in this case
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One thing that puzzles me in this push for an "assault weapon" ban is that not one person has brought up the SCOTUS ruling in the Miller case .
The SCOTUS ruled that Millers sawed off shotgun was not protected by the 2nd A because it had no military utility for militia use .
AK's AR's and all the other guns on the current ban list are there because they do have military utility for militia use, or look like they do .
Same thing with large capacity magazines, these are precisely the type items the SCOTUS ruled WERE protected
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One thing that puzzles me in this push for an "assault weapon" ban is that not one person has brought up the SCOTUS ruling in the Miller case .
The SCOTUS ruled that Millers sawed off shotgun was not protected by the 2nd A because it had no military utility for militia use .
AK's AR's and all the other guns on the current ban list are there because they do have military utility for militia use, or look like they do .
Same thing with large capacity magazines, these are precisely the type items the SCOTUS ruled WERE protected
Good point. If we are still going to drag out the militia vs individual argument, it becomes pretty damn hard to argue that the civilian version of military firearms aren't protected. After all, what else would a militia use? Di Fi might have screwed herself (God knows no one else would). ;D
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FQ,
It is not militia vs. individual. The militia is made up of well regulated individuals, and well regulated is (was in the period of the writing) equipped and prepared.
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FQ,
It is not militia vs. individual. The militia is made up of well regulated individuals, and well regulated is (was in the period of the writing) equipped and prepared.
M58, your phrasing is backwards .
It's not the individuals who are well regulated , that would completely reverse the purpose of the Bill of Rights .
The "Well regulated" (in other words, Officered and disciplined, not an armed mob) militia is composed of sovereign individuals voluntarily serving their community under the laws governing the Army and Naval forces.
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Tom,
You didn't understand my statement!
Well Regulated = equipped, practiced and prepared
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Tom,
You didn't understand my statement!
Well Regulated = equipped, practiced and prepared
I understood perfectly. You are the one having problems .
The whole of the population are eligible to serve in the militia therefore the PEOPLE need appropriate arms .
But not every one is REQUIRED to join , it's voluntary, and it is only the actual units that need , or needed, to be regulated at all, well, or poorly .
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
It could be argued that the power to grant "Letters of Marque" also comes under regulating the militia since privateers were the naval equivalent of the militia.
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Alan Korwin Page 9
http://www.gunlaws.com/Page9Folder100up/PageNine-120.htm
1.
"The Brady bill will make the streets of America so safe
that our nation's police will not even need to carry guns anymore."
William Jefferson Clinton, on TV, while signing the Brady bill in 1993,
quoted in Sheriff Richard Mack's book, The Magic of Gun Control.
1- What Feinstein's Bill Left Out
The lamestream media told you:
The lamestream media told you:
[Composite summary: Sen. Diane Feinstein, a long-time crusader for justice and peace, motivated by unspeakable tragedy, has introduced her wonderful brand new bill designed to make children safe and take those awful killing machines off the street to stop crime and make everyone safer. The powerful gun lobby will fight her because they are evil.]
[NY Times version:] WASHINGTON — by Jennifer Steinhauer -- During a lengthy and at times emotionally wrenching news conference, Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California on Thursday announced legislation that would ban the sale and manufacture of 157 types of semiautomatic weapons, as well as magazines holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition...
Surrounded by victims of gun violence, colleagues in the Senate and House and several law enforcement officials, and standing near pegboards with several large guns attached, Ms. Feinstein acknowledged the difficulty in pursuing such legislation, even when harnessing the shock and grief over the shooting of 20 schoolchildren in Newtown, Conn., last month. “This is really an uphill road,” Ms. Feinstein said...]
The Uninvited Ombudsman notes however that:
The Uninvited Ombudsman notes however that:
I've just finished reading the 122 pages of Diane Feinstein's latest "gun-control" bill, Senate Bill S.150, and was surprised to find some important things missing.
Even more surprising was one small item briefly mentioned on page 13 that has not been reported in any "news" coverage I have seen. It's a whopper -- it invalidates her entire list of guns, and I've written ten books on this topic, I know what I'm saying! -- but first, here's what's missing:
1. Criminals.
Nothing addresses criminals -- everything is aimed at innocent people who haven't done anything wrong. There is not even any "malum in se" (legalese for intent to do wrong) or criminal intention. It is all "malum prohibitum" (wrong because we say so), the worst kind of bureaucratic and government abuse -- crime by decree. The critics appear to be right. This is not about gun control, it is purely about control. The bill simply removes the right to own property Americans currently own.
(That's not completely accurate about criminals; there is one small requirement for anyone carrying a "grandfathered semi-auto 'assault' weapon" or having one in 'such close proximity' to yourself that you could retrieve it and use it as if you carried it, if a "prohibited possessor" came near, so that the prohibited individual has no ability to access the weapon, or else keep it protected with 'a secure gun storage or safety device'. Yes, it's complicated. It seems to mean you can machine gun (or otherwise shoot) criminals without being charged with having a gun near bad people. And of course, prohibited possessors are prohibited.) Licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers are exempt.
2. Crazy people.
Please forgive my use of common English -- nothing addresses people who are nuts, borderline nuts, formerly nuts or no longer nuts and still perpetually banned from their rights. The entire problem of psychology -- screamed about in the media and by politicians -- is nowhere to be found in Feinstein's bill, despite claims and mountains of evidence that this is a root cause of the problem.
Former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, whose husband Mark Kelly testified before Congress today (Wed. Jan. 30, 2013) that she owns a gun, would not be hampered by Feinstein's bill in any way, even though she is severely brain damaged due to a criminal assault.
3. Drugs issued by Big Pharma.
Despite labels that warn psychotropic drugs may cause psychotic episodes, suicidal tendencies, manic behavior, sudden death and various social and psychological disturbances, this is unaddressed in the democrat's proposed solution to mass murder by people hopped up on psychologically prescribed medications. Reports indicate that virtually all the mass murders were "deaths under the influence" (DUI) it is missing in the bill, an omission of Feinsteinian proportions. (The Citizens Commission on Human Rights International has a researched list of perps and their drugs here: http://www.cchrint.org/tag/columbine)
4. Make-believe gun-free zones.
Overwhelming evidence repeatedly and clearly demonstrates that the massacres driving the frenzy toward civil-rights infringement occur in these make-believe gun-free zones, yet no inkling of an effort to reduce or mitigate this problem is addressed in Mrs. Feinstein's proposed hardware solution. "If we don't address the problem, how can we hope for a solution," one expert democrat asked, who requested anonymity to avoid retribution from her fellow party members.
5. Revolvers.
Mrs. Feinstein appears to have completely overlooked normal capacity, fast-shooting revolvers, that can release a powerful volley of dangerous hollowpoint cop-killer bullets. We don't want her to expand her list of course, but her plan is deliberately "allowing" criminals to murder people everywhere using her approved list of guns -- the ones she hasn't banned yet. The ones, like six-guns, cowboys used in every bloody Western you've ever watched. Why would she do such a reckless thing? She could not be reached for comment before press time.
For that matter, why is Mrs. Feinstein and her supporters in the press and elsewhere so intent on arming everyone with ten-shooters (the bill calls for a free market in sales of ten-round magazines)? Why isn't anyone questioning that? That makes no sense at all. If the goal is to protect innocent defenseless little doe-eyed children, which everyone agrees is a really good idea, forcing psychopaths to use ten-shooters is a really bad idea. Steps should be taken to disarm criminals completely. Fortunately, current law covers that completely. This bill does absolutely nothing in that regard.
6. Gun safety.
Nothing in her 122-page bill deals with gun safety. No training, no marksmanship, nothing for teachers, no self-defense awareness, no public education, nothing for schools, everything the president has asked for to increase child safety is missing in her long list of guns she would remove from the hands of the innocent. Even the slightest measure of increased gun safety is missing in her plans. Maybe it's just an oversight and will come in floor negotiations and the inevitable amendments. The chilling suggestion that her bill is just cover so that less extreme bills will seem moderate could not be confirmed as we went to press.
7. Constitutional validity.
Every aspect of this bill appears to be an infringement on the Bill Of Rights, with no legitimate justification. Congress cannot pass infringements by majority vote. That is forbidden, although the word "infringement" itself is universally missing in "news" reports, in case you haven't noticed.
Congress can't just enact whatever they want by majority rule. If they could, we would not have government of limited delegated powers, the hallmark of freedom and The American Way. It must just be a typo, on page two, continuing for 121 pages. If it's not a typo, it is grounds for removal from office for violation of her oath of office. Boy, would that be an embarrassment.
The problem on page 13:
All semi-autos are outlawed, not just some.
Pro-rights and anti-rights attention has been focused on the tremendous list of guns that would be banned under Feinstein's bill, which takes up a significant portion of the 122 pages of this proposal.
Here's the problem none of the "news" reports have spotted:
The list of guns doesn't matter.
Magazine size doesn't matter.
If the semi-auto firearm has anything to grip it by, it is banned.
It's very clever actually.
According to the bill, any semiautomatic firearm that uses a magazine -- handgun, rifle or shotgun -- equipped with a "pistol grip," would be banned. That sounds like a limitation, but it is not.
A pistol grip (on page 2) is defined (on page 13) as "a grip, a thumb-hole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip." In other words, the gun list does not matter. It is a smokescreen designed to distract people from the true meaning of the bill. And it has done a magnificent job. It worked!
Any semi-automatic firearm that exists, with anything on it you can grip, is banned. (There is a grandfather clause for old stuff.)
The list is meaningless tripe. It is camouflage for the real purpose of the bill. When the president said he is not going to take away your guns, well, Feinstein's bill puts the lie to that.
Magazine size does not matter. Brand name does not matter. It doesn't matter if it's black. If you can grip it, it's banned under this bill.
Have a nice day.
The law (if this passes):
"(36) The term 'semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following, regardless of country of manufacture or caliber of ammunition accepted:"
"(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any 1 of the following:"
"(i) A pistol grip."
"(46) The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumb-hole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip."
[The same language is repeated for handguns and shotguns; magazine includes belt fed; also included: "Any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraphs (A) through (K) can be assembled;"]
"(v)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a semiautomatic assault weapon."
[All government agencies of every kind, including school officers, are excluded from all of this. In other words, they can have all the firearms you now own that Feinstein's bill would outlaw for you. This means that rights you now have to own property would be stripped from you. That is rights denial, not crime prevention.]
The proper role of government is to protect people's rights. It says so right there in the Declaration of Independence, the document and principles that got this country going and launched individual freedom across the entire surface of the Earth. When government gets to the business of taking away rights we already have -- no matter what justification or reasoning it uses, as Mrs. Feinstein is now doing -- it is doing exactly opposite of what its legitimate role is, and that has a very dangerous and ugly name. As a refresher on basic principles:
<snip>
All men are created equal...
They are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...
Among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...
To secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...
Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends
it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...
<snip>
That's plain enough.
--
P.S. There is a section in Feinstein's bill referring to "grandfathered semiautomatic assault weapons" illegal under federal law section 922(v). Someone should tell her lawyers that 922(v) expired eight years ago and is no longer valid, so that section makes no sense, doesn't describe anything, and someone should slap those lawyers upside the head. It's a small point.
If you want to read and understand federal gun law the way I do (well, almost) get Gun Laws of America, It has all the federal gun statutes in simple numerical order and describes them all in plain English. All our books, DVDs and other goods are listed here by category and alphabetically http://www.gunlaws.com/books.htm
P.P.S. When your "representative" says, "I read the bill," you know that's not true, because the bills say things like (this is from Feinstein's bill): "(b) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMENDMENTS.— 14 (1) SECTION 922.—Section 922(y)(2) of title 15 18, United States Code, is amended, in the matter 16 preceding subparagraph (A), by striking ‘‘,17 (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II)’’ and inserting ‘‘and 18 (g)(5)(B)’’.
You can't "read" that. You have to decipher it, with the help of law clerks, over a long period of time. There are 122 pages of that in Feinstein's bill. Fortunately, most of her bill is just long lists of guns that don't really matter, since they're all banned by banning anything with a grip. What, didn't the "news" people read this like I did before reporting?