The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: JdePietro on February 05, 2013, 06:00:07 PM
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I spent one year in a public High School, the majority of my education was home schooling and I graduated at a private school. There is no deeper, darker hell than that of a public school. The only institutions that can compare are prisons and insane asylums. The amount of scrutiny you get subjected to on a daily basis is enough to drive anyone off the deep end. This is a great article on what these kids are facing and the uphill battle a society determined on sterilizing the masses to create a safer environment for the heard is causing.
http://www.vice.com/read/shooter-boys-and-at-risk-girls
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Good article.. Thanks for posting..
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Sounds like a bunch of self indulgent liberal psychocrap to me .
Childhood is supposed to be where you learn to function within society .
By following this touchy feely foolishness we come up with things like "anti bullying programs" and wind up with a generation of kids who, when confronted by a bully, instead of kicking him in the nuts, either hang themselves or shoot up their school.
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Thanks for posting. I can relate to the reading books under the desk from boredom in class and the sense of isolation. The rest is beyond my experience in many ways.
From a security POV the issue is not the attire but the intensity of the feelings and the potential impulsiveness. If a kid (or an adult) can start down the fantasy of "getting even" and be isolated enough that it does not get interupted by any grounding interactions then the risk of violence starts to climb. The more times they cycle through and the longer they spend in this skewed reality the more they can escalate and try it out in the world. Even people that they disparage like counselors can have the effect of breaking the cycle when they intrude into the kids inner life.
No one size fits all so I don't see how will we ever find a way to legislate relating to kids in way that breaks the cycles. Hug your kids and teach them to shoot so they understand reality. Treat people like humans even when they look like assholes to the extent your patience will allow!
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I hear these same arguments when it comes to anti 2A rhetoric.
"People who want to own assault weapons are rambo wanna be's and someday they may act their fantasies."
"We live in the here and now, people who quote old presidents live in a differnt world, long past that doesn't even apply to today's standards."
I don't identify with goth kids, never did but I understand the underlying points brought up in the article. We treat are children like cattle or less. They have no rights to privacy, no rights to free expression and on top of that they are classified and prejudged by the administrators in the system many parents use as a young adult day care. Public schooling is a great example of collectivism failing and failing at the highest level. Sports are held to a ridiculous level and many of teachers cannot be the parents some children need.
Many of these kids suffer from parents that use the public school system as a young adult daycare. Its a corrosive system that only works for some but as we are a society of individuals. There are people that cannot be assimilated into a cookie cutter life and they need to be dealt with in a way that promotes their strengths, this however is not the job of a government entitlement program. This is something that parents aught consider before they have children.
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There is a fundamental flaw with your opening remark, owning guns is protected by the Constitution, owning "assault weapons" is protected by the Supreme Court.
Being an immature little azzhole is not protected by either one.
The problem is that there are no standards of behavior.
There was a time, not that long ago, when a 15 was expected to do a mans work in exchange he was treated as a man.
Now we have little boys of 20 + crying about what's "fair".
The difference is 60+ years of this sort of progressive inspired BS.
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ehh, I'd debate that a wee bit. I think personal expression or the freedom of expression is hinted at in the first amendment. I think that large majority of teens qualify for your whiney azzhole title but many do not. I agree that the standards for maturity have changed dramatically, that our society has taken a huge step backwards as far as our social expectations for youth but I think it is the policies we have put in place. We willingly send our children to a government run complex, to be taught be people we have never met and would probably not agree with, and to function in a society polar opposite to the one we preach about. When you went to school I'm sure things were far different than today, at 26 I'm not so far removed from that environment that I don't remember the search a seizures that were conducted by jack boot thugs in the hallways for everyone to see. The zero tolerance policies that got people who made a gun with their hand pulled out of class by the scruff of their necks and sent to the principals office.
I have always asserted I don't think there is a single more destructive force to our way of life than that of a government run education system.
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Actually JdePietro if you look closely no where in the Constitution is there any hint of "freedom of expression" , .
It specifies Freedom of speech, and freedom of the press only. no other form of expression is mentioned .
That myth did not begin until the Hustler decision by the SCOTUS, which led to the Flag burning decision.
Freedom of expression is a term that was never heard until it was listed in the UN list of "human rights", which now includes vacations and internet access.
And despite what Norman Rockwell's propaganda paintings may indicate there is no freedom from want, or freedom from fear.
If you don't believe me try using a cross walk now in the age of texting.
Definitely no freedom from fear.
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http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I didn't think I needed to post it but there it is, ONLY speech and press, not "expression" in general.
Other wise anti obscenity laws would not have been in force for 200 years or so.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
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So I guess if you read it with such strict standards then mutes are not protected under the bill of rights to express their opinion?
Seriously, you cannot prevent another person from expressing themselves. You can threaten punitive action upon trespass but there is not a single thing you can do to prevent someone from making silly faces at you if they want to. What is even your point? Are you saying we should force all people to fit into neat little stereotypes and act as we see fit? Should we socially engineer society so that the only expression people can have are things we can agree with?
Silly and absurd. Yes the author sounds like an angsty teen, yes young adults complain about things that are not of concern in the adult world, but just an ounce of understanding, just a smidgen of compassion could help us to understand what drives people to make rash decisions as an adult. If any political party wants to have a snow flakes chance in hell of winning any elections they best find a way to appeal to this sense of confusion and disparity that our youth are expressing.
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So, you're OK with Flag burning, and displaying a crucifix in a beaker of piss ?
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I would not burn a flag, I would not support or take anyone who did seriously, I would not join a group of people watching a flag be burned, I would not watch a telecast of it and I would not support the media outlets who displayed it. I would voice my opinion against it, I would not give someone who performed the act a moment of my time.
I do not agree with it, I understand it to be a form of protest but it is ideological and symbolical and nothing more. No one is being hurt and no person who ignores it will ever know it happened. I would not campaign for a penalty for people who did it, I wouldn't want to inspire others to push the limits of the state authority and I would not want the state to feel it needs to intervene on a social issue like this. The person who would commit this act does so in protest to what the flag means to them. Perhaps they feel slighted, perhaps someone under the flag hurt, killed or desecrated something sacred to them. Personally I think its a meaningless gesture, our flag is a piece of cloth with a pattern either printed on or sewn in. My loyalty lies not with symbols it is with the idea that a nation of people can govern themselves, that freedom and liberty are dangerous things but they make life taste sweeter, and against the harm they often bring and the responsibility they always require, they are worth more than my own or anyone else's feelings getting hurt from time to time.
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I'm a little more direct, I'd kick the f**ker in the nuts and take my chances in court.
Remember, the Constitution does not govern the conduct of individuals, only Govt.