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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on February 26, 2013, 06:58:23 AM

Title: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: billt on February 26, 2013, 06:58:23 AM
I was watching "Blackhawk Down" yesterday, and I noticed that many of the guys in uniform had the American Flag patch reversed on their right shoulder. (Stars were located in the upper right corner). What is the reason for this? I first noticed it when I bought a couple of Velcro American Flag patches from Midway to put on a couple of tactical gun cases I have. They have them in several configurations. I just wondered what the story was behind it?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/493087/blackhawk-american-flag-patch

Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: Majer on February 26, 2013, 07:26:02 AM
That's the position the flag would be in charging into battle.
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: oldkat69 on February 26, 2013, 07:32:11 AM
 8)  A Sgt. at Fort Leonard Wood said it is to keep the stars moving forward.

Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: Solus on February 26, 2013, 10:41:26 AM
I believe it is a modern tradition.

The Stars lead into battle.

Don't know if it is anything official.   I guess it must be or they would be out of uniform.


Looked and found this:

Greetings, cfry191!

a fellow who stated that a flag displayed on the right shoulder with the stars facing forward was reserved for military use only and only on foreign soil. . . . Can anyone tell me if there is any truth to this?

Well, we can start with a couple of facts:

1. Current US Army regulations say that flag patches will be worn on the right sleeve, with the union facing forward. This applies to all Army personnel in working uniform, whether deployed or not. The other armed services wear the patches on the left sleeve. These regulations apply only to the armed services, of course.

2. The civilian flag code mentions flag patches, but does not specify either their orientation, or which sleeve they should be worn on. Individual civilian organizations (police forces, scout groups, sports teams, etc.) can set their own standards. The code does say that the union should be on the viewer's left when the flag is hung flat against a wall, but that is a completely different case.

So -- I would say that your friend is wrong. Display on the right shoulder is not "reserved" for the military -- in fact, the Army is the only one of the services that displays it that way. In practice, most civilians seem to put the union on the viewer's left (which would be to the rear on the right sleeve). However, I suspect that that's just because most flag patches are manufactured with the union on the left. Again, the flag code does not specify one way or the other.

Best,

Peter Ansoff



at this link:  http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/uniform-flags-1438.html

don't know how official it is...but was posted as official.
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: Jrlobo on February 26, 2013, 11:33:46 AM
As long as it is not upside down, it doesn't seem to matter except when otherwise specified, of course.
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: JC5123 on February 26, 2013, 11:52:05 AM
About a mile down the road from where I live, there is a guy that has his house on a hill. He has 3 flags up every day. At the top, the American Flag, next lower, the Wyoming sate flag, and last tier, the Gadsden. I noticed shortly after the election he started flying the Stars and Stripes upside down. I couldn't agree with him more. We are indeed in distress.
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: Solus on February 26, 2013, 01:35:55 PM
As long as it is not upside down, it doesn't seem to matter except when otherwise specified, of course.

My guess is that on a military uniform, it is specified, one way or the other.

Might be up to the unit commander to make the decision.
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: TAB on February 27, 2013, 06:07:18 AM
Flying the flag upside down, unless you are actually in distress, is disrespectful and illegal.  People that do it can and should be charged.
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: alfsauve on February 27, 2013, 07:16:02 AM
When I was in ('70) we wore the US flag of the left shoulder so that the stars where facing forward.   Imagine carrying a flag on a pole.  If you look at it from the left side the stars are in the upper left hand corner and from the right the stars are in the upper right hand one.

Trick question.  What  countries'  flags are different on the obverse and reverse sides?

Which US state has different sides?



Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: billt on February 27, 2013, 07:18:16 AM
Midway's "product information" has this:

"The blue field of stars on the American Flag should always be in the highest position of honor. When displayed on a "moving object" like a person or vehicle, the highest position of honor is the front, and not the rear; so the field of blue should be displayed to the front. Standard patches are for wear on the left shoulder, and reversed patches are for wear on the right shoulder".

Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: Solus on February 27, 2013, 09:08:08 AM
Midway's "product information" has this:

"The blue field of stars on the American Flag should always be in the highest position of honor. When displayed on a "moving object" like a person or vehicle, the highest position of honor is the front, and not the rear; so the field of blue should be displayed to the front. Standard patches are for wear on the left shoulder, and reversed patches are for wear on the right shoulder".



I wonder if that is a custom or tradition or recommendation or if there is a policy making that statement?
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: lhprop1 on February 27, 2013, 10:00:49 AM
So -- I would say that your friend is wrong. Display on the right shoulder is not "reserved" for the military -- in fact, the Army is the only one of the services that displays it that way. In practice, most civilians seem to put the union on the viewer's left (which would be to the rear on the right sleeve). However, I suspect that that's just because most flag patches are manufactured with the union on the left. Again, the flag code does not specify one way or the other.

Best,
Peter Ansoff
at this link:  http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/uniform-flags-1438.html
don't know how official it is...but was posted as official.

Mr Ansoff is incorrect, as well.  I was watching Combat Rescue (great show, by the way), and all of the PJ's had the stars forward flag on their right shoulder.  PJ's are AF.

Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: MikeBjerum on February 27, 2013, 10:28:07 AM
My only experience in actually wearing a flag on my shoulder was in Cub and Boy Scouts (military did not want many of us in '76).  It was always on the left shoulder with the Union forward.  However, I was always taught that when using the flag in procession that the Union always led the way.

The most important lesson to take from this thread is to always check Flag Etiquette before using the American Flag.  Today most people are uneducated and don't care.  We see many inappropriate uses every day, and this causes confusion in anybody that is not up on their etiquette.  To take this into a rant, can we please have a group go to the Olympic Committee and meet with the athletes before the leave for competition.  Somebody needs to explain to them that the flag is not a rag or a towel, and it does not get flopped around without a staff, worn around the neck like a towel, or hung on their back like a cape!
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: Jrlobo on February 27, 2013, 11:20:27 AM
m58,

      I am of the same sentiment. BUT, if we can burn the damn thing, why can't we wear it around our necks like a cape? I don't advocate flag burning. I think it is wrong. And, I don't advocate trashing the flag. BUT, the Olympic youngsters that parade around our flag in victory are trying, in their perhaps lame way, to show respect and their pride for our country. Sometimes I think we get too wrapped up (pun intended) in our flag. After all, comes the revolution, what flag will we be fighting under? And them? The very same one.
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: billt on February 27, 2013, 01:04:26 PM
I'm watching "First Blood", the first "Rambo" movie. In it the police have a conventional American Flag patch on the right arm of their jackets. The movie was made in 1980, so maybe this reverse thing was something recent???
Title: Re: "Reverse" American Flag Patches ??
Post by: jnevis on February 27, 2013, 01:37:03 PM
The flag being placed on the right shoulder started in Iraq after we started setting up thier security forces.  It was so you could pick out the Americans fairly quickly among all the Coalition Forces.