The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: RTFM on March 07, 2013, 12:51:42 PM
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White House, Holder respond to Rand Paul: ‘The answer is no’
Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S. soil in a non-combat situation, Obama’s spokesman announced today.
White House Press Secretary Jay Carney quoted from the letter that Holder sent to Paul today. “Does the president have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on an American soil,” Holder wrote, per Carney. “The answer is no.”
Carney added that, “if the United States were under attack, there were an imminent threat,” the president has the authority to protect the country from that assault.
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http://cowboybyte.com/19661/holder-in-extraordinary-circumstances-the-president-has-the-authority-to-order-the-killing-of-americans-on-us-soil/
Holder: In ‘Extraordinary’ Circumstances, the President Has the Authority to Order the Killing of Americans on US Soil
Posted on March 7, 2013 by Cowboy Byte
assasinate
Sen. Rand Paul demanded an answer, and now he’s got it. Via Left-wing magazine Mother Jones:
Yes, the president does have the authority to use military force against American citizens on US soil—but only in “an extraordinary circumstance,” Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter to Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) Tuesday. Last month, Paul threatened to filibuster the nomination of John Brennan, Obama’s pick to head the CIA, “until he answers the question of whether or not the President can kill American citizens through the drone strike program on U.S. soil.” Tuesday, Brennan told Paul that “the agency I have been nominated to lead does not conduct lethal operations inside the United States—nor does it have any authority to do so.” Brennan said that the Justice Department would answer Paul’s question about whether Americans could be targeted for lethal strikes on US soil. Holder’s answer was more detailed, however, stating that under certain circumstances, the president would have the authority to order lethal attacks on American citizens. The two possible examples of such “extraordinary” circumstances were the attack on Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 terrorist attacks. An American president order the use of lethal military force inside the US is “entirely hypothetical, unlikely to occur, and one we hope no president will ever have to confront,” Holder wrote.
http://cowboybyte.com/19657/ted-cruz-grills-eric-holder-on-drones-fast-and-furious/
Ted Cruz Grills Eric Holder on Drones, Fast and Furious
Posted on March 7, 2013 by Cowboy Byte
2012-06-12t162804z_01_was916_rtridsp_0_usa-politics
During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing today on Capitol Hill, Texas Senator Ted Cruz heavily questioned Attorney General Eric Holder about the Department of Justice position on drones, enforcing the law and Operation Fast and Furious. As Guy documented extensively earlier, Holder has made it clear his DOJ can kill American citizens on U.S. soil with drones in “extraordinary circumstances.” Cruz repeatedly asked Holder if this stance was constitutional, to which Holder refused to give a clear yes or no answer. The word “constitutional” never came out of Holder’s mouth.* (see update)
“I have to tell you I find it remarkable that in that hypothetical which is deliberately very simple you are unable to give a simple one word, one syllable answer: no,” Cruz said. “You keep saying appropriate. My question isn’t about propriety; my question is about whether something constitutional or not.”
On Operation Fast and Furious, Cruz asked Holder about White House involvement in the program considering President Obama asserted executive privilege last summer to prevent the overturning of DOJ documents about the case, despite denying any involvement or knowledge about the operation. Remember, three members of the White House national security team received emails about the program during the time it was active and before Congress and the public knew about it. Naturally, Holder said the White House only communicated about Fast and Furious with the Department of Justice after the congressional investigation started in early 2011.
“To my knowledge, there are no communications dealing with the operational component of Fast and Furious,” Holder said.
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http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Brennan-CIA/2013/03/07/id/493677?s=al&promo_code=12B49-1
Paul Scores Filibuster Win, Gets Holder Response on Domestic Drone Use
The White House issued a two-sentence response on Thursday to a 13-hour filibuster led by Sen. Rand Paul over whether the president is authorized to use a weaponized drone to kill U.S. citizens not engaged on combat on American soil.
“It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question: ‘Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?’ The answer to that question is no,” Attorney General Eric Holder wrote.
White House Press Secretary Jay Carney read the letter during his daily press briefing.
Paul said in an interview on CNN on Thursday that Holder's response was satisfactory and that he would allow a vote on the nomination of John Brennan to lead the Central Intelligence Agency. The vote is scheduled to begin shortly after 3 p.m. on Thursday.
Meanwhile, U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz and Paul introduce a bill today that would prohibit the killing of U.S. citizens on U.S. soil if they do not present an imminent threat.
“Our Constitution restrains government power,” said Cruz, a Texas Republican. “The federal government may not use drones to kill U.S. citizens on U.S. soil if they do not represent an imminent threat. The commander in chief does, of course, have the power to protect Americans from imminent attack, and nothing in this legislation interferes with that power.”
Earlier story:
Republicans split bitterly Thursday over a GOP senator's old-school filibuster of President Barack Obama's CIA nominee John Brennan amid claims that the administration could use drones to target Americans suspected of terrorism.
Just hours after Sen. Rand Paul ended his nearly 13-hour talkathon — and got an endorsement from Minority Leader and fellow Kentuckian Mitch McConnell — two senior Republicans on the Armed Services Committee dismissed Paul's claims as unfounded and ridiculous.
Both Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina also challenged members of their own party.
"To my Republican colleagues, I don't remember any of you coming down here suggesting that President Bush was going to kill anybody with a drone," Graham said in remarks on the Senate floor.
McCain scoffed at Paul's contention that the U.S. would have targeted actress Jane Fonda during her trip to Hanoi during the Vietnam War.
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"I must say that the use of Jane Fonda's name does evoke certain memories with me, and I must say that she is not my favorite American, but I also believe that, as odious as it was, Ms. Fonda acted within her constitutional rights," said McCain, a prisoner of war in Vietnam for 5½ years.
Graham said he had planned to vote against Brennan's nomination but now plans to support the nominee because the confirmation fight has become a referendum on the drone program.
Paul is pressing the administration for greater clarity on whether the Obama administration has the authority to use lethal force, such as a drone, against a suspected terrorist who is a U.S. citizen. Hours after the filibuster, the Republican leader said Paul deserves an answer.
"It simply doesn't have that right, and the administration should just answer the question," McConnell said. "There is no reason we cannot get this question answered today, and we should get this question answered today. Frankly, it should have been answered a long time ago."
The Obama administration has said it has not conducted such operations inside U.S. borders, nor does it intend to. Paul and backers said that wasn't good enough. They wanted the White House to rule out the possibility of them happening altogether.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said the Senate would vote to end the filibuster Saturday morning unless lawmakers can reach an agreement to vote earlier.
Paul's performance, which centered on questions about the possible use of drones against targets in the United States, clearly energized a number of his GOP colleagues, who came to the floor in a show of support and to share in the speaking duties. And even as the night progressed, Paul appeared invigorated despite being on his feet for so long. Actual talking filibusters have become rare in the Senate, where the rules are typically used in procedural ways to block the other party's agenda.
After Paul yielded the floor, Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., filed a motion to cut off debate on Brennan's nomination, setting up a vote for later this week.
Paul, a critic of Obama's drone policy, started just before noon Wednesday by demanding the president or Attorney General Eric Holder issue a statement assuring that the aircraft would not be used in the United States to kill terrorism suspects who are U.S. citizens. But by the time he left the Senate floor, Paul said he'd received no response.
Paul wasn't picky about the format, saying at one point he'd be happy with a telegram or a Tweet. Paul said he recognized he can't stop Brennan from being confirmed. But the nomination was the right vehicle for a debate over what the Obama White House believes are the limits of the federal government's ability to conduct lethal operations against suspected terrorists, he said.
"No president has the right to say he is judge, jury and executioner," Paul said.
The National Republican Senatorial Committee used Paul's stand to raise money for GOP candidates and said Thursday that they received donations "in the high five figures as of last tally."
About a dozen of Paul's colleagues who share his conservative views came to the floor to take turns speaking for him and trading questions. McConnell congratulated Paul for his "tenacity and for his conviction," and he called Brennan a "controversial nominee."
Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, read Twitter messages from people eager to "Stand With Rand." The Twitterverse, said Cruz, is "blowing up." And as the night went on, Cruz spoke for longer periods as Paul leaned against a desk across the floor. Cruz, an insurgent Republican with strong tea party backing, read passages from Shakespeare's "Henry V" and lines from the 1970 movie "Patton," starring George C. Scott.
Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., made references to rappers Jay-Z and Wiz Khalifa. Rubio, a possible GOP presidential candidate in 2016, chided the White House for failing to respond to Paul. "It's not a Republican question. It's not a conservative question," Rubio said. "It's a constitutional question."
The tea party-backed Paul first stepped onto the national stage in 2010 when he vanquished McConnell's chosen Senate candidate in a GOP primary in Kentucky. Since then, he's reveled in the popularity he has with the tea party and inherited his father's libertarian-leaning political network, built over two failed Ron Paul presidential runs. All that has stoked belief inside GOP circles that he may be positioning himself for a future national campaign, possibly as early as 2016.
Along with Cruz, Rubio and McConnell, other Republicans who joined Paul on the floor included Sens. Mike Lee of Utah, Jerry Moran of Kansas, John Barrasso of Wyoming, Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, Jeff Flake of Arizona, Tim Scott of South Carolina, John Thune of South Dakota and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., also made an appearance. Wyden has long pressed for greater oversight of the use of drones.
Holder came close to making the statement Paul wanted earlier Wednesday during an exchange with Cruz at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, according to Paul.
Cruz asked Holder if the Constitution allowed the federal government to kill on U.S. soil a U.S. citizen who doesn't pose an imminent threat. Holder said the situation was hypothetical, but he did not think that in that situation the use of a drone or lethal force would be appropriate. Cruz criticized Holder for not simply saying "no" in response.
In a letter sent Tuesday to Paul, Brennan said the CIA does not have authority to conduct lethal operations inside the U.S.
Holder told Paul in a March 4 letter that the federal government has not conducted such operations and has no intention of doing so. But Holder also wrote that he supposed it was possible under an "extraordinary circumstance" that the president would have no choice but to authorize the military to use lethal force inside U.S. borders. Holder cited the attacks at Pearl Harbor and on Sept. 11, 2001, as examples.
Paul said he did not dispute that the president has the authority to take swift and lethal action against an enemy who carried out a significant attack against the United States. But Paul said he was "alarmed" at how difficult it has been to get the administration to clearly define what qualifies as a legitimate target of a drone strike.
The record for the longest individual speech on the Senate floor belongs to former Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, who filibustered for 24 hours and 18 minutes against the Civil Rights Act of 1957.
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If confirmed, Brennan would replace Michael Morell, the CIA's deputy director who has been acting director since David Petraeus resigned in November after acknowledging an affair with his biographer.
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Yes, but do you trust him to decide what "Extrodinary Circumstances" are? I don't!
Richard
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Good for Rand. 8)
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Proud to call him my Senator! Met him at Knob Creek Gun Range, twice. Helluva good guy.
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You need to call his office and thank him and I have ;D
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Hi;
regardless of the response from Barry and his cronnies, it is all a twist of the wording....What "is" the definition of "is" ?
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The down side to Sen Paul's actions are the "OLD guard" Repubicans chastising him. McCain and his cronies are part of the problem and cannot stand it when the rookies get some well deserved attention. ::)
Thank you for your service Senator McCain but you can RETIRE NOW!
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The down side to Sen Paul's actions are the "OLD guard" Repubicans chastising him. McCain and his cronies are part of the problem and cannot stand it when the rookies get some well deserved attention. ::)
Thank you for your service Senator McCain but you can RETIRE NOW!
AMEN!!!!
The comments made by J. McCain - AZ, and L. Graham - SC were disgusting, vile and totally OFF base.
Sen. Paul had been asking for an answer to his question for a month and a half.
6 weeks and the only thing that got any response was a filibuster holding Barry and Eric by the throat and kicking them in the nuts repeatedly.
Since McCain is one of my Senators, I take his comments to mean he would rather be unemployed the next time he's up for re-election. Fat chance though - he won by 60% last time. ::)
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No surprise on this board how I feel. McCain should have been pushed into the Demo party back when he was threatening to leave the Repubs...and Graham...he's a traitor. In fact I think they both are.
I ask you...who is the better traitor to our nation...McCain, Graham or Benedict Arnold? I'm thinking that should be expanded a bit for a poll question.
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Well, let's see.
I don't know enough about Graham (Cracker) to comment on him other than making fun of his name.
McCain cost the tax payers at least one, possibly more, multi million dollar aircraft and has been living off the US tax payer since the day he enlisted.
Benedict Arnold fought several battles without pay helping to defeat Gen Burgoyne at Bennington/Saratoga, then sold inaccurate plans of West Point to the British.
I'm thinking McCain is the most expensive anyway.
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Well, let's see.
I don't know enough about Graham (Cracker) to comment on him other than making fun of his name.
McCain cost the tax payers at least one, possibly more, multi million dollar aircraft and has been living off the US tax payer since the day he enlisted. the day he was born!
Benedict Arnold fought several battles without pay helping to defeat Gen Burgoyne at Bennington/Saratoga, then sold inaccurate plans of West Point to the British.
I'm thinking McCain is the most expensive anyway.
Daddy was a Admiral...Johnny was born in Panama while daddy was stationed in the zone..
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I forgot about that, Granddaddy was an Admiral as well, so just like a welfare family three generations have been living of our taxes.
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I forgot about that, Granddaddy was an Admiral as well, so just like a welfare family three generations have been living of our taxes.
Tom
You of all people should know we got our money's worth. I don't like him either, but he flew and fought for our country and spent ten years in the Hanoi Hilton. Doesn't mean we should vote for him, but the man deserves respect.
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Tom
You of all people should know we got our money's worth. I don't like him either, but he flew and fought for our country and spent ten years in the Hanoi Hilton. Doesn't mean we should vote for him, but the man deserves respect.
I/we respect the fortitude the man showed during his ordeal in the HH. I/we respect him for the service he gave to his country.
Now, he's just a bloviating fool trying to extend his day in the sun.
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Tom
You of all people should know we got our money's worth. I don't like him either, but he flew and fought for our country and spent ten years in the Hanoi Hilton. Doesn't mean we should vote for him, but the man deserves respect.
Crap.
A heck of a lot of guys flew over those same targets and actually brought their planes back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain,_Jr.
During the Vietnam War, McCain was Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater from 1968 to 1972.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain,_Sr.
He was the father of Admiral John S. McCain, Jr.; they became the first father-son pair ever to achieve four star admiral rank in the U.S. Navy. He was the grandfather of U.S. Senator from Arizona and 2008 Republican presidential nominee Captain John S. McCain III, and the great-grandfather of John S. McCain IV. All four graduated from the United States Naval Academy.
If you think the son of that pair got treated the same as some one unconnected like John Stockdale I have a bridge you can buy cheap.
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Johnny was pretty good at crashing expensive aircraft! I believe it was three or four! Any one of us would have been given a pink slip after one or two! He was given a command at one point to keep him out of the seat..
At Annapolis, he enjoyed fast cars and loose women, I can respect that...lately, he's been a bitter disappointment!
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Johnny was pretty good at crashing expensive aircraft! I believe it was three or four! Any one of us would have been given a pink slip after one or two! He was given a command at one point to keep him out of the seat..
At Annapolis, he enjoyed fast cars and loose women, I can respect that...lately, he's been a bitter disappointment!
You mean when he was supposed to be learning about "Duty", "Honor", and the responsibilities of command ?