The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on March 07, 2013, 08:37:52 PM
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Watch Video. These are all played on modern platform games available today.
Make Your Own Call.
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Not unless you are totally devoid of knowing right from wrong, reality vs fantasy - which would totally qualify you for Congress.
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The video games today are the same platform (sometimes the same actual tool) law enforcement and military uses to desensitize participants into believing it is ok to kill, and they also use them to teach tactics. Do the play a role, combined with our society's loss of direction in understanding how to deal with stress and disappointment, you bet they do!
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I've had almost every gaming system that has come out, from Intellivision to PS3. Never killed anyone. I play COD Black Ops II every chance I get because I'm competing with myself...using reflexes, smarts, and my BRAIN in high speed, high tension circumstances. Normally the people I'm playing against are much better, quicker, and many have much better equipment and internet access, so you have to be quick to be effective.
When I play those games I'm competing - not killing. Shooting bad guys, shooting baskets, kicking footballs, throwing an uppercut, knight to queens' rook 4....it's a game.
I wish everyone would stop trying to take "crazy" and "shitty parenting" and blame it on something else.
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Yes Jay, there are millions of kids (and adults) who play these games and never have an urge to kill someone. However, there's an unprecedented number of kids on antidepressants and other drugs, prescribed or not, that can really make the difference. Whether it's due to shitty parenting, lazy doctoring, or both is up for debate.
The fact remains that when these kids take Ritalin, Xanax, or whatever else, their minds are altered. Take a kid who has some of these desires deep down inside, give them the drugs, desensitize them with the games and you've got your next school shooter.
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Yes Jay, there are millions of kids (and adults) who play these games and never have an urge to kill someone. However, there's an unprecedented number of kids on antidepressants and other drugs, prescribed or not, that can really make the difference. Whether it's due to shitty parenting, lazy doctoring, or both is up for debate.
The fact remains that when these kids take Ritalin, Xanax, or whatever else, their minds are altered. Take a kid who has some of these desires deep down inside, give them the drugs, desensitize them with the games and you've got your next school shooter.
Gosh. Almost sounds like it could be a plan.
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In my opinion the breakdown of the family has much more to do with society's ills than anything else.
Violent video games I guess could influence an already troubled person. But trying to pass laws trying to ban/restrict them aren't gong to solve anything.
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But trying to pass laws trying to ban/restrict them aren't gong to solve anything.
Where have I heard this sentiment before??
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I would like to point out that the poll is a fixed question. "Can" as used in that sentence is an absolute. All things are possible, some things are more plausible. I voted yes because I am sure that you "can" with enough research put together a link between the two.
That said, I think you have to ask yourself why you seek a one size fit all answer to a complex social problem. There are those in this world that feel that morality is bestowed upon us from generation to generation through ancient rituals and laws that are suppose to govern our conduct. Science has concluded that at the age of five most children begin to rationalize. If you were to ask a sample of children ages five to eight questions about morality they would almost all come to the conclusion that hurting others is wrong, breaking rules that do not harm others are more flexible. When you break our understanding of morality down to its basic forms you are left with some variables. Morality is rationalized by each person based on their experiences, morality is governed by the traditions we are brought up with and morality is directly related to the amount of knowledge that person has obtained about the world around them.
To learn more about this I highly recommend the book "The Righteous Mind" by; Johnathan Haidt.
When you have an understanding about the origin of morality you can begin to discuss other factors that play into the reasoning behind the aggression.
From a young age we cart our children off to a place that most hate. The buildings are massive catacombs full of hostile environments and small class rooms. There the child is criticized for every assignment they complete and forced to take greater amounts of work home to monopolize every minute of their lives. Forced to obey even the most ridiculous authority, there is no room for questioning the curriculum and even if you begin to understand a subject you are screamed at to move along to the next subject at breakneck speed because time is a stringent element of manipulation. You have no rights, no amendments, you will be cussed at and worse. The administration does not care for you and the moment you fail to curtail your childish twitching you are forced to swallow pill after pill of mind altering substance proven in every modernized society to be extremely harmful for growth and they ultimately force the user to become dependent on substances for the rest of their life to balance the chemicals in their brains.
I highly recommend that you seek out, "The War on Kids."
There will never be a one word answer to the problems that dog the most advanced and complex species to ever roam the planet. We have created an existence for ourselves that can create either the worst of monsters or at best the worst of people.
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This whole thread disgusts me.
What is so f**king hard to understand about the fact that some people are just f*cking mental and may be set off by reading "Rebbecca of Sunny Brook Farm".
All you people posting about "gaming platforms being used in training" are as full of sh!t as a Christmas Turkey.
They used to use BOOKS to train from, Fairbairn, and Applegate . Those were the days when a 10 year old could mail order an M 1 carbine and there weren't mass shootings.
I'm sick to death of hearing a bunch of pseudo intellectuals go on, who are no better than the anti's in their determination to avoid blaming f*cked up individuals.
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Yeah, but how do you really feel Tom?
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There's been a commercial running for the last couple of days that just rubs me the wrong way, and fits perfectly in this thread.
I don't know what game it's selling, so I'd never be able to find it, but it goes like this..
Early 30s guy has a bad morning, (burns toast, burns hand, spills something, etc.) trying to get out the door to get to work. Ater 8 or 9 "things, he turns to the camera and the voice over says something to the effect of "Go ahead".
Then it turns into the video game where this guy, (in game mode, of course) takes a sabre and chops everything around him in half, ending in a pic that identifies the guy as the guy in the game..
It encourages violent revenge against a world that is a pain in the ass.. (Kind of like road rage..)
If you're simple minded enough to fall for the ad, be it the game or "acting out" you're simple minded enough to be encouraged to do hurt somebody, even though "that guy" is the ultimate chicken shit of a person in doing so..
Don't forget the crazy pills and the effect they have on those who have them shoved down their throats.. They ain't sugar pills..
I think it would be beneficial to get video games out from under the kids noses for extended periods of time, and get em out in the woods with a walking stick and fishing pole..
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Yeah, but how do you really feel Tom?
Yes, I know, if I keep posting such sugar coated opinions I'll just give myself an ulcer. ;D
There's been a commercial running for the last couple of days that just rubs me the wrong way, and fits perfectly in this thread.
I don't know what game it's selling, so I'd never be able to find it, but it goes like this..
Early 30s guy has a bad morning, (burns toast, burns hand, spills something, etc.) trying to get out the door to get to work. Ater 8 or 9 "things, he turns to the camera and the voice over says something to the effect of "Go ahead".
Then it turns into the video game where this guy, (in game mode, of course) takes a sabre and chops everything around him in half, ending in a pic that identifies the guy as the guy in the game..
It encourages violent revenge against a world that is a pain in the ass.. (Kind of like road rage..)
If you're simple minded enough to fall for the ad, be it the game or "acting out" you're simple minded enough to be encouraged to do hurt somebody, even though "that guy" is the ultimate chicken shit of a person in doing so..
Don't forget the crazy pills and the effect they have on those who have them shoved down their throats.. They ain't sugar pills..
I think it would be beneficial to get video games out from under the kids noses for extended periods of time, and get em out in the woods with a walking stick and fishing pole..
Maybe we should ban NASCAR from TV since that encourages the "weak minded to speed on the roads and cars kill far more people than guns.
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Hey Santa... here's your commercial.
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Well, you can look at that commercial another way.
When it seems like the whole world is out to get you so thoroughly that even your shoe laces have turned on you, take it out on the Evil Things in our Video Game and leave the real world to muddle along as it may.
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Well, you can look at that commercial another way.
When it seems like the whole world is out to get you so thoroughly that even your shoe laces have turned on you, take it out on the Evil Things in our Video Game and leave the real world to muddle along as it may.
I finally agree with something Solus posted.
No matter how bad your day, if you kick something in a video game you don't have to worry about breaking a toe . ;D
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Not unless you are totally devoid of knowing right from wrong, reality vs fantasy - which would totally qualify you for Congress.
Bingo
I like playing every now and then games like COD or Battlefield I am not a hard core gamer by any means however i don't mind every now and then waisting a bit of time playing them
sniper elite v2 is one i am looking at has amazing graphics and very accurate details with out going though all the gory details though
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I think there is a major difference in people playing these games as adults (with a formed moral core) and preadolescent kids who are developing their values. The formation of the ability to think things through doesn't really kick in until the early twenties.
So, it is my thought that kids brought up on violence, be it gaming or real such as in Uganda, are much more likely to turn to violence in real life situations.
Do I have actual proof of this. Not really. I have completed no double blind studies on murderous little shites in modern society.
But, in each of the recent school shootings and mass murders, the perps were and had been active gamers.
Is it correlation or coincidence?
I honestly don't know.
But a lengthy series of coincidences is most unlikely.
FWIW
Crusader Rabbit
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I think there is a major difference in people playing these games as adults (with a formed moral core) and preadolescent kids who are developing their values. The formation of the ability to think things through doesn't really kick in until the early twenties.
So, it is my thought that kids brought up on violence, be it gaming or real such as in Uganda, are much more likely to turn to violence in real life situations.
Do I have actual proof of this. Not really. I have completed no double blind studies on murderous little shites in modern society.
But, in each of the recent school shootings and mass murders, the perps were and had been active gamers.
Is it correlation or coincidence?
I honestly don't know.
But a lengthy series of coincidences is most unlikely.
FWIW
Crusader Rabbit
So you are thinking that the zero tolerance policy about firearms might do some good in protecting youth from the influence of lethal weapons, actual or symbolic, until they are in their early 20s?
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So you are thinking that the zero tolerance policy about firearms might do some good in protecting youth from the influence of lethal weapons, actual or symbolic, until they are in their early 20s?
Quite the contrary...
While training with real weapons will most likely undertaken in an adult/child environment with simultaneous parental/authority-figure bonding, violent video games are most often played in isolation.
Training with real weapons is most likely a weekly or monthly session involving a socializing day at the range. Video games are played in socially isolating environments for hours on end on a daily basis.
Video games provide a horribly skewed perspective on violence, while firearms training develops healthy attitudes regarding force and violence. Violent games show nothing about the long term and emotionally devastating results of killing dozens of people.
In real life "video game" situations, such as experienced by the devastated children soldiers of Rwanda or Uganda, you have a similar every hour of every day situation. And these kids come out dangerously disturbed, if they come out at all.
So, while I think proper firearms training is appropriate for youngsters from about seven onwards, I think the isolating and mental programming aspects of violent video games should be restricted to those who have at least the frontal lobe development needed to understand that it is simply a game.
Until they have reached their early twenties, that development just does not exist.
Crusader
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Yes, I know, if I keep posting such sugar coated opinions I'll just give myself an ulcer. ;D
Maybe we should ban NASCAR from TV since that encourages the "weak minded to speed on the roads and cars kill far more people than guns.
Well, I've only been to a few races (bike and car) and , yeah, there are always a handful of morons that pretend they are on the track as they leave the parking lot an get on the main road.
If you think long-term exposure to "entertainment" doesn't impact your thought process you have to look no further than the current popular entertainment to see how it has changed the attitudes (good and bad) of our culture.
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Madden football is extremely popular, but we never see mass tacklings at schools or malls. Why are first person shooters the only games that are vilified. When I was younger Mike Tysons punch-out was very popular and some how people managed to not go on punching sprees. Also what video games was Charles Whitman playing before he snapped.
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Quite the contrary...
While training with real weapons will most likely undertaken in an adult/child environment with simultaneous parental/authority-figure bonding, violent video games are most often played in isolation.
Training with real weapons is most likely a weekly or monthly session involving a socializing day at the range. Video games are played in socially isolating environments for hours on end on a daily basis.
Video games provide a horribly skewed perspective on violence, while firearms training develops healthy attitudes regarding force and violence. Violent games show nothing about the long term and emotionally devastating results of killing dozens of people.
In real life "video game" situations, such as experienced by the devastated children soldiers of Rwanda or Uganda, you have a similar every hour of every day situation. And these kids come out dangerously disturbed, if they come out at all.
So, while I think proper firearms training is appropriate for youngsters from about seven onwards, I think the isolating and mental programming aspects of violent video games should be restricted to those who have at least the frontal lobe development needed to understand that it is simply a game.
Until they have reached their early twenties, that development just does not exist.
Crusader
I would say that the parent/authority bonding is the difference.
Do you think a kid who is taught that kind of respect would succumb to the "dark side" of video games no matter how alone they were when they played them?
My take is that it is the lack of the parent interaction/bonding that allows a video game to fill that void.
Add in all the other missing lessons in discipline and respect that are frowned upon in our current PC environment and you are getting near the real problem.
P.S. it wouldn't hurt if the parent got involved in video game playing with the kid.
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Madden football is extremely popular, but we never see mass tacklings at schools or malls. Why are first person shooters the only games that are vilified. When I was younger Mike Tysons punch-out was very popular and some how people managed to not go on punching sprees. Also what video games was Charles Whitman playing before he snapped.
Here's a thought, if you want to stop school shootings then quit calling the cops when 2 kids have a fist fight .
When most of us were kids if some one tried to bully you the 2 of you punched the crap out of each other and that was that.
2 kids do that today and the SWAT team shows up, and the whole school goes through therapy and anger management courses, there is a series of expose's on the local news, the parents are investigated and the school janitor gets fired .
With no middle ground other than just taking crap it is no wonder that some kids go to the extreme of shooting fellow students.
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With no middle ground other than just taking crap it is no wonder that some kids go to the extreme of shooting fellow students.
A correct statement.. Whether one is allowed to deal with someone or not, I've got no time for a bully, no matter who it's picking on.
(That's why I don't mind giving it back to you, Tom.. Because you're a pseudo-intellectual bully, and you don't intimidate me by your arrogance and condescension. You are, however, what you are. I'm not losing any sleep over you.)
And as for NASCAR, you don't have to drive with some of these simpletons that run the streets in Alabama, (one county over from Talladega).. These ADULT morons really do allow their imaginations get the best of them, and it really does get reflected in their driving.. And it's worse in the spring and summer, during race season, it seems.
There's alot more to it than that, I hope, but it's not sport driving. It's all about aggression..
Kids act out based on the kinds of things they're exposed to. They may use one tool or another, but they revert to baser instincts. It's what makes them kids, and not adults.. It's not necessarily age specific, either.. I had a guy in a warehouse one time, (a simple minded guy, maybe in his 30s) do his damnedest to run me over with a forklift because I called him down for doing something stupid.. I don't remember what it was, but I walked towards him and he hit the gas.. (It was in a track, so he could only go in the one direction..) I just stepped on the thing as it got to me, but he was trying to kill me.. He was stupid, so I let it go, but his mind processed information as did a child.. I wanted to beat the guy to death on the spot, but I'm not a child.. I don't have that excuse..
His actions had nothing to do with a video game. It was that he had the mind of a child (and an IQ maybe in the 60s), and acted out as a child does.
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Then why did these shootings not occur when most kids were familiar with guns and carried them to school during hunting season, but had the option of punching out a bully ?