The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: santahog on March 08, 2013, 09:49:16 PM
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Anybody get the feeling a mis-impression of what the Oath means could come from this commercial,
or am I getting overly cynical in my advancing age?..
(Remember, we're talking to know nothing recruits here..)
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I think you're a bit cynical. Hell, it beats the "Army of One" farce the Army was running. And it hits on the oath to the Constitution. (Might even make the kids read the the thing before they sign up, but maybe I'm a little drunk). Still, except for those stupide blue cammo pattern fatiques it seems like a good commercial.
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It does have a "Globalism" ring to it: "... and the fair treatment of all." And "A global force for good."
Nothing about defending one's country against its enemies.
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Yes, there is a certain feeling of globalism exhibited in this spot.
But, more disturbing to me in light of all the talk of assassinating American citizens without trial is the part where the young sailor says he will obey the orders of those appointed over me. I seem to recall the word lawful was inserted just before orders in the oath I took so many years ago.
I'm just sayin'
Crusader Rabbit
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The word lawful wasn't there in 1975 when I swore the oath but the UCMJ most certainly was!
"and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
That's where the "lawful" plays into the process!
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Yes, it's the UCMJ that says that you only obey LAWFUL orders.
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Yes, there is a certain feeling of globalism exhibited in this spot.
But, more disturbing to me in light of all the talk of assassinating American citizens without trial is the part where the young sailor says he will obey the orders of those appointed over me. I seem to recall the word lawful was inserted just before orders in the oath I took so many years ago.
I'm just sayin'
Crusader Rabbit
It does have a "Globalism" ring to it: "... and the fair treatment of all." And "A global force for good."
Nothing about defending one's country against its enemies.
I'm glad it wasn't just me...
Thanks..
Sometimes I feel like the green eyeshades are permanently affixed to my nose, and I'm losing my perspective/(maybe compassion)..
I don't want to turn into "that guy".
******
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Yes, it's the UCMJ that says that you only obey LAWFUL orders.
I worry about how many know the difference.
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JLawson,
A good question. Far too many look at it as just a paycheck and a free education.
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That would be suspect if the wording wasn't 20 years old
The "Sailors Creed" was written by a "Blue Ribbon Recruit Training Panel" in 1993 at the direction of Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Frank Kelso, who personally participated in the final edit of the working group's proposal. Admiral Kelso then directed that every recruit be given a copy and required to commit it to memory.
In 1994, Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jeremy Boorda approved a minor change which made the creed inclusively descriptive of all hands. The change involved replacing the word "bluejacket"; with "Navy," which describes the lowest enlisted rate, E-1, through the highest officer rank, O-10. After 1997 another change to the text occurred when the words "my superiors" were replaced with "those appointed over me." In today's Navy, the Sailor's Creed is memorized by all personnel in boot camp and has been incorporated in officer training as well.
All of the personnel in the uniform of Naval Service are Sailors first and in addition, they are officers, chiefs, petty officers - aviators, seabees, surface warriors and submariners. This is an important point impacting unity and esprit de corps.
The "global force for good" thing was thought up by a marketting firm in NYC and approved by Recruiting Command and they've been catching MUCH grief ever since from the CNO on down.
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I've been thinking about it and I don't remember anything like that for the army. We just had to know the Code of conduct for members of the armed forces of the United States. Especially Article I. We were asked that one a lot. I still have the wallet card I got in basic training in '79. The wording has been changed since then but this is the version I knew.
1. I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
2. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist.
3. If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
4. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information, or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
5. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am bound to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
6. I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
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When I went through Parris Island in 1977 we were given classes on specific articles of the UCMJ that we were most likely to encounter, ( or violate ;D ) the LAWFUL order clause was one of them as it tied into the Articles about Mutiny.
Note that the common charge against an individual is "Disobedience of a LAWFUL order".
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When I went through Parris Island in 1977 we were given classes on specific articles of the UCMJ that we were most likely to encounter, ( or violate ;D ) the LAWFUL order clause was one of them as it tied into the Articles about Mutiny.
Note that the common charge against an individual is "Disobedience of a LAWFUL order".
It beats "Silent insolence". I don't know when they took that one off the books, but God knows we'd both be sharing a cell in Leavenworth or Portsmouth if it were still there. ;D
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First off, Portsmouth, ( The Million Dollar Castle) has been closed and standing empty for 40 years.
One of my Drill Instructors was one of the last Guards there and we had hung out in some of the same places around the area.
Secondly, I'm not sure they did take "silent insolence" off the books, although that was from the old "Rocks and Shoals".