The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on April 10, 2013, 04:51:20 PM
-
Well, on the eve of the Senate cloture vote, here's what we've got. Some nutjob in Georgia has taken five firefighters hostage. If there is anything worse than harming kids, harming firfighters who come to your home after you call them has got to be up there. Please lord let this end peacfully and safely by tommorow (well, they can shoot the jackwagon, preferably many times), but safely for the firefighters. >:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/10/5-firefighters-taken-hostage-in-georgia/
-
With the "other" nut-job that set the house on fire and ambushed the firefighters a few months ago, perhaps arming firefighters would work.
I hope this ends with the BG approaching room temperature quickly.
-
With the "other" nut-job that set the house on fire and ambushed the firefighters a few months ago, perhaps arming firefighters would work.
I hope this ends with the BG approaching room temperature quickly.
No info on this one yet, but the last one was a PAROLED MURDERER.
-
No info on this one yet, but the last one was a PAROLED MURDERER.
Why do those two words not go together?
-
Just saw on DRUDGE the BG is on his way to the morgue and no firefighters were harmed.
That's about as good an outcome as you could get with this level of idiocy.
Crusader Rabbit
-
This is a point where you are all acting like the sheep.
You condemn the media as lying SOB's then believe everything they tell you.
The bank was taking his house, his lights, water, and even cell phone had been shut off.
I don't blame him for wanting to kill some one (Though he harmed NO ONE )
I'll wait for more information , but it sounds like a guy at the end of his rope committing suicide by cop.
-
With the "other" nut-job that set the house on fire and ambushed the firefighters a few months ago, perhaps arming firefighters would work.
Before I retired, I know one was armed.....{{whistling}}
-
This is a point where you are all acting like the sheep.
You condemn the media as lying SOB's then believe everything they tell you.
The bank was taking his house, his lights, water, and even cell phone had been shut off.
I don't blame him for wanting to kill some one (Though he harmed NO ONE )
I'll wait for more information , but it sounds like a guy at the end of his rope committing suicide by cop.
Then shoot a banker or a politician. What did a firefighter ever do to him? And if you want to off yourself, fine, its your life and the right to life means the right to end your life. But be man enough to do it yourself don't make some poor cop have to go through all the crap that comes with shooting you.
-
When the firefighter trap occurs overseas, we call it terrorism. Early reports had a swato being wounded, not specified if by the perp or friendly fire (nah, our cops wouldn't do that would they?). Regardless, this is how all such events will be ended from now on.
-
One news report said that he told the firefighters he called them because he knew that they were not armed. He obviously has never called "our" Fire Department. :-X
-
I'm not allowed to carry on duty but I know which volunteers are armed. I wish we were allowed to carry because we only have two guys on duty. We send one man on public service calls on the wrong side of town a lot. I'm waiting for someone to steal the truck.
You would be surprised at the number of people that are mad because we showed up. Its the a few minutes till we can get a Leo there we are easy targets.
You
-
Buy a keltec .32 or a Bond arms .357. Stick it in your front pocket. No one will ever know its there, not even if you hug them (keep it behind your cell phone). Thing is, neither is ideal,but both beat the crap out of nothing, and if you ever have to use it, getting in trouble at work is the least of your worries. Just my .02.
-
This is one of those very rare occasions where I agree with the Quaker .
Just carry it and keep your mouth shut , even you won't know you have it unless you need it .
Being alive and unemployed beats the crap out of obeying the rules but being dead.
This will increase your carry and concealment options,
http://www.amazon.com/Kel-Tec-Belt-Clip-Blue-P-32/dp/B002IWX5TG/ref=sr_1_18?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1365730365&sr=1-18&keywords=kel+tec+p3at
Same part will fit either the Kel Tec P -32 or the .380 P3AT.
-
You won't be unemployeed, you will be unemployable.
-
You won't be unemployeed, you will be unemployable.
FQ is right on this. Tab you would think that but I could get caught and fired. Then I would get a higher paying job in the oilfield, the next day. Its west Texas and oil is king.
I'm afraid this is going to cause more copy cats. They can make a phone call and get unarmed people to willingly walk right in the house. Not good.
-
in the past maybe, but not now. terminated for violating weapons policy is going to get your app shit canned. now granted there will be some that don't care, but very few.
-
I'm not allowed to carry on duty
Neither was I....fark 'em. I was looking for a job when I got this one.
You won't be unemployeed, you will be unemployable.
WTF? He would be damned unemployable with 37 stab wounds and a stomped in skull.
I know that people carrying guns and actually using them seems to cause a PSH moment with you but not everybody thinks the employee is disposable.
Your body may have left California but your BRAIN is still there. ::)
-
If you don't like your employers rule, then quit. any thing you do while on the clock, no matter how dumb, will hit your employer too. Example, you get drunk at lunch and get in a wreck, guess who is paying for that? have a nd at work, guess who is paying for that? yeah it would be great if people actually ownd up to things, but we all know that almost never does.
-
If you don't like your employers rule, then quit. any thing you do while on the clock, no matter how dumb, will hit your employer too. Example, you get drunk at lunch and get in a wreck, guess who is paying for that? have a nd at work, guess who is paying for that? yeah it would be great if people actually ownd up to things, but we all know that almost never does.
Knowing the bit of your history you have presented here, I expect you know how that would work. I also guess that your liability insurer might require you to restrict firearms at work to keep your coverage.
Now what needs to happen is that the employer is also liable for death, injuries and damages if employes are victims of workplace shootings or violence while forced to be unarmed by company policy.
I imagine if you personally were covering the risk, you might think the odds of a workplace incident are slim compared to the risk if misuse of a employee carried firearm....but maybe the insurance carrier might have such an event with one of their clients. Being faced with 30 or so wrongful death suits at once might give some balance.
-
Having a gun does not mean you can defend yourself.
-
Having a gun does not mean you can defend yourself.
And having one doesn't mean you will have an ND or shoot someone, so what is your objection to employees carrying?
-
If you don't like your employers rule, then quit. any thing you do while on the clock, no matter how dumb, will hit your employer too. Example, you get drunk at lunch and get in a wreck, guess who is paying for that? have a nd at work, guess who is paying for that? yeah it would be great if people actually ownd up to things, but we all know that almost never does.
Tab I have never heard of any fire department that is allowed to carry on duty. Unless I bring the beer in with me in the morning its gonna be hard to get drunk at lunch time. And Tab you dont know anything about the oilfield do you? I'm guessing you have never worked in it or around it. I have been away from it for four years and still get job offers
In all honestly as much as I would like to carry at work I probably never will because when we get a high angle rescue, my pockets are emptied except for my knife. Always need a knife.
Back to the original topic. I dont understand how one person can hold five firefighters hostage in such a small area. At some point one of them had to have gotten very close to the nutjob. The way I see it is if you get within arms reach its not your gun, its our gun. Were they tied up? If so did he tie them? Im not saying its a conspiracy, just some peoples actions of lack of confuse me.
-
And having one doesn't mean you will have an ND or shoot someone, so what is your objection to employees carrying?
My guess is he is worried about money. Not so much about his employees but more of what it could cost him if something did happen.
-
1St I have worked in the oil field. Lets just say if it needs a coating I have applied it. texas was by far the worst when it came to unsafe/illegal practices, but thats another thread. Let me ask you this, how much money can you spend right now to fix something, your teen age kid just did? 1000? 10000? 100000? 1000000? or more? its almost of the same thing with your employees only worse. It would not be hard at all to rack up 100k in medical bills alone for a nd, that was just a flesh wound. Even if all they did is put a hole some where, guess who is paying for that hole? I know guys that lost law suit becuase one of thier employees took a work car home( basicly stole it) and got in a wreck. I don't want to lose every thing over something a employee did. yeah that could always happen, but if I can limit the risk I am all for it. I SIGN THE CHECKS.
-
1St I have worked in the oil field. Lets just say if it needs a coating I have applied it. texas was by far the worst when it came to unsafe/illegal practices, but thats another thread. Let me ask you this, how much money can you spend right now to fix something, your teen age kid just did? 1000? 10000? 100000? 1000000? or more? its almost of the same thing with your employees only worse. It would not be hard at all to rack up 100k in medical bills alone for a nd, that was just a flesh wound. Even if all they did is put a hole some where, guess who is paying for that hole? I know guys that lost law suit becuase one of thier employees took a work car home( basicly stole it) and got in a wreck. I don't want to lose every thing over something a employee did. yeah that could always happen, but if I can limit the risk I am all for it. I SIGN THE CHECKS.
You sound just like the government. OK for me but not you. Sorry we are not as refined as y'all are on the west coast. How long were you here to see all this illegal stuff?
-
My guess is he is worried about money. Not so much about his employees but more of what it could cost him if something did happen.
You sound just like the government. OK for me but not you. Sorry we are not as refined as y'all are on the west coast. How long were you here to see all this illegal stuff?
That's TAB.
less than 32 Y/O and pretty much anti CCW for every one but him.
-
Not true at all, I beleave in employers having the right to tell you to leave it at home and so do property owners. I like texas 3006 law.
-
The 30.06 law only applies if you get caught and asked to leave. You are then trespassing. If its concealed how are they going to stop you.
-
The 30.06 law only applies if you get caught and asked to leave. You are then trespassing. If its concealed how are they going to stop you.
If you get caught carrying under a 30-06 law you are committing a crime in the State of Texas and you can be arrested and charged.
-
Which is why i like it. None of this asked to leave crap. Its a respect thing for me. They asked you not to do something, you should not go against thier wishes.
-
You won't be unemployeed, you will be unemployable.
Actually it totally depends on how it goes down. If you freak them out, they call the PD and you get arrested for a weapons charge and you lose all your guns and then you get convicted or plead and get parole then you have a record that can be searched by your next employer (actually done by a 3rd party that gives a go / no go report to avoid lawsuits) Makes it hard to get a job with an intelligent employer.
If you don't freak them out to the point the PD get involved, then you get to keep your guns and you don't get a record. In most places ex employers will only confirm that someone used to work for them. They will not give quality of work or reasons for termination references due to liability issues. You probably won't get unemployment, but your life is not ruined.
We had a case just like this and I worked very hard to get us to do option 2 because I did not want the guy with poor judgement to fixate on my company after we ruined his life. Unfortunately most supervisors and managers (here in CA) were so gun phobic that if I hadn't spent 3 days arguing with them I would have had a SWAT event in my plant with all the distress that brings with it. They just wanted to make the scary guy go away, it was hard to get them to see that the goal was to get him to go away and stay away!
make the choice that works for you, but don't think that the repercussions of a failure are going to be in proportion to the "crime" they most certainly will not be and you can't put the shit storm back in the bottle once it gets out.
-
Which is why i like it. None of this asked to leave crap. Its a respect thing for me. They asked you not to do something, you should not go against thier wishes.
So you want respect but you don't want to respect my tight to carry in a public place? That 3006 stops no one kinda like a gun free zone sign. Do you always unholster your gun before you go in a business that asks you not to?
-
i want you to repect my wishes on my property.
-
i want you to repect my wishes on my property.
What you don't know don't hurt you.
And if it is ever needed you'll be darned glad I had it.
-
and you can also bet I will sue you if you f..k up.
-
and you can also bet I will sue you if you f..k up.
Which bill do you want? Sue? That's how I know you are more concerned about money then respect. ND should be an arse whoopin. Stupid should hurt.
-
Having a nd on my property already showed you didn't respect me. Me kicking your ass means I lose.
-
I have no respect for people who automatically want to sue. Some people are not worth arguing with.
-
its simple, you do something dumb that cost me money, you pay for it. thats a very simple thing and one that every one should fallow. it does not work that way in the real world. Don't get me wrong there are some real slimball lawyers that sue over nothing or the wrong thing( spilling hot coffee comes to mind) that is not what I am talking about.
-
its simple, you do something dumb that cost me money, you pay for it. thats a very simple thing and one that every one should fallow. it does not work that way in the real world. Don't get me wrong there are some real slimball lawyers that sue over nothing or the wrong thing( spilling hot coffee comes to mind) that is not what I am talking about.
You just proved my point. You cab carry but your employees can't because your more worried about money then their life.
-
Do you know what I did for a living? did you also know what my weapons policy was? it may shock you, it was not a blanket no gun policy.
-
Do you know what I did for a living? did you also know what my weapons policy was? it may shock you, it was not a blanket no gun policy.
I don't really care what you do for a living but from what I gather you do coatings. Wanna cookie? From what you posted on here I find that hard to believe. Did they have to have liability insurance so it wouldn't cost you when they have the nd because you "know" its going to happen?
-
My policy was very simple, if you were legal in doing it( inculding storing if you could not carry it there) and had the property owners writen permission you were allowed to carry. I was a general contractor mainly working on 100+ year old home and I owned a energy aduiting company. I always payed my employees $10+ more a hour then the going rate, but I expected you to earn it. I always had guys all but beating down my door to be hired. I would love to see some real world numbers comparing the number of nd( and ad which are very rare) and the use of ccw for defense. any bets which would be higher?
-
My policy was very simple, if you were legal in doing it( inculding storing if you could not carry it there) and had the property owners writen permission you were allowed to carry. I was a general contractor mainly working on 100+ year old home and I owned a energy aduiting company. I always payed my employees $10+ more a hour then the going rate, but I expected you to earn it. I always had guys all but beating down my door to be hired. I would love to see some real world numbers comparing the number of nd( and ad which are very rare) and the use of ccw for defense. any bets which would be higher?
Its hard to argue with that policy. You were cool if the guy was legal. As to the client's permission? The client is always right. Wouldn't have bothered me at all (no surprise), but it might have bothered someone else and it ain't worth losing business over. Leave it locked in the vehichle if they don't want it there.
-
My policy was very simple, if you were legal in doing it( inculding storing if you could not carry it there) and had the property owners writen permission you were allowed to carry. I was a general contractor mainly working on 100+ year old home and I owned a energy aduiting company. I always payed my employees $10+ more a hour then the going rate, but I expected you to earn it. I always had guys all but beating down my door to be hired. I would love to see some real world numbers comparing the number of nd( and ad which are very rare) and the use of ccw for defense. any bets which would be higher?
Here are the self defense estimates
Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary wildly, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Getz cite between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64-65[2][3] Low end estimates by Hemenway cite approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[
So, 55,000 low, 2.5 million high...and middle estimates of 1,000,000. This from Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use
-
Here are the self defense estimates
Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary wildly, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Getz cite between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64-65[2][3] Low end estimates by Hemenway cite approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[
So, 55,000 low, 2.5 million high...and middle estimates of 1,000,000. This from Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use
Your research is from 20 years ago.
The Clinton administration tried to refute Kleck and Getz and came up with a higher number than they had .
get current information
www.gunfacts.info
-
We are talking about ccw, not just sd. Sac county sheriffs average 7 nds a year. So I know the number has to be high.
-
That's cops.
ND's for normal people are rare enough to make the news.
Often National news.
-
My policy was very simple, if you were legal in doing it( inculding storing if you could not carry it there) and had the property owners writen permission you were allowed to carry. I was a general contractor mainly working on 100+ year old home and I owned a energy aduiting company. I always payed my employees $10+ more a hour then the going rate, but I expected you to earn it. I always had guys all but beating down my door to be hired. I would love to see some real world numbers comparing the number of nd( and ad which are very rare) and the use of ccw for defense. any bets which would be higher?
If you would have said that earlier, I'd have shut up.
-
THats why its better to know then assume. its very hard to be a employer/ self employed. Its one of those things you don't know until you have done it. There is lots of bs laws to fallow. I will support any small business owner that is trying to make thier life easier/ less stressfull.
-
THats why its better to know then assume. its very hard to be a employer/ self employed. Its one of those things you don't know until you have done it. There is lots of bs laws to fallow. I will support any small business owner that is trying to make thier life easier/ less stressfull.
Don't get ahead of yourself there. Take a look at what you said in your posts And you'll see where I was coming from.
-
I never said anything about my employees only that I support some one that does not want ccw on thier property.
-
Let's see you went from everything is done illegal in west Texas oilfields with nothing to back it up to during anyone carrying on your property because they would have a nd. Did I miss anything?