The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: lhprop1 on April 17, 2013, 08:50:10 AM
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If this doesn't make you rage, nothing will. Video and more at link. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345714/free-cj-grisham
I just got off the phone with Army Master Sergeant. C. J. Grisham, a serving American soldier and veteran of the the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, who recently was illegally disarmed by the Temple Police Department while out for a walk with his son.
“We live out in the country in Texas, near Temple,” he told me. “My son and I were on a ten-mile hike so that he could earn his hiking merit badge – it’s the last badge he needs to become an Eagle Scout.” But half way into the hike, Grisham said, “a police officer pulled up.” Initially, he was “cordial” and he “asked what we were doing.” Grisham told him. “Then he looked at my rifle. I carry a rifle any time I walk around because there are feral hogs and cougars and things like that.”
From here, things took a turn for the worse.
“‘Where you going with that rifle?’ he asked me. I said, ‘does it matter? Am I breaking any laws?’” Then, he says, the officer “grabbed the rifle without telling me – but it was attached to me. My immediate reaction as a combat veteran was to grab it back and then take a step back. I asked him what he was doing. So he pulled his gun on me. Then I thought about my son, so I put my hands off my gun and he told me to move over to the car. Luckily my son had the video camera to document the hike for his merit badge. I told him to turn it on.”
The video of the incident is below. I’d recommend you watch the whole thing. Note the officers’ ignorance of the rules they are there to uphold, the suggestion that the law doesn’t apply in this “day and age,” and the persistent claim that American citzens are presumed to have their weapons illegally unless otherwise demonstrated. Note the officer’s claim that merely owning a gun makes someone dangerous. Note the conflation of a soldier in a war zone with a citizen in rural Texas. Note the presistent refusal to explain what law Grisham has broken.
Video and more at link. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345714/free-cj-grisham
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There is more too it. From what I'm hearing he had mental issues. One report was he was a stalker. I'll post the links if I can find them. I also believe this was in a neighborhood not in the country.
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That very well could be. Did you watch the video? It sure doesn't appear to be in a neighborhood. Not a house in sight and the road he was walking along seemed deserted.
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http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4187625/gonew/1/Police_Anti_Gun_Prosecutor_Cla#UNREAD
Link to a forum with a lot of information.
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bodean,
What's your evidence? Source? You make it sound like "hearsay" the way you laid it out. The video is pretty compelling, but would be illegal in MD if the officer objected to his voice being recorded. No charge, no Miranda...seems weird.
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Some background information. The incident is on the second page under Lights, Camera, Action.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/stalking-soldier-arrested-disarmed-by-texas-police-some-facts-opinion-and-analysis.htm (http://www.michaelyon-online.com/stalking-soldier-arrested-disarmed-by-texas-police-some-facts-opinion-and-analysis.htm)
A link to the full video on youtube.
A lot of it is hearsay. Its legal to carry a loaded long arm in Texas as long as it is done in a manner not to raise alarm. It is also legal for the officers to temporarily disarm him for the officers protection. I would assume that he merit badge his kid was trying to earn was for an actual hike not a walk down a road. This guy was looking for trouble and found it.
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The Officer's responses after he was disarmed does lead one to concern if this is the "norm".....Granted what happened prior to the start of filming is not known, the Gestapo factor needs to be considered after the fact, based on the Deputies responses.
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Handcuffs = Arrest
That's a legal definition. There was more than detention there.
And then there is the whole thing with these wanna-be-a-cop-thugs saying they do not have to follow the law. That was all I could stomach and quit watching.
If he has a mental problem and issues related then he should have been detained/arrested for that...rudely displaying a gun...go away with that junk. Any Uncle Fudd or nervous Nellie can call in anybody with a gun on that...even if a gun is in a gun case....and if wanna-be-a-cop-thugs like these are around and you are carrying a gun get ready to lick their boots and kiss their behind or be prepared for the minimum consequences of hiring a lawyer and getting your life back in order years later.
I don't care if he did have a mental problem. The "officer" (and I do say that with disrespect) gave no cause to do what he did to a citizen...a subject of a totalitarian state yes...but a citizen no. Just because the blue uniformed thug was all "nice" and wasn't cursing and screaming doesn't mean he was being righteous in the least....he knew he was being filmed and I hope he is just the ignorant product of public schools. And then to say they can disregard the law because they are the popo; that is not ignorance, it is arrogance and being drunk on power....c'mon where there is smoke there is fire and I'm gagging on the smoke watching this.
If he was a stalker arrest him for stalking. Why wait until he's walking on the road with a gun and his child (so they can endanger a child and show how bad ass they are to the public by instilling fear of their lawlessness)? Arrest for whatever stalking statutes they have should be made if there are legitimate charges...that is not what happened here. Mental case...gee, if he has that then why didn't they detain him with mental health professionals in an appropriate situation...not out in the open where the "nut with a gun" could shoot their behind off. We should use our heads and reflect on a situation and not just gobble smelly stuff down unless proven.
I'm sorry...it sounds like slurs to me without further evidence and there are a whole pile of Uncle Fudds out there who want "black rifles" to go away just as bad as Feinstein does. Fudds seem to think if we keep quiet we will keep below the radar and keep our gun rights...that was proven wrong in the 1960's and grass roots activism like the CCW push helped gain some rights back. Fudds believe their stuff just like shooting legal season does (female deer) was going to collapse the deer population in the South. Very passionate...very wrong...and concerning the 2nd Amendment a very dangerous attitude of appeasement.
Heck, I'm going to say he should have been arrested imitating a fire plug which endangers public safety since he could mislead the fire dept. into thinking he was a source of water for their fire fighting efforts so that's fraud and endangerment. That is just as good as being a mental loon and stalker...even better now because the wanna-be-a-cop-thugs have not disproved being an imitation fireplug on tape by arresting him for something other than imitating a fire plug.
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Rastus, well put.
I watched the whole thing, it made me sick, but it is in line with what I have been seeing LEOS do and think over the past few years.
Remember all the talk about the militarization of the LEOS? Most worrisome was not the hardware, but the mindset - us vs. "the enemy". Cops used to be trained to help, now LEOS are trained to view all of us as enemies until proven otherwise, and maybe not even then. And that they are exempt from the law, the thin blue line will protect them no matter what. Witness Harless in Ohio eligible to get his job back, after he threatened to kill a CCW holder during a stop.
No explanation for the arrest, once the big cop decided the hiker was going down, he was going down, one way or the other. Not even the sergeant bothered to tell him he was under arrest until they were about to load him in the car late in the altercation.
Hope a good lawyer picks this up pro bono. At the very least, get rid of the big cop from the force and get the weapons back.
Temple, TX, is in east central TX, south of Waco, and too far north of Austin to be within commuter distance. It's not a huge town, 66,000 people. If LEOS are behaving like this in the heart of TX, we are in deep crappola!
Oh, BTW, if the guy had "mental problems", he probably would have reacted very differently when the cop grabbed his rifle. Nice of some of you to fall right into the .gov trap wherein all vets have "mental problems", and need to be disarmed any way they can be.
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Papers Please......
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A little more on this guy...seems he is decorated and received a Bronze Star with Valor. Mental case...problem.... ? ?? Yeah, another one of the kind of guys anti-gun Obama, Feinstein, Biden, Bloomberg, Soros, etc. really, really, want to disarm.
http://chicksontheright.com/posts/item/24091-this-should-not-happen-in-america (http://chicksontheright.com/posts/item/24091-this-should-not-happen-in-america)
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The charges were reduced from resisting arrest to a class b misdemeanor. Which shows someone probably messed up. I would like to know if its normal for him to go hiking with the at or if he just decided to do it one morning. The officer should have checked him out because of the call but if both of them would have showed some respect to each other, this would have been avoided. All grishsam was guilty of was polo ( pi***** off a police officer. That's what I have cone to believe the more I look at it.
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Yeah, somebody messed up. I do think that Mst Sgt Grisham is an open carry advocate so it's likely he has carried before and could have been carrying in a manner that makes scared women pee down both legs. The guy could have been all those other bad things too but the way the story unfolded on video and the callous disregard of the US Constitution by the popo is what chilled me.
Yeah, let's arrest those bad open carry decorated veterans. Let's root them out of their careers and destroy them because they do nothing wrong other than something I don't like that I wish was illegal.
And by all means protect terrorists like officer Nidal Hasan who talked about killing Americans (and actually did, who would have thunk it?) who supports Al Qaeda, and who participated in communications with other muslim extremists....no problem there but we better damn well piss down both legs and cry for some kind of fascist authoritarian help when a veteran who believes in the 2nd Ammendment legally walks around with his son.
Why hasn't Hasan been fried, err...tried yet?
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The charges were reduced from resisting arrest to a class b misdemeanor. Which shows someone probably messed up. I would like to know if its normal for him to go hiking with the at or if he just decided to do it one morning. The officer should have checked him out because of the call but if both of them would have showed some respect to each other, this would have been avoided. All grishsam was guilty of was polo ( pi***** off a police officer. That's what I have cone to believe the more I look at it.
Agreed. This was an internet guy looking for a fight. I know Tx. gun law. I lived there and did the very thorough CHL class. He broke no laws. BUT one has to ask,why are you carrying and AR, why do you expect a cop not to ask you that, and finally, please, have an answer. "We were going to shoot, I was thinking I might see a feral hog".
But when it comes down to it, just put the damn rifle down and show some ID, have a civil conversation and odds are good you'll be on your way in 3 minutes. Now if the cop is a jerk and still arrests you? Well, there's that dashboard cam showing you were all sunshine and puppies which will play a whole lot better in front of a jury when you sue his department rather, than being belligerent. The guy was an idiot, and a jerk for dragging his kid into what knew was going to be a confrontation. This was just boneheaded on both sides.
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Funny any of you would have a problem with this guy.
Back when America rally was a free country you could walk, run or ride from NY to SF with a pistol on your hip and a rifle in your hands, LOADED, and no one would think twice about it.
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i use to ride my bike with a 22 straped to my back in front of the ca capital to go kill ground squrrels. I was never stop. I am relativly young. I am sure there is more to this story. CA lost open carry last year becuase assholes went around looking for confrontation. I saw the ban coming a mile away. my rule is when you try to push your rights down the throat of others, you are a ass hole and generally lose those rights for every one.
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i use to ride my bike with a 22 straped to my back in front of the ca capital to go kill ground squrrels. I was never stop. I am relativly young. I am sure there is more to this story. CA lost open carry last year becuase assholes went around looking for confrontation. I saw the ban coming a mile away. my rule is when you try to push your rights down the throat of others, you are a ass hole and generally lose those rights for every one.
+100. That's at least the excuse folks use for opposing gay rights. They always talk about the San Fran gay pride parade and other examples of deliberately offensive behavior. See how its worked for the gays? Shouldn't we be smarter? Tx. is a shall issue state. The guy could have carried a concealed 1911 and no one would have noticed, or said boo about if they did. An AR on single point sling? Yeah, he had the right to do it, but in what alternate reality was it the smart thing to do?
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Hi;
The Guy was on Glenn Beck yesterday, He and his Son were hiking to earn a Merit Badge in Scouting. The reason for carrying the weapon he said was due to any encounters with wild life ( I forget what kind was in the area ). What has not been discussed here is what the cops did to the son after dad was taken away. That in it's self may cause a lawsuit against the Police Dept. Basically, Dad told the son to not answer any questions until the son was with Mom. The police harrased the kid in the car to get him to talk. This is all according to the Dads statements on Glenn Beck.
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I'm with Rastus on this one,and the way the son was treated was just criminal,I hope some heads roll over this
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Fightingquaker you are a bit misguided on this issue first off the man was breaking no laws , secondly he was not suspected of committing a crime. Under Texas and Federal law he is not required to provide identification if he is not being investigated of committing a crime nor does he have to provide a reason for carry. The cop was overstepping the law I hope he gets charged with oppression and illegal detainment. Just because someone is supposed to enforce the law does not meen they know it.
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Fightingquaker you are a bit misguided on this issue first off the man was breaking no laws , secondly he was not suspected of committing a crime. Under Texas and Federal law he is not required to provide identification if he is not being investigated of committing a crime nor does he have to provide a reason for carry. The cop was overstepping the law I hope he gets charged with oppression and illegal detainment. Just because someone is supposed to enforce the law does not meen they know it.
Swamp, FQ is usually misguided on damn near every topic. He voted for bho BTW.
Look, all of you trashing the soldier or backing the cop, remember this. The first words out of the cop's mouth when he started to cuff the soldier was that the soldier was "rudely" carrying a rifle. That ain't against the law - the cop was wrong, top to bottom.
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I'm not arguing legalities here, just common sense. When talking with a cop while wearing a visible and immediately deployable weapon, rule one is to separate yourself from the weapon. Then have the conversation. It turns the volume down by many notches. Its not like you're going to shoot the officer, but he doesn't know that, and this lets him calm down as he is no longer concerned. If he wants to arrest you, he will, but its a PITA, not the end of the world as you were cooperative, within the law and on tape. But in Texas, I doubt it would have gone even that far. It was just two type A personalities meeting, neither showing any common sense and the guy with the badge won.
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I'm leery to support someone unless I know their full history. Plus this guy doesn't know the law. Even in Alaska or Arizona where you have permitless carry when confronted or pulled over by the police you will be disarmed for the duration of the stop. In Alaska you are required by law to notify the Trooper or officer you are armed. It's amazing that all the arm chair commando's are coming out to support this guy on THIS FORUM of all the forums out there. It's like nobody here has seen an episode of Best Defense's "How to talk to the police""How to not go to jail". Perhaps Michael needs to make a special episode just for the forums called "How to not act like an ass hat and keep out of jail". I've had the pleasure to meet and talk with a lot of cops. To almost a tee all have agreed, no matter what you've done if you act like a belligerent jackass you will take a trip to jail. I know there will be those who will say the cops should of done this or that, "nobody should have call the cops" and what not. The facts remain the only constant in this chaotic world is you. You can't stop incidents from happening all you can do is react appropriately. Act like a courteous adult and be on your way. Act like this guy and go to jail and probably lose your CCW/CHL.
PS This guy's pitiful the only thing wrong he didn't do was role around on the ground screaming "I know my rights!!!".
Here lies the body of Dan O'Shea,
Who died protecting his right of way.
His right was clear.
His will was strong.
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.
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Agreed. This was an internet guy looking for a fight. I know Tx. gun law. I lived there and did the very thorough CHL class. He broke no laws. BUT one has to ask,why are you carrying and AR, why do you expect a cop not to ask you that, and finally, please, have an answer. "We were going to shoot, I was thinking I might see a feral hog".
But when it comes down to it, just put the damn rifle down and show some ID, have a civil conversation and odds are good you'll be on your way in 3 minutes. Now if the cop is a jerk and still arrests you? Well, there's that dashboard cam showing you were all sunshine and puppies which will play a whole lot better in front of a jury when you sue his department rather, than being belligerent. The guy was an idiot, and a jerk for dragging his kid into what knew was going to be a confrontation. This was just boneheaded on both sides.
Oh hell yeah. The guy is a prick. He got what he wanted. He will probably get a lot of money out of it and some publicity. He doesn't need a reason to carry it,other then because he felt like it. Hell there's always a loaded rifle laying in my backseat. I just like having it.
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Oh hell yeah. The guy is a prick. He got what he wanted. He will probably get a lot of money out of it and some publicity. He doesn't need a reason to carry it,other then because he felt like it. Hell there's always a loaded rifle laying in my backseat. I just like having it.
MINE TOO
100% correct. A few months ago we had a guy from my neck of the woods held in jail up in Utah for forty some odd days till he decided to tell the police his name. People make things hard for themselves. I often go on on walks with my rifle. I've been approached by the law while shooting on public lands. Never had a problem. Why because I act like a respectful mature adult(even if every girlfriend I've ever had would go to court to testify to the contrary). I bet this guy starts complaining of neck pain. Whadda Ya Wanna Bet.
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Fightingquaker you are a bit misguided on this issue first off the man was breaking no laws , secondly he was not suspected of committing a crime. Under Texas and Federal law he is not required to provide identification if he is not being investigated of committing a crime nor does he have to provide a reason for carry. The cop was overstepping the law I hope he gets charged with oppression and illegal detainment. Just because someone is supposed to enforce the law does not meen they know it.
+100000000000000
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you do have to provide your name if asked.