The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: sefrein on May 31, 2013, 09:44:11 AM
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I am a concealed carry instructor and have carried a firearm for over thirty years and I have always stood by what I was taught by my stepfather who was a Marine corp pistol instructor and believed at least one to two reloads for your weapon was reasonable, but as of recently reading more than once articles in reliable publications about bad guys soaking up to 20+ rounds of 40 cal, or other rounds I am beginning to wonder? I always stress that accuracy and solid hits are the key based on good marksmanship skills, but in the real world the dynamics of a real gunfight 5-7 rounds seems really to imply you will be outgunned? I carried a small .380 pocket pistol for over 20 years and never felt outgunned but, I never had to use it in a life or death combat situation either.
High capacity weapon multiple mags 2 or more or realistic size weapon that you will carry 1 reload and become intimate with and practice shoot well ?
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I only carry a reload for my 1911/ de with my shoulder holster, mainly for balance. I do carry a speed loader for my colt dective. I don't see it as me being at risk, others might.
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I read some where about the "Rule of 3's".
Statistics claim the "average" SD shooting lasts 3 seconds, inside 3 yards, and involves 3 shots .
Your best bet is to become skilled with your weapon, if you can carry spare ammo that's better .
Consider this about those "20+ rounds of .40 cal", just like with real estate, location is everything .
If you shoot off an attackers fingers and toes you have scored 20 hits, and probably done no more than make him really mad .
The fact that you specify .40 cal indicates you were going with LEO reports , the most important thing to remember is that most cops shoot like crap .
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One more thing to consider about carrying a reload (which I don't on my person, there are two in my Backpack :-[ ) is that the vast majority of malfunctions can be dealt with by a mag change. I plan on getting a horizontal mag holder SOON, and I'll keep my two reloads in my back pack so with my XDM that'll give me a "combat load" of 54 rounds of +P 185 grain 45 ACP.
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One thing to remember here, what is perfect for Magoo or for me probably will not be so for you .
Circumstances, environment, wardrobe, and threat levels will all require consideration on an individual basis .
As with choice of fire arm, there is no one size fits all answer.
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It helps to carry a big stick! In the event of running short of a re-load, you can beat the perp to death..
Kinda like owning a Ruger...
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My EDC includes a SA subcompact (with 10 round 9mm mag). My feeling -- if I need more than 10 rounds to get out of a situation then my judgment and situational awareness has utterly fallen to sh**! That said, about half the time I have an extended, 15 round mag as backup; I get distracted. :)
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As much as you practically can.
There is no penalty for going home with extra ammo after a gun fight, but the penalty might be very high for coming up only one round short.
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I carry my extra ammo in a second gun, my primary is in my front pocket or IWB holster. The other one is carried in an ankle holster if I feel the need for it.
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Combat troops carry 6-8 mags, for their AR. 180-240 rds. It really adds up to 6-8 minutes of combat fire. Than a back-up, usually handgun, if they are even issued one, will get 2 spare mags. (I won't go into what the handgun is, as it really doesn't matter)
Weight, Weight, Weight, matters.
For personal carry, whether its my Kel-Tec P3AT or my S&W M&P compact, it is, and still remains, a personal comfort level with one spare mag in a pocket.
FWIW, as I celebrate diversity in personal carry, I carry a Bianchi speed strip when I carry my snub revolver, a spare mag for any and every semi auto IWB, and in the swamps of S. Florida where heavy clothing simply won't work, I still get spare mags in cargo shorts. Plus a Benchmade "clip" knife,.....to complement the other essentials.
It is very personal, all here can simply offer advice, but depending on your specific comfort level, what works for you, will work.
All the best.
tw
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As much as you practically can.
There is no penalty for going home with extra ammo after a gun fight, but the penalty might be very high for coming up only one round short.
Good answer. I wish holster makers would come up with a comfortable & affordable way to carry two mags IWB.
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Good answer. I wish holster makers would come up with a comfortable & affordable way to carry two mags IWB.
Crossbreed has a 2 mag IWB carrier. Don't know if it meets your requirements.
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/TuckableIWB/tabid/103/List/0/ProductID/16/CategoryID/1/Level/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
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Thats another reason why I like single stack mags( or very narrow doubles) they hide better.
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I always carry at least 1 reload and often 2 for my primary weapon. often 1 for my backup as well.
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I think just like you need to consider wardrobe for what you carry...consider it for how much as a max limit and what your firearm carries. What environment will you be in? Why are you carrying and how will you employ your firearm? How likely is it a drug-crazed zombie is going to threaten you when carrying that you did not see and avoid and who may be (temporarily) impervious to 5-6 rounds and still zero you out before he knows he should not be standing?
Of all the civilian gun incidents how many really needed a reload when the person who employed the weapon had some minimum competent skill level? I would think a very low percentage for any one incident and lower still based on increasing mag capacity. A five shot snubbie may need to carry a speed load...but my full sized M&P 9MM probably has plenty to cover 99.9% of everything you will encounter in a civilian setting.
I don't plan on protecting the world....just my family. I want to avoid confrontation and get out of Dodge without firing a shot is Plan A. If trapped and a life and death is forced on me (been there and did not have to fire) then Plan B is what is necessary to protect life and flee to safety. Getting into a full fledged fire fight I can't escape from unlikely...that's Plan C and I don't prepare for that when I go out. If I ever thought Plan C was afoot I'd stay home.
So...if I'm going to the office I don't need a reload. If I'm going to the pizza place...no reload needed. Going to the mall with the wife carrying an M&P in the summer...no reload for me.
Going to the mall around a holiday when haji might show his ass...I carry a reload. Do I need it...doubtful. The reload is not for shoot-em-up; it's for safely directing suppressive fire to get family the heck out of danger and not to shoot a bunch of people. I'm not carrying to enforce anything other than to attempt to provide an environment of what is minimally necessary to keep my family out-of-danger.
I think that TRAINING regularly is far more important than worrying about having a reload. Which reminds me....
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We can talk about the "Law of Averages", or 3 steps, 3 shots, and 3 seconds, but averages mean nothing to the guy who finds himself pinned down with a five shot snubbie, no reloads, and 3 dirtbags wanting to take him out of the witness pool. I trust my equipment, but I don't trust my luck, so I still carry a reload. Every survivor of a prolonged gunfight will tell you they were glad they had enough ammo, but would have liked to have more. While active shooters may look for special events, sometimes they just want to kill somebody and it doesn't matter if its 5 people at the Pizza Hut or 30 at the city park. Always be ready. ;)
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its what you feel confrotable with. There are experts that will insist you need to carry a full box or more. Then there are experts that will say something like " if you didn't solve the prob with the 1st 6, another 6 is not going to help."
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its what you feel confrotable with. There are experts that will insist you need to carry a full box or more. Then there are experts that will say something like " if you didn't solve the prob with the 1st 6, another 6 is not going to help."
I would stay away from that "expert". If you need more than 6, just give up...don't prepare for for the unexpected, give up instead.
Not the mental attitude I want to have while fighting for my life.
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so is should carry 4 glock 32 round mags? btw the expeter thatt said that was a guest of mr banes...
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so is should carry 4 glock 32 round mags? btw the expeter thatt said that was a guest of mr banes...
Like I said on this thread before...carry as much as as you practically can.
If it is practical for yo to carry 4 32rd Glock mags you would be foolish not to do all you can to protect yourself.
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I had a dream a few weeks ago where I was minding my own business in my house at night when someone appeared at my back patio door and was about to force their way in. My legs immediately turned to jello and I fell to the ground and couldn't get up or even move. I had to will myself to start crawling toward the bedroom where my handgun was, at which point I woke up. I realize it was just a dream, but it felt incredibly real, down to the clutter on our kitchen table. Since then, I have begun to heed the advice from MB about carrying whenever you can, wherever you can, including in your home. Also, now I'm a believer in another statement of his: if I get to choose what I have with me when facing a foe in a life or death encounter, I want to be able to call in an airstrike with a fighter plane to drop a 1000lb bomb on them or a helicopter with .50 cal machine guns, or an RPG, etc, etc. The point being, you want as much firepower as you can when you need it. Once I can actually find Hornady TAP again, my primary AR will be staying in the bedroom with at least 2 mags.
Back to the OP, I would agree with what has been said: as much as you can comfortably carry. For me, that is a mag of 13 rounds in the gun and another with 19 close by, either in a pocket when I can or in my EDC bag next to me when I am driving. I'd like to keep two more 19 round mags in the car and have a mag pouch on my belt as well, but that's not in the budget right now.
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I had a dream a few weeks ago where I was minding my own business in my house at night when someone appeared at my back patio door and was about to force their way in. My legs immediately turned to jello and I fell to the ground and couldn't get up or even move. I had to will myself to start crawling toward the bedroom where my handgun was, at which point I woke up. I realize it was just a dream, but it felt incredibly real, down to the clutter on our kitchen table. Since then, I have begun to heed the advice from MB about carrying whenever you can, wherever you can, including in your home. Also, now I'm a believer in another statement of his: if I get to choose what I have with me when facing a foe in a life or death encounter, I want to be able to call in an airstrike with a fighter plane to drop a 1000lb bomb on them or a helicopter with .50 cal machine guns, or an RPG, etc, etc. The point being, you want as much firepower as you can when you need it. Once I can actually find Hornady TAP again, my primary AR will be staying in the bedroom with at least 2 mags.
Back to the OP, I would agree with what has been said: as much as you can comfortably carry. For me, that is a mag of 13 rounds in the gun and another with 19 close by, either in a pocket when I can or in my EDC bag next to me when I am driving. I'd like to keep two more 19 round mags in the car and have a mag pouch on my belt as well, but that's not in the budget right now.
Marzie, I have had that same dream before...... legs turning to jello and muscles refusing to react to the brain's commands, and upon waking up it also felt 'real' to me. I've had dreams of equipment failures in times of need also.
I would calculate that many others who do their best to live in a state of preparedness have had the same psychological thriller play out in their dreams as well.
I carry all the time, even (and these days with the rise of home invasions, especially) in my home.
I have a standing statement, if a family member asks if I have a gun or knife, "I got my pants on, don't I?"...... ;D
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Still waiting on license here, what you describe are nightmares to me...
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Marzie, I have had that same dream before...... legs turning to jello and muscles refusing to react to the brain's commands, and upon waking up it also felt 'real' to me. I've had dreams of equipment failures in times of need also.
I would calculate that many others who do their best to live in a state of preparedness have had the same psychological thriller play out in their dreams as well.
I carry all the time, even (and these days with the rise of home invasions, especially) in my home.
I have a standing statement, if a family member asks if I have a gun or knife, "I got my pants on, don't I?"...... ;D
Mine is that the freaking trigger just will not budge, like the hammer was welded down .
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Mine is that the freaking trigger just will not budge, like the hammer was welded down .
Mine is that everything is going according to plan and working fine except the multiple hits are ineffective...good solid hits, just don't phase the target.
Don't every remember thinking of a head shot in the dream...I'll try that next time.
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Marzie, I have had that same dream before...... legs turning to jello and muscles refusing to react to the brain's commands, and upon waking up it also felt 'real' to me. I've had dreams of equipment failures in times of need also.
Mine is that the freaking trigger just will not budge, like the hammer was welded down .
Mine is that everything is going according to plan and working fine except the multiple hits are ineffective...good solid hits, just don't phase the target.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one! Thanks for the reassurance guys!