The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: JoeG on June 09, 2013, 02:56:34 PM
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OK so with the end of ammo as we know it dragging on, I am looking into casting bullets as a way to cope. I have some questions:
1. What melting and casting equipment do folks use and like or dislike?
2. Where do you get your lead and if you salvage it from a range backstop how do you clean it up and get all the junk out of it?
3. do you resize and what lube do you use?
On your mark, get set, start the thread drift
Joe
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Joe, back when I was casting bullets, I'd salvage discarded wheel weights from a tire store.
I also had a source for worn out lino-type metal.
The lino--type had a high tin content and it could be added to the soft lead to give it more hardness.
I don't imagine either sources are readily available now days...
About the crud in backstop lead..
If it is heavy, soak the lead in a bucket of water to soften it up and just pour out the water and let it dry...or rinse it if you want to be extra clean.
When you melt the lead, any impurities will float on top (almost everything is lighter than lead) so you really don't sanitized lead. That which floats to the top is called dross and can be skimmed off when the lead is melted and read to pour.
I used a Lee melting pot, similar to this model.
http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Production-Pot-Grey/dp/B000NOORXY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1370811014&sr=8-2&keywords=lee+lead+melting+pot
The arm operates a bottom spigot so there was no pouring of the lead. The spigot can deliver the molten lead right to your bullet molds.
Since I was doing sme "mixing" with lino-type, I would usually make up batches and pour it into an ingot mold, similar to this.
http://www.amazon.com/Lee-LP90029-Precision-Ingot-Mold/dp/B000N8JVM2/ref=pd_sim_sg_2
One thing I had gotten equipped to do but never explored was bullet swagging.
Swaging is where you put some soft lead in a copper bullet jacket and form the bullet in a strong reloading press using swaging dies. The dies will have different inserts for hollow point or other specifics.
For the lead, you can cast a slightly under caliber bullet using standard bullet molds or acquire some lead wire..which would probably be fairly expensive now days...it wasn't cheap back then.
I think that is all I can remember... Good Luck.
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I suggest the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for starters. You will probably have to buy your scrap lead unless you have a friend in the business. Make sure you melt and cast in a wellllllllll ventilated area!!!!!!!!! When I could get range lead free I just started my electric pot and when it was ready I made ingots and added range lead as I got it. Some of the junk burned off and the rest was skimmed off. Never empty your pot completely. Let it cool and restart from there...much easier. The first few drops might be bad until the mold gets up to temp. Cast a little add lead, never add wet lead because it will probable explode (water turning to steam and splattering lead all over!) let it come back up to temp and continue. You will get the hang of it after a while. Wear long sleeves and pants, gloves and safety glasses.
Richard
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The lino--type had a high tin content and it could be added to the soft lead to give it more hardness.
Is there any Lino-type left? How long since the last machine was retired?
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On your mark, get set, start the thread drift
Joe
You know us well ;D
I have no idea how they do it now , I have heard that wheel weights were best after linotype .
Back in the 70's my Dad and I were using a Coleman camp stove to melt lead for black powder guns .
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Is there any Lino-type left? How long since the last machine was retired?
I can't imagine any machines running ...even 3rd world outfits can afford desktop publishing easier than a linotype setup.
But, I have heard stories that a Dutchman got his hands on tons of the surplus linotype metal...put all of it in a abandoned mine somewhere out west. ...before he got lost.
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a comment... I started casting bullets for IHMSA metallic silhouette around 1979....if you are going to shoot rifle or magnum pistol calibers, with a powder other than Winchester Ball process powder, think about adding gas checks to keep the rear of the bullet from being burned off and destroying accuracy.... RCBS large production pot, and RCBS sizer luber... when I got into USPSA switched to two 4 cavity SAECO moulds and made my own lube from a modified Hoch formula.... 1/2 paraffin, 1/2 Vaseline as a plasticizer, and a couple of teaspoons of RCBS sizing lube was the Hoch formula to which I added bees wax in 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 ratios... be sure to flux the pot to prevent the accelerated loss of tin and antimony removed as dross (don't remove... just add some resizing lube and stir).... you can harden a bit if you drop into water, but be careful and don't put any culls back into the pot as commented above due to the danger of a steam explosion... I melted from wheel weights, cast, sized, loaded and shot 34,000 rounds the year I got my Dillon 450 (pre 550)
fast forward 30 years.... all lead compounds are poisonous....I had a blood serum lead level test a year or so ago, and my lead level was an 8.... I would not recommend hand casting for modern available cartridges, unless your are shooting something like Cowboy Action that requires lead projectiles.... there are commercial casters, especially those providing polymer or copper plated bullets available...especially with the USPS providing an "if it fits, it ships" policy as to shipping cost... I just received a back order from Precision Delta at about 16 weeks....things are improving... YMMV
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You can also pretty much forget about using wheel weights for scrap lead,the new wheel weights are either zinc or steel,the lead was a "ecological hazard" so no more lead... ::) ::)
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Thanks guys this was helpful. I got the Lyman book and have been reading it. I had to laugh that all the casting equipment in Midway is out of stock. Brownells does seem to have things in stock!
I found a local source of ingots
http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm
and their prices are not bad if I can stretch it by mixing with range lead. The funny thing is when I looked at the backstop at the local range there is so much lead in there i couldn't see any dirt! That is what got me thinking about this at least for 38 and 44 as I don't have any bullets for those and lead would be a good option.
I have been loading copper plated for 45 and 9 for USPSA and still have some inventory.
I really don't need another thing to to do, but it does seem kind of prudent to have worked out the kinks for an alternate source!
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I did some casting years ago for Black Powder. I did it mostly for fun also. If your just looking for something to shoot there is all the bullets you need in lead out there. Our locale company has every thing in stock. http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/ (http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/) They produce a great product, Check there reviews on the web. They ship very quickly and keep the costs down. I use there bullets in 44,41 357, 9mm and 40S&W and have had no problems even with leading with there Standard Hard Cast Bullets.
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I started casting a few years ago; Shotgun slugs out of a chicken can melted on a Coleman stove. I have progressed, now using a cast iron pot on a turkey fryer burner and a ladle. Last year I cast 15000 9mm and 10000 45acp this way. I have a couple of tire shops that I get my weights from, and I cast it as is. You can also buy smelted WW lead off of ebay for just over $1/lb or there about. There are some places that will sell you ingots for around $3/lb if you want to go that route.
I size in a Lee sizer using White Label Lube.
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I started casting a few years ago; Shotgun slugs out of a chicken can melted on a Coleman stove. I have progressed, now using a cast iron pot on a turkey fryer burner and a ladle. Last year I cast 15000 9mm and 10000 45acp this way. I have a couple of tire shops that I get my weights from, and I cast it as is. You can also buy smelted WW lead off of ebay for just over $1/lb or there about. There are some places that will sell you ingots for around $3/lb if you want to go that route.
I size in a Lee sizer using White Label Lube.
How do the bullets cast from straight weights shoot with regard to leading/fouling?
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Thanks for the tips guys. I ordered some 9 and 38 from the Bullet Works and the Rim Rock site seems good as well so I will give them a test order this weekend.
I may still get around to casting some day as it seems interesting after reading the Lyman book and the sections in the Lee book.
I have been ordering stuff mostly from Midway and mid South and their shelves have been empty for quite a while.
Do you all have any sources for powder? I won't even mention primers... :)
Joe
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http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
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How do the bullets cast from straight weights shoot with regard to leading/fouling?
PegLeg, they are fine. I have tested the hardness, and it usually comes in around 12 or so. My CZ's get very little leading, my son's XDm 5.25 got a bit of leading (at the leade and end of the barrel) until I fired about 500 jacketed through it to smooth it out (only shot lead in it from new). My Sig 1911, also a lead only shooter, gets a little in the throat. Mind you I am cleaning at 700 to 1000 rounds. In other words, I get about the same amount of leading (very little) that I also got from buying commercial cast bullets with a BHN of 18.
I have become better over time with the casting, but overall they still are not pretty (compared to commercial). I did get a WHOLE lot better with the luber. :D I have the boys do their 9mm size/lube, and they still have a ways to go in that department..
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Thanks for the info, Bidah.... I have thought about using straight weights for a while, just to get started doing my own casting. I have a good friend that runs a tire store and I am in the process of trying to work a deal with him for old weights.
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OK so with the end of ammo as we know it dragging on, I am looking into casting bullets as a way to cope. I have some questions:
1. What melting and casting equipment do folks use and like or dislike?
2. Where do you get your lead and if you salvage it from a range backstop how do you clean it up and get all the junk out of it?
3. do you resize and what lube do you use?
On your mark, get set, start the thread drift
Joe
1. Propane fired turkey fryer base with a cast iron dutch oven to render all the crap into useable ingots. Use a Rowell bottom pour ladle to dip the molten lead out of the dutch oven into ingot moulds I made myself. Before that I stir the melt with a pine stick. I suppose it acts like flux. All the crap that then floats spins around and spins to the middle. That makes it easier for me to grab any wheelweight clips and other dross with a long handled perforated spoon like you'd see at a cafeteria dishing out green beans. Then the clean ingots go into my 20 pound RCBS pro melt furnace. I have only 4 of the Lyman steel 4 banger pistol moulds.
2. I had a friend who was a mechanic at a Toyota dealership. He and his girlfriend would shoot a lot of trap and skeet. I made my own birdshot maker from scratch. He would bring me 100 pounds in wheelweights, and I would bring 50 pounds of birdshot. So I kept the other lead for myself. I am also a member of a gunclub which has like a steel backstopped pit area for bowling pin matches. I'll scoop the bullets and sand from there.
3. a Star Lube sizer which I never did get timed just right. I probably got the holes in the sizing dies drilled in the wrong spot. But that might not matter if I start powder coating boolits
Now for the thread drift, I used to shoot an IDPA style match every Tuesday night at an indoor range. My blood lead levels were the highest when I shot there. I stopped shooting there, picked up casting and making shot, and my lead levels continued to drop.
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I have been recovering lead shot form the back of the trap range.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/8844186134/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/8844186134/) Recovered lead
These I cast with an attempt at a rocket stove in a tin can. I then dump that into a cupcake pan. This gives me ingots. These work just fine as long as I do not let my Lee bottom pore pot to get so low that the round "muffins" do not reach the molten lead at the bottom.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/8844187302/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/8844187302/in/photostream/) Stove
Low budget recovery.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/8843564869/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/8843564869/) "muffins"
Plus the "muffins" are easy to store.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/9433253350/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimisod/9433253350/) Castings in 9mm and 45
Sorry I cannot get the post pictures to work from Flickr.
I do have to say that the recovery is a lot of work and time, but it keeps me out of trouble.
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I've been thinking about taking the plunge and start casting my own because I just can't afford the $100 a month it would take to shoot just a 1000 rounds. The thing that keeps me from pulling the trigger, pun intended ;D, is I don't have a lead source-locally. My son used to work at a tire store that catered to farmers but in MT. I try to coerce them into bringing a bucket down, or two/three/ten, when ever my family comes down but so far it hasn't panned out. 230 LRN are 35 per pound, I can buy 500 for about $50. So to buy lead and make 500 is just over $14 at a buck a pound-not bad but not free either.
If/when I do pull the trigger I'll go the tumble lube way because of the price of a luber, they are awefully proud of their stuff-not as much as the swagers though. :o