The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on July 02, 2013, 08:53:49 PM
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No one mentioning the 2nd biggest gun related anniversary of the month ?
150 years ago this week America fought the most famous battle of the Civil war.
The battles 3 days, July 1, 2, and 3 each featured an incident of desperate combat that will live in American history forever.
On July 1 1863 a brigade of cavalry, (mostly Michagander's Tim ) under the command of John Buford spotted Confederate troops approaching a small crossroads town called Gettysburg Pa.
Knowing he had to stop them in order to preserve the favorable terrain for the Union forces his 1200 men held off the entire division of Confederate General Henry Heth until late afternoon when he was finally relieved by the Union I Corps under Gen John Reynolds.
Reynolds, acclaimed by the officers of both sides as the best General in the Union Army, was, like Lee, a former Commandant of the Military Academy at West Point . He was killed by a sniper shortly after arriving on the field .
But Buford's stand had saved the day and preserved for the Army of the Potomac the "good ground" .
http://www.civilwarhome.com/buforddefense.htm
The following day Col Joshua Chamberlain and the 300 men of the 20th Me regiment were placed on the extreme left of the Union line with orders to " hold, no matter what" .
When Hood's Texas troops came up the Emmettsburg road planning to roll up the entire Union line, they did just that .
When his remaining 150 troops faced one last assault with ammunition gone, Chamberlain, a former professor of rhetoric at Maine's Bowdion College, gave the only orders he could think of, "Fix bayonets, Charge !"
For the first time in 3 long years Union troops watched as Hoods broken Texans fled in terror.
http://www.totalgettysburg.com/20th-maine.html
On the 3rd day, Lee, out of fancy ideas reasoned he had attacked the Union right and been held, he had attacked the Union left and been held . "Those people" could not be strong every where so he launched Longstreet's entire corps toward a clump of trees at the center of the Union line .
10,000 men started walking across a mile of meadowland and fields under constant artillery fire from massed Union guns that had not been bothered by the Confederate barrage .
They damned near broke the Union line but the massed artillery, and rifle fire was just to much, Lewis Armistead, made the deepest penetration of the Union lines, he was shot down with one hand on a Union cannon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickett%27s_Charge
Gen George Gordon Meade, the Union commander, and winner of the battle had been given command on June 28, 3 days before the battle opened.
While the Union forces held Lee's Army of Northern Va, the battle was essentially a draw, it ended because Lee, low on supplies, could not think of anything else to try and decided to withdraw back to Va.
But the effects of the battle, the used up supplies, loss of morale, and huge losses among the best officers and men sounded the death knell of the Confederacy.
After Gettysburg it was only a matter of time.
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It was the largest land battle ever fought in this hemisphere.
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On the third day, JEB Stuart, who had been absent and therefore inconsequential to the battle for the first 2 days, was ordered by Lee to sweep to the east of Cemetery Ridge, and then cut west across the ridge to support the infantry charge, and hopefully divide the Union troops. Then Lee could destroy each of the 2 divided Union forces in detail.
As Stuart led his 12-15,000 strong cavalry troops in column down the road, they were met head on by a much smaller (ca. 4,000) Union cavalry force. Although the Confederates resisted briefly, the attack threw his entire line into confusion, and Stuart shortly led his column off the field, retreating the way he had come. So, for the 3rd day, Stuart's cavalry force was again inconsequential as a military force in the Gettysburg battle.
One of the 2 generals of the Union cavalry was George Armstrong Custer, leading a Michigan cavalry brigade. When he saw Stuart's troops, Custer immediately drew his sword, and yelled to his men - Come on you Wolverines!!! - and led the attack.
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If only he'd had an AK to hold over his head he would have really whupped them. ;D
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I don't believe Custer was a General in the regular Army and he's not from Michigan either. He was born in Ohio...and not the brightest lad to have graduated the Academy...a bit of a prankster!
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Custer was a Brevet General, until late in the 19th century Officers were awarded war time promotions, or brevet's instead of medals, for meritorious acts.
Most Officers, though not all reverted to their official ranks at the wars end, Joshua Chamberlain retained his rank while Custer reverted to Lt Col.
The fact that Custer was not from Mich. is irrelevant, the Army gave him command of the Michigan Calvary.
He and Confederate George Pickett both graduated at the bottom of their respective classes at West Point, Confederate John Bell Hood was expelled for breaking a plate over the head of Jubal Early who would also become a renowned Confederate General.
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Custer was a Brevet General, until late in the 19th century Officers were awarded war time promotions, or brevet's instead of medals, for meritorious acts.
Most Officers, though not all reverted to their official ranks at the wars end, Joshua Chamberlain retained his rank while Custer reverted to Lt Col.
The fact that Custer was not from Mich. is irrelevant, the Army gave him command of the Michigan Calvary.
He and Confederate George Pickett both graduated at the bottom of their respective classes at West Point, Confederate John Bell Hood was expelled for breaking a plate over the head of Jubal Early who would also become a renowned Confederate General.
Maybe their instructors were right when it came to those two.
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The fact that Custer was not from Mich. is irrelevant, the Army gave him command of the Michigan Calvary.
The horror...to put a Buckeye in charge of a bunch of Wolverines! :)
Either way, everything I've ever read about GA Custer suggest he was arrogant ass and not too bright...but I'm not a big history scholar either!
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Custer was an azzhole as a person, but he was actually a very good Calvary officer.
His tactics at Little Bighorn were a classic example of exactly what Calvary were intended to do, the "lightning strike" utilizing surprise, speed, and fire power to sow confusion and create the illusion of a much larger force .
What killed Custer was that he lost the element of surprise and the Indians, who numbered about 3X what he thought, reacted much faster than he expected .
Maybe their instructors were right when it came to those two.
FQ, have you ever actually read anything about either man ?
Custer I covered above, but Georgie Pickett was also a fine officer, steady as a rock under fire, and always ready with a joke, prank, or well told story in camp .
Until the evening of July 2nd 1863 .
He never forgave Lee or Longstreet for the destruction of his division and it badly effected his performance in the withdrawal from Petersburg in the spring of '65.
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Custer was born in Ohio and raised in Monroe, MI. I believe he married a Michigan woman of high standing.
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Custer was an azzhole as a person, but he was actually a very good Calvary officer.
His tactics at Little Bighorn were a classic example of exactly what Calvary were intended to do, the "lightning strike" utilizing surprise, speed, and fire power to sow confusion and create the illusion of a much larger force .
What killed Custer was that he lost the element of surprise and the Indians, who numbered about 3X what he thought, reacted much faster than he expected .
He was up against a force protecting their own back yard! The Lakota, Cheyenne and other tribes used the same tactics didn't they? Hit fast, hit hard, and know when to retreat but they were better horsemen and better armed! From what I've read and seen (granted it was produced by a Native American) on the HC, Custer screwed the pooch... Killed half his damn family, didn't he? His mind was set on annihilation and the reverse happened...arrogance!
Not arguing, just curios because I can't stand non-fiction...reminds me of reading GE specifications... ;D
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Custer was outgunned as far as repeating arms go. The Calvary was equipped with .45 Colt 1873 revolvers and 1873 Springfield 45-70 carbines. Both good weapons, but the Indians were thought to have quite a few repeating rifles such as Henrys, Spencers, and Winchesters.
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Custer was outgunned as far as repeating arms go. The Calvary was equipped with .45 Colt 1873 revolvers and 1873 Springfield 45-70 carbines. Both good weapons, but the Indians were thought to have quite a few repeating rifles such as Henrys, Spencers, and Winchesters.
Kind of funny really.
Winchester used the slogan "The gun that won the West", but since the army was using Trapdoor Springfield's it was actually the gun that LOST the West .
While it is true that a large portion of the civilian population owned and used Winchester's, they were focused on self defense and not militarily significant.
He was up against a force protecting their own back yard! The Lakota, Cheyenne and other tribes used the same tactics didn't they? ........................snip.........................................
Not arguing, just curios because I can't stand non-fiction...reminds me of reading GE specifications... ;D
You just aren't reading the right authors . ;D
There is also a lot of very accurate "Historical fiction" that may have a fictional story with an incredibly accurate background.
One example that leaps to mind is the Shaara series of 4 books
1 "Gone for Soldiers" covers the Mexican war introducing young men like Capt R. L.Lee , Lt Thomas Jackson, and Lt. U.S. "SamGrant,
2"Gods and Generals" covers the period up till June 30th 1863
3 " The Killer Angel's" is about the battle of Gettysburg
4 "The Last Full Measure" covers the rest of the war .
But to answer your question, yes, the plains Indians, Lakota, Cheyenne, and Kiowa were considered by many international military experts to be the finest light Calvary in the world.
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If you ever get the chance, go to Gettysburg and visit the battle site.......The movies and TV shows do not do justice to the scope of it.
Back in June we were preparring to cancel a vacation we had planned (to visit some relatives of the wife's in Philladelphia) due to our oldest going through chemo, but he had two off weeks and told us if we didn't go, we might not get the chance later (we had already rescheduled four times in a year).
On the way home, we decided to use a different route and swung over through Gettysburg.
It was the highlight of my trip.....
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