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Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: Magoo541 on July 12, 2013, 05:35:59 PM

Title: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 12, 2013, 05:35:59 PM
Over the Independence day weekend I took my dad and his two rifles, 308 and 270, to zero in his rifles after I played musical scopes.  Long story short we, but that I mean ME, shot a 308 through the 270.  An inch low at 50 yards but dead center  ;D.  When I went to remove the spent case I tore the bottom half off leaving the rest in the chamber.  I have tried a lot of things and the only thing left I can find, short of running a chamber reamer through it, is to do a chamber cast and drive it out.  So I'll order some of that alloy tonight but in the mean time any other ideas.

Thanks in advance!

BTW we found two different powders N160 and H4381 and two different bullets 140 GK and 150 SST for the 270 and CCI primers! 
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Timothy on July 12, 2013, 05:52:28 PM
I can't help but when I talk to a friend on Monday, I can explain what they did to remove a round from the chamber of his Bushy!

He'd been shooting some Tulamo 5.56, steel cased on a hot day.  Shot 20 rounds, move to another firearm, came back and fired another 20, etc..  The last mag he loaded, he fired the first round, the Bushmaster cycled and went "click"!  Hang fire...he looked and it appeared to be a live round chambered and wouldn't let the bolt go into battery.  A slight indentation was noticed but he made sure it was safe and went home shortly after.  He couldn't get the cartridge to budge.

He tried to pop it out with a wooden dowel as was suggested by a Marine I know but to no avail.  It turns out what happened was the extractor ripped the rim of the case off the spent round and the rifle cycled another INSIDE the spent casing that was stuck in the chamber.  He took the rifle to a smithy for extraction!

I'll post the corrective action when I know it.  I told my friend to stop using Russian ammo.....
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 12, 2013, 07:38:01 PM
Short of soaking the chamber in hot caustic (to disolve the non-ferrous brass)......a chamber reamer and patience (or a really good gunsmith) is all I can come up with.

Good Luck!!
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: TAB on July 14, 2013, 02:09:01 PM
I know guys have used things like screw outs or insdie pipe wrenchs to get them out.  i have never tried those so I can't speak to how well they work.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 14, 2013, 02:40:11 PM
I know guys have used things like screw outs or insdie pipe wrenchs to get them out.  i have never tried those so I can't speak to how well they work.

Don't know why that didn't come to mind..... I've used those hundreds of times to get broken bolts and screws out.

An EZ-Out screw extractor just might work..... if you go slow and use an extention.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/toolsplus_2272_84800103)
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: alfsauve on July 14, 2013, 04:58:16 PM
O think I'd just let a smith take care of it.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: ellis4538 on July 14, 2013, 05:31:04 PM
ME TOO!!!!!  No think about it, I'd run not walk to my gs. 

Richard

PS:  Dremel tools and sharp pointy objects are not my friend.  I'm on gun forums because I think it would be KOOL to be able to shoot...LOL
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: alfsauve on July 14, 2013, 08:46:40 PM
Maybe Michael Bane and his magic  Dremel tool could give a wack at it?  ;D
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 15, 2013, 08:31:04 AM
Any money I spend on a 'smith is coming out of my reloading $$$ and I'm pretty handy with a lathe, so if worse comes to worse I'll pull the barrel and kiss it enough with a solid carbide boring bar to get it out.  I REALLY don't want to do that though. 8)
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: TAB on July 15, 2013, 09:44:25 AM
I have never seen a case not come out if cast correctly.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: philw on July 15, 2013, 10:22:44 AM
glad I got one of these for my .303

(http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_100003126_1.jpg)

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/stuck-case-removers/303-british-broken-shell-extractor-sku100005994-24626-77517.aspx

you might be able to get one for your rifle as well.. :)
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 15, 2013, 03:54:55 PM
That would have worked Phil, if I had shot a 270 out of it but it was a 308 that I'm sure is bigger that that now...  :-\
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: philw on July 16, 2013, 06:32:03 AM
That would have worked Phil, if I had shot a 270 out of it but it was a 308 that I'm sure is bigger that that now...  :-\

seeings it is now a case formed to the 270   you never know  it might work
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2013, 10:52:07 AM
i would be very intrested  to know what it did to the barrel
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: kmitch200 on July 16, 2013, 03:40:41 PM
i would be very intrested  to know what it did to the barrel

I'm kinda curious about that too...how did you get a .308 diameter bullet down a .277 tube?
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 17, 2013, 09:18:49 AM
I'm kinda curious about that too...how did you get a .308 diameter bullet down a .277 tube?

Very carefully  ;D

Actually copper and lead are pretty malleable so a .031" interference at ~2600 fps is surmountable but not impossible-as I unintentionally proved.  I'm not too worried about the barrel but I will do some investigation/measuring before I start working up loads for it AFTER I get the case out (note to self order the stuff already!).
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Solus on July 17, 2013, 12:33:08 PM
I'm not a machinist, so I wonder how a case neck holding a .308 bullet fit into a chamber made for a case neck holding a .277 bullet?

Are the tolerances wide enough for that .031 not to make a difference?
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: TAB on July 17, 2013, 01:04:39 PM
The neck of a 270 is .308"  and the oal length is 3.340"  for the 308 the oal is 2.800"   so I can easliy see a bullet fitting into a chamber.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 17, 2013, 02:39:02 PM
The neck of a 270 is .308"  and the oal length is 3.340"  for the 308 the oal is 2.800"   so I can easliy see a bullet fitting into a chamber.

Precisely.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Solus on July 17, 2013, 02:55:51 PM
The neck diameter of a .308 is .3433.

Just like the neck of a .270 is larger than the bullet diameter, so it is with a .308.

That is why I asked...we are not talking .308 going into .308, but a .3433 going into a .308

Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: TAB on July 18, 2013, 01:26:14 AM
But its also .540" shoter.  I don't have a reloading manuel infront of me, but I don't think the neck would even touch.  I will go dig it out, but i am pretty sure it wouldn't.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Solus on July 18, 2013, 11:38:21 AM
But its also .540" shoter.  I don't have a reloading manuel infront of me, but I don't think the neck would even touch.  I will go dig it out, but i am pretty sure it wouldn't.

Ahh..I see...so the bullet itself would "seat" in the neck area of the chamber.

Since it happened, that pretty much says the rest of the dimensions were close enough.


Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Timothy on July 18, 2013, 02:32:56 PM
The .270 case is 3.34" long.  Same as the .30-06 so the .308 has room...
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 18, 2013, 04:34:00 PM
The .270 case is 3.34" long.  Same as the .30-06 so the .308 has room...

IIRC the OAL is 3.34", its been a while since I trimmed the cases but think they were ~2.54"
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Timothy on July 18, 2013, 04:44:36 PM
IIRC the OAL is 3.34", its been a while since I trimmed the cases but think they were ~2.54"

Correct...my brain was thinking one thing and my fingers typed another...3.34 OAL...
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: billt on July 22, 2013, 06:03:09 PM
Buy one of these. They work, and you use your press to extract the case while the die is screwed in it. For what a gunsmith will charge you, you can purchase a new sizing die.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=stuck+case+remover
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Majer on July 22, 2013, 07:51:55 PM
Bill,the case is stuck in the rifle,Not a sizing die
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: billt on July 22, 2013, 09:42:11 PM
Bill,the case is stuck in the rifle,Not a sizing die

My bad. Next time I'll read more carefully.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 23, 2013, 03:47:01 PM
Search Brownell's  and Midway for "Broken case extractor".
I know you will find them for military calibers (.223, 308, .50) should be available for civilian calibers.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: billt on July 23, 2013, 04:48:48 PM
Search Brownell's  and Midway for "Broken case extractor".
I know you will find them for military calibers (.223, 308, .50) should be available for civilian calibers.

They work pretty well. I've never used them myself, but I've seen them used many times. Usually during matches with a lot of shooters on the line. Most of the time it seemed the more of the back of the shell that was ripped off, or separated, the easier they worked. If the entire back of the case separated, that was the best scenario because it released all of the tension. The broken shell extractor then had an easier job to do.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 23, 2013, 04:59:05 PM
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/stuck-case-removers/broken-shell-extractor-prod23311.aspx


http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/stuck-case-removers/broken-shell-extractors-prod24626.aspx

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=broken+case+extractor
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 24, 2013, 09:20:21 AM
I looked at those Tom but its my understanding it is for the appropriate case in the rifle (not for a 308 in a 270 for example).  I'll have the stuff on order later this week and I'll post some pics of my success (or failure).  8)
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 24, 2013, 11:36:16 AM
Too bad you don't live next door to Mericet.  ;)

I looked at those Tom but its my understanding it is for the appropriate case in the rifle (not for a 308 in a 270 for example).  I'll have the stuff on order later this week and I'll post some pics of my success (or failure).  8)

One thing to consider, if the case fire-formed to the chamber, maybe the extractors mentioned above would work.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Solus on July 24, 2013, 12:26:52 PM
Too bad you don't live next door to Mericet.  ;)

One thing to consider, if the case fire-formed to the chamber, maybe the extractors mentioned above would work.

I think Peg is correct.

Those extractors are built for a chamber with a brass case stuck in it...and what you have will be closer to a .270 than a .308 chamber with a brass case stuck in it I'd think.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on July 24, 2013, 05:05:57 PM
I think Peg is correct.

Those extractors are built for a chamber with a brass case stuck in it...and what you have will be closer to a .270 than a .308 chamber with a brass case stuck in it I'd think.


Except 270 brass is a bit longer than the 308 brass and I think those grab the neck, which I'm sure has been fireformed to it's fullest potential.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 25, 2013, 12:46:27 PM
Except 270 brass is a bit longer than the 308 brass and I think those grab the neck, which I'm sure has been fireformed to it's fullest potential.

The .270 is a necked-down '06 case, so you are right about that.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on August 02, 2013, 10:30:47 PM
VICTORY!
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y445/Magoo541/8980BDB6-01D5-49EE-A824-8163468047D4-1155-000001534D6712DC_zps2ffe6d31.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Magoo541/media/8980BDB6-01D5-49EE-A824-8163468047D4-1155-000001534D6712DC_zps2ffe6d31.jpg.html)
"Normal" 308 case for reference
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y445/Magoo541/CE402959-44CD-4D60-9DD9-E91C93DDF059-1155-0000015341616825_zps2d836245.jpg) (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Magoo541/media/CE402959-44CD-4D60-9DD9-E91C93DDF059-1155-0000015341616825_zps2d836245.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: PegLeg45 on August 03, 2013, 04:52:52 PM
Yay, glad to hear you got it out!!!!  :D




 ;D
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on August 03, 2013, 06:18:54 PM
That sucker was STUCK!  Took a brass hammer to a 1/4" rod, then an 12oz ballpein, finally a 16oz framing hammer with the action clamped in a vice before it even budged. No damage to the throat or chamber either. Loaded up some 140 grain Speer GK over some N160 .020" off the rifling and I hope to get it out to the range this evening.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 04, 2013, 11:38:16 AM
Did you pour some type of lead/ tin into the chamber and let it cool ?
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: TAB on August 04, 2013, 11:48:12 AM
From the pics it looks like the low temp casting alloy.  It melts at under 200. 
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 04, 2013, 12:19:47 PM
That's the stuff I was trying to think of.
I used it years ago to reduce tool chatter in some parts that we were machining large holes in, but I could not remember what it was called.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: GASPASSERDELUXE on August 04, 2013, 12:32:41 PM
CERROSAFE, used to make chamber castings.
Title: Re: Stuck case
Post by: Magoo541 on August 04, 2013, 04:23:00 PM
Did you pour some type of lead/ tin into the chamber and let it cool ?

Yes. I ordered some chamber casting alloy and heated it up on the gas grill then poured it in.