The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Ichiban on July 20, 2013, 02:35:06 PM
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Bill Whittle examines the death of Trayvon Martin and trial of George Zimmerman. Is the acquittal of Zimmerman one of the great civil rights injustices of our time?
As usual, Bill knocks it out of the park.
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56&load=8689 (http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56&load=8689)
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awesome,must see
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awesome,must see
Awesome, indeed.
Whittle comes through with simple facts, not speculation. It is a masterful presentation with a meaningful conclusion.
Crusader Rabbit
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Just let me zip up my flame suit... ::)
I don't know why this keeps playing itself out. Those who believe that Mr. Zimmerman started a conflict that ultimately ended Mr. Martin's life would love for us to believe that Mr. Martin was a sweet endearing boy with a bright future. Those on Mr. Zimmerman's side try to say that Mr. Martin was a thug punk looking for loot and blood.
At the end of the day all it does is rile people up and cause disharmony among a divided nation. If just once, just one time we put aside all of this stupid and senseless class divide/culture divide bull shit and pretended like we were real, intelligent human beings we could see that we all bleed red and that facts are all that matter in case that is only decided by law.
When you are put in the position of judging someone based on a set of guidelines, you follow those guidelines. In this case it was the actions of two people and the law that governs the legal aspects of taking a life. The courts tried to do a good job at allowing all of the factual evidence to come into play as they could but lets talk about what didn't matter for a second.
Skittles, Sprite, failed police exams, hoodies, baby pictures, race, weed, scholastic records and the stand your ground law.
What was important? Armed, unarmed, actions, consequences, disparity of force, and reaction.
If you can put aside all of the petty nonsense that made this the spectacle it became than you can come to the conclusion that Mr. Martin and Mr. Zimmerman were two people that had no prior knowledge of each other. That night they crossed paths and ultimately one of them did not survive the encounter. Mr. Zimmerman would not have had knowledge of the contents of Mr. Martin's pockets or his scholastic records or drug use and Mr. Martin would not have known about Mr. Zimmerman's status as a neighborhood watch volunteer or his inability to pursue a career in law enforcement.
Now here is where things actually get tricky, and bravo to the defense for having it shown as such.
You can see this as one whole incident or as two separate incidents. The moment Mr. Zimmerman saw Mr. Martin a timer started. This "shot clock" if you will, began ticking off the seconds of the encounter. When Mr. Zimmerman ceased his pursuit and proceeded back to his vehicle the clock stopped, the first incident was over. When Mr. Martin approached Mr. Zimmerman the clock started again. As the confrontation continued Mr. Martin achieved the upper hand in the scuffle and Mr. Zimmerman reacted to save his own life by using the one tool he was most afraid of loosing possession of.
Like it or not, if you choose to carry a firearm, there is always at least one firearm at your incident. You cannot allow it to be taken, and yes this does make things more dangerous for all involved. We could argue about Mr. Martin's intentions all we want but the fight ended before he was allowed the use of Mr. Zimmerman's firearm and that is the only fact we can allow in the court. If it had been argued that this was one congruent encounter and that the clock never stopped after Mr. Zimmerman ceased his pursuit, you could say that Mr. Zimmerman started the altercation that ended Mr. Martin's life. You still could not argue that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were not in direct result to Mr. Martin's escalation of the incident. If Mr. Martin had not decided to hit Mr. Zimmerman and then repeatedly bounce his head off the concrete there would have been no need for a deadly force reaction. There may be some arguing over how long the reaction took and if Mr. Martin was still on top of Mr. Zimmerman at the time of the shooting or not but at the end of the trial the jury believed that Mr. Zimmerman RE-acted. If the first action was to hurt or destroy the reaction has every right to bring the same amount of intensity. That is ultimately what won the case for Mr. Zimmerman.
The petty bickering over race, culture, upbringing, who wanted blood who was the good guy. None of that matters, it only serves to further destroy relations among people that without a constant news feed would probably be able to look at each other in public without feeling guilt, fear, or anger.
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Nice post. There are no heros or villians here. Just two guys who made bad choices and we should learn from them.
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Maybe Massad Ayoob sticks to the facts here...seems like he does...and these facts, the first time I have seem them presented, convinced me that Zimmerman was less part of the problem than I had thought he possibly could be before.
Note that Mass presents evidence that supports the theory Zimmerman didn't leave his truck until police asked him for current information
Mass also shows evidence that Zimmerman stopped following Martin when told by police it was not necessary.
Evidence is shown that Martin stopped heading for the house when Zimmerman stopped following him.
And finally, evidence is presented that indicates that Martin made the first verbal actions in the final confrontation.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2013/07/17/zimmerman-verdict-part-3-who-started-it/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MassadAyoob+%28Massad+Ayoob%29
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Before this devolves into all of the details of the encounter that have been hashed and rehashed so many times, the link is really about the LSM portrayal of the proponents. Not that they have an agenda or anything. ::)
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I hesitate to post a link to the website upon which I found this...but I'm sure you can find it if you think it important. Bic.
Default Made for TV movie about Trayvon Martin: Here's the script...
Travyon, played by Jaden Smith, is shown at school, raising his hand in literature class. The wise Hispanic teacher, played by Antonio Banderas, calls on him. Trayvon stands up and recites lines of Shakespeare in a hip, cool, but moving rap. As he sits down Banderas smiles and nods at him with a wise, knowing approval.
Trayvon is seen hanging out after school on the lush greens of the front school yard with his friends, featuring the girl who played Precious, plus a mix of races: a white blonde girl, a Hispanic kid, an Urkel-looking black nerd, a white kid with his hat on backwards. A veritable Burger King Kids Club.
Cut to a dark apartment, where Zimmerman, played by Luis Guzman, is doing pull-ups, with the words FEAR and HATE inked on his knuckles. He then practices shooting his empty gun at himself in a mirror. "You talking to me?" Guzman says. "You in MY neighborhood?" He then sits down to watch Birth of a Nation.
Cut to Trayvon at home, at the dinner table with his parents, played by Jamie Foxx and Maya Angelou. They discuss Tray's future plans of being an airline pilot. "It's a mighty big responsibility," Jamie Foxx says. "Having all those souls onboard." "I know," Jaden/Tray says. "I want to be like Sully some day though."
After dinner his little brother asks him if he can go get some candy and tea. Even though it's raining out, Tray agrees. In slow-mo he zips up his hoody, pulled from the dryer.
Cut to Zimmerman patrolling the streets as rain pours on his uncovered head. He does tuck-and-rolls across neighbors' lawns, pulling out his gun and pointing it at dark shadows. A cat crosses his path and he fires at it. He chuckles mercilessly.
"Keep the change," Tray says with a smile to the woman working at the convenience store. With the snacks for his brother he walks out of the store, not before passing by a magazine with Sully on the cover. Tray smiles.
Cut to Trayvon skipping down the sidewalk. A group of multicultural young males is there smoking pot. "You wanna get high?" one asks. "No," Trayvon answers, "then I'll never be able to be a pilot." He continues to skip down the path and eventually enters the condo complex.
As Trayvon turns a corner, a sweaty and enraged Zimmerman emerges from the shadows. "Where do you think you're going, NIGGER?"
Trayvon stumbles on his words and tries to answer but is silenced when Zim cold cocks himself with the gun and starts beating himself on the back of his own head. "Help! Help! Somebody help me!" Zimmerman screams.
"Please sir, I just want to return home to my brother and finish my homework," Trayvon pleads.
"That's too bad," Zimmerman says. He then empties his entire gun magazine into the baby-faced teen. "It looks like your dog ate it."
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Cut to Zimmerman patrolling the streets as rain pours on his uncovered head. He does tuck-and-rolls across neighbors' lawns, pulling out his gun and pointing it at dark shadows. A cat crosses his path and he fires at it. He chuckles mercilessly.
I had to laugh out loud at that one. ;D
One of the race baiters out there said he genuinely thought that if Martin had been white, the outcome would have been completely different. As if having your neighbor ripped off by a white guy is somehow better than getting burgled by some other color skin. What nonsense.
Here's a story from 2012: http://www.elpasotimes.com/tablehome/ci_21843760/teen-accused-el-paso-officers-fatal-beating-indicted
Four years as a cop, two tours in the sandboxes with the USMC and beat to death by a 17 yr old that punched him in the face then straddled him and continued beating.
h/t to Tam's blog
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You can see this as one whole incident or as two separate incidents. The moment Mr. Zimmerman saw Mr. Martin a timer started. This "shot clock" if you will, began ticking off the seconds of the encounter. When Mr. Zimmerman ceased his pursuit and proceeded back to his vehicle the clock stopped, the first incident was over. When Mr. Martin approached Mr. Zimmerman the clock started again. As the confrontation continued Mr. Martin achieved the upper hand in the scuffle and Mr. Zimmerman reacted to save his own life by using the one tool he was most afraid of loosing possession of.
Just as a side note, this was covered in the Neighborhood Watch episode of The Best Defense last season.
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Regardless of all other factors, Trayvon Martin was the first person to resort to violence.
The instant his fist impacted Zimmerman's face he deserved whatever came next.
It's called assault.