The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Bic on October 01, 2013, 07:55:26 PM
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Home defence w/subsonics and inside 100yd. whitetail shopping .......what would you use?
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i would say a red dot or a lower power acog( or simlar)
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VX/R HOG/PLEX by Leupold
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Good info guys, I like both those ideas - I actually have an early ACOG (3X?) which I put on my lightweight AR which made it....not so lightweight, maybe I'll change it to the upcoming 300. That HOG reticle is cool too!
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I've been accused of "over-scoping" but I go with a 3-9 (or above) for all my hunting. I don't care if it's 300 yards or 25, I want to see exactly where I want to hit.
With that said, there are a couple options that might be good for both purposes. The question is (as usual) what is your budget? If the sky was the limit, I would get a Leupold Mark 8. If your budget was just under "unlimited" I would go with VX-6 1-6 or 2-12. MB used the 2-12 in Africa, but his shots were significantly longer than your living room. If your budget was still high, I would go with a VX-3 in 1.5-5, the lower magnification being better for HD, or something with more magnification as a better deer scope. I use the VX-3 3.5-10 on my deer rifle. In case you can't tell, I'm a Leupold fan. But I've also killed 3 deer at ranges from 7 yards to ~150 with an EOTech and no magnifier.
There are a couple budget options I have been looking at lately. Primary Arms makes some really good optics, judging from what I have read and talking to guys that sell their products. Their Aimpoint-style red dots are really bright and clear even in daylight and the guys at Midwest Industries said they have sold hundreds of them and had only 1 come back because a guy couldn't get it to mount right on his AK. They also just released a 1-6 scope with what I would consider a "combat" reticle. If you know how to use it, it could make a great deer scope too. It has an 8 mph lead mark, which may work decently for a shot at a running whitetail. Also, it has some range and height estimation features that could also be useful for hunting. I've never used scopes like this, so ymmv, but I have always been intrigued by them. Lastly, they have a 1-4 illuminated reticle scope for $120 that looks like an excellent option. I'm seriously considering getting either the 1-6 or the 1-4 as a 3-gun scope.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-Rifle-Scopes-s/919.htm
In reality, your two uses (HD and hunting) can share a lot of good scope options, but personally, I would think about what I would use it for most (hunting,) and that's where I would spend my money. The HD part would only come into play in lowering the magnification I will use in order to make inside shots more do-able. As always, this is just MHO, so take it for what it's worth. Let me know what you decide.
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With your shooting application within 100 yards and if you don't want to spend a ton of money you might want to look at a Vortex StrikeFire red/green dot. 4 MOA dot. Bright Red and Red/Green color options. Includes optical 2x magnifier and mounting ring. Models with a 40mm ring provide lower 1/3 co-witness for rifles with a flat top rails.
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Again, great info marzie & Watchman and apologies for the tardy reply. I'll certainly look at all those suggestions if/when the guy finishes my upper!
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Burris MTAC with their PEPR rings. $360-$400 for the scope, shipped price.
I have one in 1.5x 6 power with 5.56 BDC in it. They are illuminated so they can serve as a dot up close or you can put a dot sight on top of that PEPR ring. I won't put a dot on top of my ring though. I got the ring because it's only 1 ounce heavier than rings costing $100 plus more than the Burris PEPR. The power range I have has a 40 MM objective which will bring in a heck of a lot more light than other "tactical" scopes that are 30MM or less in objective size (the "straight" tubes on the objective end).
You can get them with 7.62 BDC but I dunno how the BDC's will work with your ammo..... Maybe one or two of them will be near zero for useable ranges for that 300 AAC.
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Thanks Rastus....one of the TV gun shows was showing the Trijicon VCOG the other day and I was thinking that might be just the job....riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggghhhhht until I saw the price :o
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How much do you want to spend BIC? And are you looking at Bambi at 100 yards, or a BG across the back yard? Because those are two very different applications. On the cheap end I'd suggest two products I've used and found satisfactory. One is the plain Jane Eotech 512. It works great even in bright sunlight, uses AA batteries which I consider a plus as you can find them anywhere, and the only down side is that it uses up a fair bit of real estate on a rail. For glass? I bought a Bushnell Dawn to Dusk 3-9 40 mm and I like it. Its a Bambi (or squirrel in my case) killer. But not what I'd want for across the living room. The factory refurbed scope was about a hundred and the Eotech which rides on my AR was about $200 off ebay. If you're going high end ignore this post, but there are affordable options that work just fine. For a multi-tasker I'd buy the eotech and call it a day.
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If you want a scope, a Burris MTAC in 1-4 or 1.5-6 would be my suggestion as well. They are great. I have the 1.5-6 on my .450BM and I use the 1-4 on several other carbines. If you are really looking at SD and 100 yards and in, a true 1x on the bottom allows the true both eyes open sighting which is the fastest. Get the gun and sights on the target as fast as possible, then make sure you press the trigger correctly...I am sure you have heard that before, and it really is true!
My .300 BO for close in work has a Green Laser and BUIS. This one is pretty good: http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/type/green-lasers/01-3460
I shoot about 3MOA with this laser at 100 yards...but, inside of 50 yards, there is nothing faster and the FOV is "infinite!"
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Bic,
You might consider another option at around $150: the Redfield Counterstrike is a 1X red/green dot that has a separately adjustable red laser on it. Use the red/green dot for your 16 point buck at 100yds or less and the red laser for BG, most of whom like to work at night anyway. That system allows you to zero in the dots at 100yds and the laser at 25yds giving you a dual use optic that is readily available without swapping sights or changing settings. System weighs less than a pound. The one real issue is the laser is slung under the optic, so make sure you have no obstructions (like iron sights) in front of it. Just a thought. Perhaps some of the more experienced gunners can chime in?
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You might consider another option at around $150: the Redfield Counterstrike is a 1X red/green dot that has a separately adjustable red laser on it.
I have not used it, but it is a very good concept. I use the Burris version and I truly love it on my "Night" rifle. Just be aware that the red laser is not going to be very visible outside in the daylight. Definately worth the consideration.
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I just took delivery of my upper and checked it for function - works great. If it wasn't dark & raining (Hooray!!!) I'd make pics - maybe tomorrow.
I have green (Viridian) lasers on a couple of pistols and I'm really diggin' the idea of something like the MTAC plus a laser for close stuff. Thanks for all the inspiration - pics later
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One thing to keep in mind and double check. Some states don't allow lasers (or any light that projects forward) on firearms used for hunting. Be careful not to get in trouble with the gaffe warden.
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One thing to keep in mind and double check. Some states don't allow lasers (or any light that projects forward) on firearms used for hunting. Be careful not to get in trouble with the gaffe warden.
I think that is the case in Texas, I'll have to read the book to see if just taking the battery out would be OK - thanks for the reminder.
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Even if taking the battery is "ok" its not something you want to argue in the field. Never expect a leo( game wardens can be, not always) to know the law. Its just not worth it. ps, its really awesome when you make a leo read the cvc in court and they were 100% wrong. its also great when the judge rips them a new one for it. :)
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300aac update:
The story so far..
After too much time surfing the global interweb and soliciting advice I jumped in using the good sense from neither source.
I saw a Burris TAC30 at BassPro in San Antonio last time I went to the Big City at the same price that Midway has it, so I sprung for it that figuring I could work around it's incongruities and I actually really liked it ....except that the illuminated reticle constantly switched on and off every 4 seconds of it's own volition - eresearch suggests that this problem isn't unknown and is due to an overly tight battery compartment.
SO, back to Burris it has gone with a forecast of return or repair in 6-8 weeks.
There is about that long of whitetail season left and rather than stick some ugly sporting 'scope on it I returned to Midway's pages and came across this:
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff372/StuartCowley/P1010443_zps4e421c75.jpg) (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/StuartCowley/media/P1010443_zps4e421c75.jpg.html)
It's a Pride Fowler 30mm 1-4x with hash marks for 300 Blackout. I had a distant memory of MB talking about putting a PFI on some .22 or other during a podcast so I looked at their web site and read that they were imported from Japan.
Upon it's arrival, yesterday early evening, I discovered it is actually Chinese, but Hey-Ho, it might work !
Here it is on the rifle:
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff372/StuartCowley/P1010441_zps1b6435ef.jpg) (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/StuartCowley/media/P1010441_zps1b6435ef.jpg.html)
I should be able to get it sighted in today.
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Trijicon TA44 1.5x16 with amber triangle.... anything under 200m...
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/DSC00407_zps0b9e2574.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/DSC00407_zps0b9e2574.jpg.html)
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Hope that works out for you Bic. Just as an update, I ran mine through a two day carbine course with Larry Vickers and liked it a lot. After actually putting the MTAC through it's paces, this is what I think about my choice: 1) wish it went to 1x power which would make it more useful up close 2) BDC is quick and easy and very useful for up to the 300 yards max distance I used it for 3) glass is good enough to get the job done 4) eye relief is sufficient but could be improved 5) wish the "donut" circle and markings were "slimmer" or had less thickness.
I got this scope as a compromise for close shooting every now and then and distance primary (put it on a DMR build). Nowhere near as good up close as my EOTech, but then it worked OK would be better if 1x. Didn't try BDC past 300 yards but a 5.56 really isn't very effective beyond 200 yards anyway. For what I want it for, the BDC is more than precise enough. I could hit head sized targets quickly at 300 yards but for hitting eggs and such at that distance it is not adequate. I was surprised the glass was as clear as it was and I lived with the eye relief.
LAV suggested the Vortex HD (only HD) at around $1.5k or better yet a Schmidt Bender, of course. I'll have to live with the MTAC and I like it even if it is a bit heavier and not a premium piece of glass.