The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: oldkat69 on October 22, 2013, 12:44:21 PM
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>:( I am getting tired of my usual posts with some analysis of how many were killed while teachers and other sheep waited for the police following school shootings and other mass murders in "Gun Free Kill Zones" so instead I have put up this poll for thought provoking consideration.
Gun laws in Nevada are similar to my native Missouri. Teachers with CCW permits can carry at school with the principal or school boards's permission, which of course is never given.
In Utah certified teachers with CCW permits can carry at school since 1996. There have been no in school murders since 1995.
Some sates like Ohio, Texas and Arkansas are moving toward school concealed carry with special training.
What do you all think? ???
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" In Utah certified teachers with CCW permits can carry at school since 1996. There have been no in school murders since 1995."
Pretty much says it all right there.
Saw this on MB's Blog;
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/
Tuesday, October 22, 2013
What If It Turns Out we Were Right All Along?
From ABC News today:
Exclusive: After Westgate, Interpol Chief Ponders 'Armed Citizenry'
Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said today the U.S. and the rest of the democratic world is at a security crossroads in the wake of last month's deadly al-Shabab attack at a shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya – and suggested an answer could be in arming civilians.
In an exclusive interview with ABC News, Noble said there are really only two choices for protecting open societies from attacks like the one on Westgate mall where so-called "soft targets" are hit: either create secure perimeters around the locations or allow civilians to carry their own guns to protect themselves.
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"Ask yourself: If that was Denver, Col., if that was Texas, would those guys have been able to spend hours, days, shooting people randomly?" Noble said, referring to states with pro-gun traditions. "What I'm saying is it makes police around the world question their views on gun control. It makes citizens question their views on gun control. You have to ask yourself, 'Is an armed citizenry more necessary now than it was in the past with an evolving threat of terrorism?' This is something that has to be discussed."
Read the whole thing, and give it some thought.
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As I understand it, events moved pretty fast in this incident so there likely wasn't enough time for even an armed teacher to have been able to effect things unless that armed teacher had been on the scene and took action as soon as the gun appeared in the student's hand. The police said they arrived on scene within 3 minutes of receiving the 911 call. However, it is likely that the event was over before that 911 call was even completed.
Of course the media is trying to drum up anti-gun feelings by going out of there way to point out the student used--OMG, a scary "semi-automatic pistol". I haven't seen any reports yet, but this event could have been concluded with just 3-4 shots being fired. Thus the type of gun used, or its magazine capacity, would be irrelevant.
It does sound like the school implemented their response plan quickly by evacuating the other students and re-uniting them with their parents as soon as possible.
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As I understand it, events moved pretty fast in this incident so there likely wasn't enough time for even an armed teacher to have been able to effect things unless that armed teacher had been on the scene and took action as soon as the gun appeared in the student's hand. The police said they arrived on scene within 3 minutes of receiving the 911 call. However, it is likely that the event was over before that 911 call was even completed.
Does it take you more than 3 minutes to draw from deep cover? The math teacher was there. This is a dead serious question. No pun intended. Any response besides the first one in all likelihood would have ended the same way (math teacher dies). By the way , I voted for the second option. It would be a very difficult decision for me to fire on a student (I am studying to be a teacher as my second career and have taught part time for 2 1/2 years). He didn't have 3 minutes, he had 3 seconds.
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Bad guys with guns are only stopped by other people with guns. In CT the principal charged the coward unarmed and was cut down like so much cannon fodder in history. Even if she WANTED to have a gun there was NO WAY-no amount of training, no amount of money, no amount of begging- that she could have legally been armed at the school on that day.
We know what the solution is BUT for some reason those that sit in those postions of power REFUSE to allow the solution to be implemented.
The answer: VOTE THE BUMS OUT! This requires those that would rather be left alone to get involved and they won't until it becomes too painful-by which time it may be too late.
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3 seconds is long enough to move off the line of fire and draw.
Unless the kid has some good training or was an extremely lucky shot, I'd put my money on that math teacher had he been armed, aware and trained.
Story said he tried to talk the kid down...he would have had a much better chance of survival if he had done that with a gun in his hand while moving to cover. My guess is he stood flat footed and started talking.
Number two is the only option I could take...assuming I was on the spot.
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3 seconds sounds like a long time, but its very, very fast. It can take atleast 1 second just to realize whats going on, how fast can you draw when your not expect something to happen? also, you can't out draw a trigger finger.
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It didn't dawn on me until I saw video of the school. But I visited Sparks MS a few years back.
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oldkat... I have some suggestions on how to harden your classroom if interested..