The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on November 26, 2013, 04:06:39 PM
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From Allen West's site:
Retired generals critical of Obama say “peaceful civil uprising not out of the question”
We who have served in uniform took an oath, “to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.”
Those who truly believe in and live this oath realize there is no statute of limitations on this commitment to our beloved Republic. True military servants will stand guard for America as long as there is breath in their lungs. While in uniform we know we must follow the orders of our superiors, as long as they do not violate any moral standard.
However, once out of uniform, we have more freedom to express our thoughts, perspectives, and insights. Towards that end, two retired U.S. generals, Army General Paul E. Vallely and Air Force Brigadier General Charles Jones, have created a citizens’ commission called America’s Provisional Leadership Council to scrutinize Obama administration actions on national security and economic issues.
According to WND, General Vallely has already called for the resignations of President Obama, Vice President Biden, and senior Congressional leadership. In calling for the forced resignations of Obama and the leadership of Congress, Vallely outlined suggestions for nationwide rallies and said a peaceful “civil uprising is still not out of question.”
“Our federal government continues down the path of destroying America,” Vallely said. “Americans must now stand up and put America back on the right track.”
Along with several other prominent senior military officers and former CIA officers, I serve on a group called the Citizens Commission on Benghazi, sponsored by Accuracy in Media (AIM) founder Roger Aronoff. I believe we shall see more grassroots citizen activism to stand against the growing political elitism in America.
Generals Vallely and Jones are focused on raising up a new generation of honest, selfless leaders, which is the focus of the Allen West Guardian Fund as well, especially military conservatives. Vallely and Jones say they’ve developed workable solutions to “help solve and fix what has without question stunted our nation’s ability to clearly, legally and peacefully function as a constitutional republic.”
I am proud to know that we have former military leaders who still seek to honor their oath to our Republic and advocate ensuring the “new birth of freedom” is not lost for future generations. I know MG Vallely very well and he is an impeccable Army leader. I salute you Sir, and offer a hearty “Airborne.”
Do you think there’s a groundswell building in America? I certainly hope so.
http://allenbwest.com/2013/11/retired-generals-critical-obama-say-peaceful-civil-uprising-question/
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Do you think there’s a groundswell building in America? I certainly hope so.
I hope so to. I have no faith in the opposition party (i.e. republicans) to actually fix anything. The only hope is the American people.
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After 80+ years of communist indoctrination in education, and bribing minorities on the tax payers $ I don't have any faith in "the people" either .
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Never forget that 50% of all people are below average intelligence. And they vote.
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After 80+ years of communist indoctrination in education, and bribing minorities on the tax payers $ I don't have any faith in "the people" either .
It's logical.
Whichever one begets the other, it's sickeningly obvious that if we were to somehow drive the rats out of Washington, there would be no "Saint Gun0Guys Day" to commemorate the occasion. That's the part that breaks my heart so badly..
National Revival must be, before "life" can return to the nation..
I'm still not adverse to the idea of starting over, be it CONUS or somewhere else.. We're already "Balkanized" though. We couldn't do it together.. We've already demonstrated that the atheists won't countenance a Christians voice, if Christian it be.
Divided, we fall..
"What a long, strange trip it's been."
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"Never forget that 50% of all people are below average intelligence. And they vote."
They may vote, but they can't seem to feed, clothe or house themselves without Government help. While I don't look forward to it, if it comes to a fight for the survival of the country, I will gladly take the odds of the strong, intelligent, warrior class against the dependent, addicted, and ignorant. I am afraid that the days of the "ballot box" as a way out of this mess may be nearing an end, and there are many who will not sit by and let them vote us all into oblivion.
Good on these men for giving a credible voice to the realities that we face. While Piers Morgan and Martin Bashir may have cart blanch from their treasonous employers to discredit productive Americans, they don't have the stones or the brains to take on career warriors. >:(
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Uprisings always seem to turn ugly in third world nations and we're beginning to look like a third world nation. I'd hate to see an uprising because of the potential for a peaceful uprising to become ugly. More reason for me to live in the country away from problems and to stay that way.
The cities, where for all intents and purposes the progressive/totalitarian/communist live, would be a horrible place to live with a family. That 1/2 or so below average who probably don't have two cents to rub together because they pissed it away for cigarettes or beer instead of food, etc., may very well join up and strike out along with the militant progressive/totalitarian/communist at the others with horrible results. Look at what militants like Bill Ayers did and what they are on record as having said. To see that kind of horror and suffering where one clear group of people is at odds with another group with violence on their mind should be unthinkable.
Cities are uber vulnerable and with a widespread uprising, which I would bet would turn ugly in a hot summer, the suffering and loss of life within them could be immense for the people who live there. In a peaceful uprising gone bad, I think that basic services will suspended by local authorities to calm people down by giving them something else to think about...like where do I get the next drink of water. Look at Katrina....even the city's LEO's turned for themselves and their own families and to heck with the people. Not to mention all of the stories of law enforcement brought in zeroing out people at the end of scoped rifle barrel and the vigilante justice in the Superdome...none of which was ever prosecuted.
A few days without electricity and water and there would be horrible casualties of innocent people. So much for the information highway and security when the batteries run down after 3 or 4 days. If local authorities were to take away electricity and water for a few days to get things under control, when they turned it back on the citizens would become quite pacified I think....but the cost to get to that point would be horrible. It is generally published that people only have a few days food at home and without running water pretty much everyone would get thirsty in a few hours...not to mention the hygiene issue after 2 or 3 days. I bet most city dwellers don't have the knowledge or the tools to bury their own stools bringing into the picture a specter of disease on an unknown scale. End of uprising.
Worse than that, if militants destroyed a couple of transformers and water lines it would be weeks or months before services may be restored if it were happening across the country. The cities would become literal cesspools of hell...not somewhere I'd want to be. We are blessed as a nation that muslim or militant progressive terrorists have not hit our major cities like NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, etc., like this. You'll never see me anywhere near a city if "peaceful" uprisings begin in earnest across this nation, my behind will be close to home where I'm safe in comparison.
I think even a peaceful uprising would be a bad thing because of the potential for horror on a terrible scale if it escalated into something bad. We all have family and friends in the cities. The innocent could suffer horribly against angry mobs and very few would ever be held accountable for crimes committed....which should be unthinkable in a nation where the rule of law exists....but then we have that Katrina example where we see how thin the veneer of civilization really is.
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Rastus, the stuff you mention will be done by both sides.
Various "supplies, food, water, electricity, etc, are considered legitimate targets.
What will be nasty are the massacres that will be carried out by both sides.
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After 80+ years of communist indoctrination in education, and bribing minorities on the tax payers $ I don't have any faith in "the people" either .
I'm with ya on this one. What with the Millenniums, the 20+/- generation that's out there, they believe they should be entitled to all kinds of benefits for FREE ie: the Gubment will take care of them. The milenniums feel they are entitled to a CEO pay wage when they graduate college/when they enter the work force, they believe that they don't have to "earn" their living. The Gov. will take care of me.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford.
I weep for my country :'(
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The masses out there are becoming so dumb, and feel so entitled, I doubt that any "uprising" would be "peaceful". Look at society in general. Friday we had store employees trampled to death. Women punching, pulling hair and kicking each other right in the isles of stores. Over what? $3.00 off a waffle iron?
There is no way these idiots could do anything "peacefully". About the best you could hope for would be a military overthrow, with the leaders governing from a strict Constitutional platform. Things will have to get far worse than they are now for that to happen. Christ, now we've got city police arming themselves with MRAP vehicles. There will be nothing "peaceful" about any of what's ahead. The best you could hope for is to live as far away from minorities when it does happen. Look at what they turned the Superdome into in just 48 hours. The minorities damaged it far worse than Katrina ever could have.
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Having lived in Ecuador during a time when rule of law was effectively suspended, I get real nervous about this kind of talk. I've seen what it's like, and it is NOT, as the bard says, a a consummation devoutly to be wished.
I understand the sentiment, but the reality is very harsh indeed.
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I fully agree that violence is not the way. However, does anyone know what the alternative is? A state convention? Secession? The last election proved to me that the populace is lost and dependent, many of them permanently. I think I can speak for most of us here when I say that these leeches HAVE to be made to fend for themselves. Next, the fed has to be drastically slashed. The soap box gets you labeled as a domestic terrorist, the ballot box is stuffed, and the regime is pushing hard to disarm us. Where does that leave us?
BTW I finally found the case where the GOP gave up all rights to a clean election. I had heard of it, but never saw the evidence before this.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/gop-legally-barred-from-fighting-vote-fraud/
http://judicialview.com/Court-Cases/Civil-Procedure/Democratic-National-Committee-v-Republican-National-Committee/10/201975
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I fully agree that violence is not the way. However, does anyone know what the alternative is? A state convention? Secession? The last election proved to me that the populace is lost and dependent, many of them permanently. I think I can speak for most of us here when I say that these leeches HAVE to be made to fend for themselves. Next, the fed has to be drastically slashed. The soap box gets you labeled as a domestic terrorist, the ballot box is stuffed, and the regime is pushing hard to disarm us. Where does that leave us?
BTW I finally found the case where the GOP gave up all rights to a clean election. I had heard of it, but never saw the evidence before this.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/gop-legally-barred-from-fighting-vote-fraud/
http://judicialview.com/Court-Cases/Civil-Procedure/Democratic-National-Committee-v-Republican-National-Committee/10/201975
Secession was tried in the 1800's. Didn't work.
Maybe the GOP debacle (and I remember thinking what unmitigated stupidity it was) to stay away from voter fraud is the driving factor for the Dems to hit the Tea Party using the IRS, etc. The Tea Party is not restrained like the party which smells of the stench of foolishness and elderly finality...i.e. the GOP.
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I fully agree that violence is not the way. However, does anyone know what the alternative is? A state convention? Secession? The last election proved to me that the populace is lost and dependent, many of them permanently. I think I can speak for most of us here when I say that these leeches HAVE to be made to fend for themselves. Next, the fed has to be drastically slashed. The soap box gets you labeled as a domestic terrorist, the ballot box is stuffed, and the regime is pushing hard to disarm us. Where does that leave us?
BTW I finally found the case where the GOP gave up all rights to a clean election. I had heard of it, but never saw the evidence before this.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/gop-legally-barred-from-fighting-vote-fraud/
http://judicialview.com/Court-Cases/Civil-Procedure/Democratic-National-Committee-v-Republican-National-Committee/10/201975
I had seen these previously, just more pieces in the puzzle that will end - is designed to end - with the failure of this country on any number of levels - economic, military, perhaps even independence.
With the dems controlling the DOJ - in fact, the entire .gov bureaucracy - the GOP can do nothing at this point other than go along. Any attempt to disrupt the status quo will fail miserably due to the .gov filing all sorts of lawsuits, people going to prison or just flat out disappearing, or perhaps like Vince Foster "committing suicide. Or like the Generals and Admirals of late being outed for their "indiscretions". Why do you think so many "senior GOP officials" are so lukewarm (at best) or even anti any Constitutional controls?
Sadly, I have reached the conclusion that until our blood enemies - as Michael Bane (correctly, IMHO) labeled them - start dying off, there will be no change in the move toward the abyss. Trouble is, they have bred and indoctrinated millions of our younger "fellow" countrymen and women (I use the word "fellow" in the sense they inhabit the same geopolitical spaces) who will continue their destructive tendencies without regard to their own plight. Lenin's useful idiots.
So until the status quo changes, there will be no change from where we are going nor the rapidity of the movement - except perhaps an acceleration of the end. And this once-great country will disappear into broken up bits and pieces. IMHO.
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I had seen these previously, just more pieces in the puzzle that will end - is designed to end - with the failure of this country on any number of levels - economic, military, perhaps even independence.
With the dems controlling the DOJ - in fact, the entire .gov bureaucracy - the GOP can do nothing at this point other than go along. Any attempt to disrupt the status quo will fail miserably due to the .gov filing all sorts of lawsuits, people going to prison or just flat out disappearing, or perhaps like Vince Foster "committing suicide. Or like the Generals and Admirals of late being outed for their "indiscretions". Why do you think so many "senior GOP officials" are so lukewarm (at best) or even anti any Constitutional controls?
Sadly, I have reached the conclusion that until our blood enemies - as Michael Bane (correctly, IMHO) labeled them - start dying off, there will be no change in the move toward the abyss. Trouble is, they have bred and indoctrinated millions of our younger "fellow" countrymen and women (I use the word "fellow" in the sense they inhabit the same geopolitical spaces) who will continue their destructive tendencies without regard to their own plight. Lenin's useful idiots.
So until the status quo changes, there will be no change from where we are going nor the rapidity of the movement - except perhaps an acceleration of the end. And this once-great country will disappear into broken up bits and pieces. IMHO.
While I agree with your sentiments. I cannot agree with your conclusion. It makes it sound as if you have given up. I cannot believe that of you. I keep coming back to the quote (which I will now misquote) "Evil can only exist as long as good men do nothing." The same applies to tyranny. If tyranny, however soft, is not what we are living under right now, then what is this? I'm fed up with hearing that all of this is the "new normal". Dammit we are AMERICANS! We are better than this! When did half of this country decide that it was ok to be a guinea pig is the progressives social experiment? And when did the rest of us decide that it was ok to stand by and be extorted?
I have been blessed in this life, but I also have a rare trait called a strong work ethic. I have used the opportunities that I have been given to make a good life for myself. One that I am not willing to give away to someone who the .gov thinks is more deserving that me, simply because they vote the right way. I saw the call of duty commercial the other night, "there's a soldier in all of us"? Well I believe there is a founder in all of us. Jefferson, Washington, Adams. They are alive today. They are in each of us that still holds dear the founding of nation, and the meaning of our Constitution.
If we stand aside, if we let that go, then our nation does die. Our true history, and our exceptionalism will die with it. No one will ever know what our soldiers fought, and died for. They will be bastardized by revisionist historians, as murderers, and thugs. Our children and grandchildren will never know that our nation was once a beacon of light, that put forth it's best, brightest, and bravest to help bring hope and liberty to every corner of the world.
I can't let that scenario play out. I won't. As Reagan said "We are the last best hope for man on earth." If real men, true patriots, don't stand up now, in the time our nation needs them most, then we are all branded cowards, and we have already lost.
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"While I agree with your sentiments. I cannot agree with your conclusion. It makes it sound as if you have given up. I cannot believe that of you."
Agree comletely !!! A friend and I attended the big Tea Party in DC. We were totally blown away by the energy and power of such a large diverse group of Americans comming together to say no to big brother. Yea they pushed through B'HOs bill and we were demonized and lied about by the media dinosaurs, so the talking point was that we left our sheets and nooses at home to be brought out later.
WELL, I'm here to say that you haven't seen nothin yet! When all these folks who thought the new messiah had come down to stop the oceans rise and bring social justice to America see the collapse of the finest health care the world has ever known and their dollars are worth about what Charmin is it will hit the fan.
The political class has had it's day. Now is the time for our people to relearn the Constitution, to teach their children well.
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A peaceful uprising seldom, if ever, has influenced a totalitarian regime...and that is what we have this one working to become.
The chances of another type of uprising being successful will depend on a lot of factors, not the least of which is which way the Armed Forces go. I want to believe they will refuse to fire on armed citizens in rebellion against a tyrannical government, but I don't think it is a sure thing, especially if it is unorganized small local pockets of rebels.
To get organized, local leadership is needed...and it might be found at the local gun club or range, but that is iffy at best. I'd say the best chance of strong local leadership would come from a Sheriff and their department who will stand firm in defense of the Constitution. Citizens can be deputized, BYOWeapons and ammo.
This will offer leadership and a measure of legality to the "rebels" along with a communications network for as long as that might last.
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The problem with liberalism is that when it's applied, it changes peoples minds automatically because it sucks in practice. We're seeing it now with Obama Care. There will be more grand failures of it, and other entitlements in the future. You can "indoctrinate" all you want, but if it sucks in actual application people will reject it. As bad as Russia is today, they continually reject any talk of going back to communism. Except for the younger ones who never experienced it, and base their "knowledge" on bull$h!t. You can tell people $h!t tastes good for only so long, but the reality will sink in after the first bite.
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The problem with liberalism is that when it's applied, it changes peoples minds automatically because it sucks in practice. We're seeing it now with Obama Care. There will be more grand failures of it, and other entitlements in the future. You can "indoctrinate" all you want, but if it sucks in actual application people will reject it. As bad as Russia is today, they continually reject any talk of going back to communism. Except for the younger ones who never experienced it, and base their "knowledge" on bull$h!t. You can tell people $h!t tastes good for only so long, but the reality will sink in after the first bite.
I have my doubts that will make much difference.
The mindset still isn't going to turn away from their utopia, they will just believe that we didn't put enough into it and if we just spend what we should have in the first place and Rich Folks be Damned, we could produces some fine tasting $hit.
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" Peaceful Civil Uprising" ?
What an idiotic concept .
The difference between a "peaceful uprising" and a civil war is which way the Army faces when they get their orders to open fire, just like in Moscow 1991.
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I have my doubts that will make much difference.
Sure it will. Liberalism is a bill of goods that doesn't work, and we have no money to pay for. If it had any chance of succeeding you would have an example of it by now. There isn't one anywhere. Look all over Continental Europe. One country after another is failing financially, just as the Soviet Union and East Germany did. All as a direct result of liberal / communist policies. The Euro is in far more danger of collapse than the American Dollar. Remember, the Euro was brought out to stabilize Europe economically. It's been so abused for so long, it is now in worse shape than the currency it replaced. Again, all because of liberalism.
In this country you have city after city, in state after state, ready to financially collapse much like Detroit has for the same reason. Big unions, over paid city workers, unsustainable pensions, diminishing tax base due to disappearing jobs. All because of liberal policies, taxes, and leaders. Illinois and California will be the next to fall. They can't bail out everyone. Make some popcorn, sit back and watch. It's going to get good. And it's not going to take long.
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Sure it will. Liberalism is a bill of goods that doesn't work, and we have no money to pay for. If it had any chance of succeeding you would have an example of it by now. There isn't one anywhere. Look all over Continental Europe. One country after another is failing financially, just as the Soviet Union and East Germany did. All as a direct result of liberal / communist policies. The Euro is in far more danger of collapse than the American Dollar. Remember, the Euro was brought out to stabilize Europe economically. It's been so abused for so long, it is now in worse shape than the currency it replaced. Again, all because of liberalism.
In this country you have city after city, in state after state, ready to financially collapse much like Detroit has for the same reason. Big unions, over paid city workers, unsustainable pensions, diminishing tax base due to disappearing jobs. All because of liberal policies, taxes, and leaders. Illinois and California will be the next to fall. They can't bail out everyone. Make some popcorn, sit back and watch. It's going to get good. And it's not going to take long.
I think you are failing to take into account the education indoctrination system in this country.
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I think you are failing to take into account the education indoctrination system in this country.
They can "indoctrinate" all they want. As I said, when these people find out in reality, that everything they've been taught flat out doesn't work, it isn't going to matter. It's a bit like when I was growing up in the 60's. Everyone then thought commune living was so great. "Tune out, turn on, drop out", or some such was the way to supposedly live. The problem was it got old. Especially after a few weeks of working while your buddy was drinking your beer, smoking your dope, and banging your girlfriend, while you paid for his food.
It's no different here. They can preach to these kids all they want, it isn't going to matter. It's already happening. Polls everywhere are showing Obama tanking with the younger crowd in universities everywhere. These kids owe a fortune in student loans. They can't find jobs they're qualified for. They have to live with their parents until God knows when. They have no money for themselves, let alone to buy his overpriced, overrated health care. They are getting more disgusted than anyone with the never ending lies of the liberal left they were "indoctrinated" to believe in. All the while sitting in a nice air conditioned classroom listening to some far left, over paid, liberal loon professor, while reality is buzz sawing their lives away. The end of the line is coming for these people. You can't run on bull$h!t forever without any results. The former Soviet Union is the best proof of that.
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Have I given up? Not by a damn sight! I grew up in what was the great time of this country, and I want to send it back to those times.
But, I am too much of a realist to think that all of us scattered here and there across the country can make any substantive changes, especially through the ballot box.
- The courts have been gamed.
- the people have been brainwashed. Remember, Lenin said give me your kids for 4 years, and I will make communists of all of them. Give them to me for 8 years, and I will give you a revolution. The Limas have had our kids for decades as of now, and there is no change in the schools, so it will be more years they will have control. And we are seeing the soft revolution - on our watch! >:( There is a reason tyranny always follows the fall of a democracy - which our country is now effectively. When people have been led to believe the .gov will support them, and it fails to do that, they will listen to the strongest voice telling them they can fix our problems.
- The media is mostly in the Lima's pockets, and vice versa.
- The legislative branch has shown an appalling disregard for the people's will. Which is to be expected, since most of them have been bought off.
- The executive branch has been tyrannical and dictatorial, with people now calling for bho to serve a 3rd term, a constant river of EO's, czars, regulatory hell, etc.
- The Limas love vote fraud, since it always goes their way and they win.
So I see only some measure of violence as a means to correct the course of this nation away from the abyss. I do not want that violence, I have seen first hand mob action and po-po reaction - and over-reaction. I do not want to see it again, but as Jefferson noted, it may be necessary.
And lastly, as a realist, I recognize that I am nearing retirement, have medical issues and am newly married. Can I be a door kicker? Nope, not a chance. Hump for an 8-hour overnight shift in patrolling the perimeter? Again, nope. Can I even protect my own home if and when the po-po kick in my door at 4 in the morning? Nope. My dog will bark at the intruders and then will die at their hands; hopefully my wife and I will not.
I now live in a Lima town (sadly) with some oath-keepers and good guys around. Being new here, I am working hard to find them now before the hard times kick in.
Will I stand with my good guy neighbors against the tyrannical forces if it comes to that. Yes, absolutely. Although I have never served in the US military, my father and brother did, and a son who is in the Marines.
I have personally taken the oath they swore, but alas, I think my role will be supportive rather than any front line action.
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Here's your door kickers. ::)
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Here's your door kickers. ::)
Good on the trainers in Kalifornia... Anyone see problems using concealment/cover other than me?
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Good on the trainers in Kalifornia... Anyone see problems using concealment/cover other than me?
Yeah. They're using plastic bags as cover. That's not going to stop much.
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Crowding their cover/concealment. Sticking their barrels past cover/concealment. Improperly shooting around their cover and concealment leaving themselves exposed....
That sliding on your back shooting stuff....dang impressive....you can see from the weapon moving no way they are getting good hits.....when their target moves left or moves right....that's a bad position to be in to respond to movement from the guy downrange not to mention when that 2nd or 3rd guy pops up how are you going to get out of the way before they zero in on you.
Stuff like that....
If you are gonna have a home invasion that's the kind of training you'd like to see in bad guys.....
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Crowding their cover/concealment. Sticking their barrels past cover/concealment. Improperly shooting around their cover and concealment leaving themselves exposed....
That sliding on your back shooting stuff....dang impressive....you can see from the weapon moving no way they are getting good hits.....when their target moves left or moves right....that's a bad position to be in to respond to movement from the guy downrange not to mention when that 2nd or 3rd guy pops up how are you going to get out of the way before they zero in on you.
Stuff like that....
If you are gonna have a home invasion that's the kind of training you'd like to see in bad guys.....
Look at the bright side.
The thread is about non-violent civil disorder which could percolate to more serious acts and the guys being trained here might well be on the other side.