The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: ellis4538 on December 21, 2013, 07:52:40 AM
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Another Shot Show another chance for us to make requests to have Michael, Marshal or M'ette check out and report back to us on. Something that you have heard rumors about and etc....
I'll start it out. I'll skip Glock because I know they will be checking that out (along with everyone else!!!) LOL! I saw an ad by Rock River Arms showing their new modular single stack pistol with grip configured similar to STI pistols. They don't even show pistols on their web site and haven't for some time so no help there.
Richard
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Is VLTOR ever going to release the a new Bren Ten?
:'(
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ATI MP40 in. 22LR and Citadel 9mm M1 Carbine-Will there be models that accept different pistol magazines?
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Well if it were up to ME, it's be all CZ's, all the time.
But that's me. ;D
The Legacy 9mm M1 intrigues the crap out of me because it's such an obvious solution to the lack of good, inexpensive pistol caliber carbines, plus being based on the M1 means there's an excellent chance the the plethora (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBUMntP6DI) of M1 carbine accessories out there will work with it.
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me there! i will pay my own way and even carry a camera and put my ugly mug out there( ok maybe not that, but carry the camera is a yes)
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Tab, great idea! Maybe we could talk someone into sponsoring a couple worthy individuals into the SS with the idea of having us/them report on KOOL stuff for DRTV from a "Regular Joe" perspective. Probably not this year but maybe in the future. Glad you thought of it!
Richard
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EXactly, i think i would be perfect for the job. I also know my local gun shop would be really happy about me going too. :) hell i would bet they would pay my way, i know they would earn it back with intrest. haha
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Really hope S&W introduce a K/L frame in 9mm in addition to the N frame 9mm competition model they have coming out.
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I'd like for S&W to bring back the Model 19, Blued with 3 inch barrel and round butt WITHOUT the stupid lock
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9 mm is a tapered case, it does not do well in a 6 gunn
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9 mm is a tapered case, it does not do well in a 6 gunn
It does fair if you specifically make the cylinder for it.
A friend on mine's dad had an old Ruger Blackhawk convertible with two cylinders. The standard cylinder was .357/.38spl.....the spare cylinder was drilled for 9mm.
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FOr mild loads its no big deal, what happens is it gets pushed back and can lock up the cylinder. I bet accuracy was not that great since 9mm is .355" does not sound like much but .002" is huge when it comes to guns.
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FOr mild loads its no big deal, what happens is it gets pushed back and can lock up the cylinder. I bet accuracy was not that great since 9mm is .355" does not sound like much but .002" is huge when it comes to guns.
As I recall, he did not shoot the 9mm in it very much because it was not as accurate.
If the bore was bored specifically for the 9mm, then moon clips in a DA might help with the potential lock-up you mention.
The big thing for a company to factor in is overall demand and whether it would sell enough units to be profitable with mass production over limited editions or customs.
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FOr mild loads its no big deal, what happens is it gets pushed back and can lock up the cylinder.
Actually it is desirable for a revolver round to be pushed back against the breech face during the firing sequence. If it doesn't then the primer will be pushed back and that will jam up the cylinder. You can test this by firing cases with just primers: No bullets, no wads. The primer will back out and drag on the breech face, making it difficult to turn the cylinder. Two or more of these will lock up a gun.
The whole firing sequence is a delicate ballet with the firing pin driving the round flush with the cylinder then as the case expands the round is driven back into the breech face, keeping the primer in the pocket and providing support for the whole case. Hopefully the case expansion doesn't have too tight a grip on the chamber walls until the case head is fully supported by the breech, else the case head will rip off. Then as the pressure subsides, the case contracts some and the case is free to move back towards the cylinder thus freeing the cylinder to turn again.
The negative with a tapered case is that as the case goes backwards (desirable), the case expands into the larger diameter area and isn't able to contract back enough to move back into the cylinder (undesirable). This can be alleviated in a revolver by have a slightly over sized forward half of the chamber -- ever so slightly over size. But of course, the chamber must still engage the case mouth since on a rimless round (9mm) the headspace is the distance from the breech to the case mouth.
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What Kevin and I want for shot 2014 is to go as a guest of SG to give a zero-to-hero view point of the new offerings.
Hint
Hint
Hint
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I want a pony!
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I want a pony!
Here you go...(http://home.comcast.net/~shooter2_indy/graphics/pony_left.jpg)
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I'll be going to the Monday Afternoon Range Day scrum, and Remington was just added to the list of exhibitors I want, nay, NEED to visit (http://www.exurbanleague.com/misfires/2014/01/02/seen-future-concealed-carry-pistols-1918/).
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I wonder who makes it?
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The R51? I'm guessing Para-USA makes it, they're the pistol part of Freedom Group these days.
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So Kevin, Re: R51
Remember when you were lamenting about how there had been no "new" innovations in semi-autos for many years?
Even if this is an "old" design, do you consider it be an innovation in semi-autos worthy of marking on the gun evolution chart?
What do you consider was the last real innovation? The Sig P250?
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Yep. It's the most innovative gun (IMO) since the M+P introducing interchangeable backstraps, maybe since the Glock came out.
- There hasn't been a gun with this kind of action since the 20's. Just like Glock reached back into the past for the striker-fired action, Remington did the same with the R51.
- The way it looks. The 1911 has defined the look of the semi-auto, and even though people trash the looks of Glocks, the fact is BOTH guns were designed around right angles and straight lines. The R51 is first gun in a long time to be designed with curves and swoops, and I love it.
- It's no one-trick pony. The original 51 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_51) was built in everything from .32 to .45, so Remington has a lot of room to grow with this one.
But then again, I think they original Whitney Wolverine is one of the best-looking guns of all time. :D
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Not knowing a lot about the original, But my impression is that this rates a marker on the semi-auto timeline.
I do think though the previous marker would be the p250 with its unique metal frame.
Wasn't the p99 the first modern interchangeable backstrap?
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Wasn't the p99 the first modern interchangeable backstrap?
Could be. There was a few years there I wasn't paying attention. I was more concerned with shooting (clickclick) than I was shooting (bangbang). :D
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Re: Remington 51 - - looks like an ugly version of the 1908 Colt Pocket pistol.
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But then again, I think they original Whitney Wolverine is one of the best-looking guns of all time. :D
I too like the Wolverine and along the same sleek look the Beretta Neos. Would have bought the Neos but like the feel and functionality of the Buckmark better.
The R51 also has the sleet, jet-set look.
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What's fascinating to me (as a weasel-y marketing type) is the reaction in the gunblog world to the R51 and the G42. The R51 is pretty much "oooh, shiny!", and the G42 has been "Yeah, but why not make it 9mm?"
The fact is, the target market for the G42 isn't gun bloggers or gun forums or 99% of firearms media. We know how to shoot, and the G42 is a great defensive firearm for people who don't like guns. It's going to sell, and sell quite a lot, it's just not going to sell to people who read or write gun blogs.
With the R51, we're seeing an entry into a market that we thought was saturated totally re-invigorate that market. Everyone and their dog has made a mini 9mm over the past few years, but despite that, the R51 is making an impact on people because of price point and design. I'm really curious to see if/how it's new/old design improves muzzle flip and felt recoil, and it has a design that appeals to the style-conscious.
Glock followed the conventional wisdom with the G42. Remington did not, and they just may have a something that will change the game like the LCP did for Ruger.
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I would like to hear a company state that rather than rolling out a whole new line with all the bells, whistles, and neon flashing lights that they will be coming out with one well thought out and proven firearm for the year.
The MBA's have taken over the firearm business. Remember when William Ruger said, and I paraphrase, we don't need focus groups. We are gun people and if we don't know what gun people want we shouldn't be here.
The fast paced marketing to the ever expanding firearms market has turned us into just another commodity. Not bad on one hand, but it also carries some negatives.
The automotive industry knows that their sales are tied to model design. Rolling out a new model triggers sales, and new sales triggers used sales, and the service departments remain busy. The electronics industry knows that new and improved sells, and they do not roll out something new until the next new item is already ready to product - Planned obsolesence! I see the firearms industry moving this direction to maximize interest and sales, and sometimes this is done at the cost of quality - XDM anybody (Ruger, S&W, and others have suffered as well, but I chose to pick on Springfield because that overgrown Kindergartner Robbie can take it).