The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on December 24, 2013, 10:35:36 AM
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I have been following several stories on Edward Snowden over the last couple weeks. An AP story today carries a couple headlines, but the one that caught my eye was that "... his mission is already accomplished."
Sitting in an easy chair with a laptop on his lap is quite the photo op. I wonder what it is like for a former United States contractor to live as an exile with the constant question bounding around in his mind "can a sniper see me here?"
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I'm personally torn about Snowden. On the one hand, like Assange, he stole US secrets and made them public. Not generally a good thing.
OTOH, he has brought light into the darkest recesses of the obamanation, let them dash out and lie some more to try to spin the information, and then release additional information to highlight those lies. And with the current crop of pols in Dc, that's actually a good thing, we are (hopefully) seeing some awakening in this country.
But, yeah, sniper.
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I'm personally torn about Snowden.
You're not the only one...
Some talking heads were on tv saying that Snowden should come back to the US and face a trial.
They said there was "no record" of him bringing his concerns to the NSA or the Senate Intel. Committee.
Like anyone in either of those freaking camps would have done anything but maybe disappear his azz.
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I think Snowden is a Patriot who gave up his future to expose the corruption of this intrusive administration. Rather then have him charged with a crime I would like to see some elected officials and their underlings in Leavenworth. Their crimes against the American people are many.
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I agree to a point mort. However, Snowden went too far with the level of disclosure and who he gave it to.
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Snowden is a f*cking idiot who lost his citizenship over something that has been common knowledge since at least the 1980's.
What do these ignorant brain dead azzholes think we've been paying billions of $ for since 1947 ?
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I really wish Tom would find a way to let us know how he really feels ;)
My question continues to be whether we will hear of a murder, a terminal illness, or if he will just disappear.
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i think the media will just stop talking about him and he will die pennyless of old age some where
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What are we paying billions of dollars for since 1947, to cover up Roswell????
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Spying on our own citizens, Mort!
We can't trust the .gov and haven't been able to for my lifetime and then some!
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Government has always needed to be kept on a short leash, but people want to live their lives and be left alone. The problem is that government wants to grow and control us while we are not paying attention. Snowden is right that we will see a generation that has never known privacy because we accept so many intrusions. When the TSA molested us before we could fly more people complained for a while and then accepted it as if the only safe way to fly was to just go along. Profiling will make us safer then any politically correct monkey motion. Just like when we were kids, one person can screw it up for the rest of us.
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http://www.amazon.com/Puzzle-Palace-National-Intelligence-Organization/dp/0140067485/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388181593&sr=1-1&keywords=puzzle+palace+james+bamford
This book was published in 1983 .
It spends several hundred pages explaining how the NSA collects every electronic emanation from the planet.
They explain to people who bothered to read the book over the last 30 years, that that includes every radio, and telephone.
As we add new electronic devices like cell phones and computers it adds more forms of radiation .
We have been paying billions of dollars per year since 1947 to spy on other countries if they can't pick up Angela Merkel's phone calls we should get our money back.
And any one who reccommends doing away with the NSA is an idiot who would put us back to the days of ignorance and surprise that existed before WWII.
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40 or so years ago, I was a USAFSS radio traffic analyst, and worked with the finest linguists and Morse operators in the world...at that time we knew the possible threat the Bear and the Dragon posed... the tactical intelligence supplied by the Combat Apple and Burning Candy crews, along with the guys at the 6924th and 6922nd has been acknowledged as providing outstanding support to the air war against North VietNam... I sure would hate to lose that edge against an elusive and dedicated threat to the US
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40 or so years ago, I was a USAFSS radio traffic analyst, and worked with the finest linguists and Morse operators in the world...at that time we knew the possible threat the Bear and the Dragon posed... the tactical intelligence supplied by the Combat Apple and Burning Candy crews, along with the guys at the 6924th and 6922nd has been acknowledged as providing outstanding support to the air war against North VietNam... I sure would hate to lose that edge against an elusive and dedicated threat to the US
I agree and always have with your point....
But what need to be done is find a way so we can keep that.....and not lose the Bill Of Rights to do it.
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The amnesty talk was just political cover as Snowden gave the files to "journalists" while in Hong Kong. As Tom points out it has been widely known that the US and her allies have been exploiting the world's communications for a long time. I am sure that the release of these files will cause many more problems for European governments than for the US. Based on who Snowden gave the files, you can be sure that they will be slowly released to affect political elections in countries that are allied with us. Also understand that NATO has no military reason to exist with the creation of the EU. The truth is just a game of connect the dots. NATO is just a layer to protect the European political class who will claim "that they had no idea what was going on" and of course feign outrage.
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The best part is that Angela Merkel even has the right accent for "I know NOTHING !"
The one that got the biggest laugh out of me though was the Australians indignant claim that the US spied on Indonesia.
They would know since they shared the facility, and the take, the NSA's biggest listening post in the region is a joint Australian /US listening post in Alice Springs.
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someone needs to remind Ms. Merkel about the "Zimmerman Telegram".... :o
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What the NSA is doing is not right.
I am glad somebody like Snowden came along.
Ultimately, somebody higher higher wise as visions of doing something with all this data.
I would like to know what that vision includes.
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Good luck with that .
I bet they never dreamed how much juvenile crap they would have to wade through to find anything useful
with cell phones and texting from every 14 year old girl and Carlos Danger to sort through..
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Snowden is a f*cking idiot who lost his citizenship over something that has been common knowledge since at least the 1980's.
What do these ignorant brain dead azzholes think we've been paying billions of $ for since 1947 ?
I have to agree 100%. They're setting this guy up as if he is some kind of "patriot", when in reality he is an idiot who threw his life away for "exposing" something most either knew, or else should have known. He is nothing more than a little weasel who thinks he's James Bond. He's another idiot being played like a piano by all of our enemies, much like Hussein. Putin is laughing at this clown.
It is much the same with this other "transgender", (idiot guy in drag), Bradley Manning. Another crackpot, dirt bag who doesn't even know what sex he is. Then when he finally decides, he wants the taxpayers to pay to cut off his tool and nuts while he serves out his sentence. Total joke.
They need to take all 3 of these guys, (Snowden, Manning, Assange), and put a bullet in the back of their heads. All any of them are good for is to set an example. We'll even screw that up.
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Snowden is right that we will see a generation that has never known privacy because we accept so many intrusions.
It isn't a matter of "accepting it". There is no way around it. You have no choice in the matter, regardless of how, or where you live. Just ask Bin Laden. You're going to see it, and be forced to accept it no matter what. Technology makes it possible, and the government is simply using the technology, and putting it into play. Electronics, computers, cell phones, flash drives the size of a BIC lighter that can hold thousands of documents, cheap small drones equipped with listening devices and cameras, On Star that can tell most anyone where you go and what you do. Electronic banking and credit cards that tell most anyone what you buy when you get there.
This type of intervention was inevitable as technology moves forward at the speed of light. Hell, it was the government that set up the GPS system for the military, then decided they would let the citizens "use it". We then complain when we drop $600.00 for a top of the line Garmin, and suspect the government might be watching where we go with it. Gee ya' think? This stuff is all around us, and has been for years. It's only going to get worse, (or better), as time goes on. Personal privacy is gone. All of this is unavoidable. All idiots like Snowden did was awaken the dead. It doesn't matter because they'll bitch and moan for 5 minutes, then go right back to sleep.
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You can not include Julian Assange in the same group as Snowden and Manning.
Snowden and Manning violated laws, rules, conditions of employment.
Assange, being a foreign national, didn't violate anything.
Secondly, (this is just a thought ) where do we get an "expectation of privacy" in information that has left our control ?
We write our most personal information then expect it to be "secure" when left in an unattended tin box on the side of the street.
The fact is that the Genie, in the form of technology, is out of the bottle and if you want privacy it's OUR responsibility to take actions that provide it.
Expecting "them" to do something about it is how we wound up with foodstamps being the #1 employer in America.
American's demand that "they" do something about privacy and security, well, they did.
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I am curious about this intetview Shia Lebeof did on the Jay Leno show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNRgP4FVDzA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Was he just hyping up the story of the recorded phone conversation to sell a movie?
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i think the only reason he did what he did the way he did it was for money and fame.
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Here's a link to an interview Snowden did with a German journalist:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f93_1390833151#uQ2Ohe7q6easY0OG.99
It's very fascinating and I think we all need to hear what he says, no matter what you think of him.