The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: HAWKFISH on June 01, 2008, 10:24:21 PM
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I just bought a new stripped lower DPMS reciever from the gunshow. I gonna buy a complete parts kit and build up a standard AR-15 in .223. I've never assembled one before, nor do I have any of the tools for handguards etc.. so does anybody know any good "first time builder" information sources out there, i.e. good books or videos, etc that will show me how to put the rifle together once I get a parts kit. ** Also does anybody know if the DPMS recievers are totally mil-spec? and would they fit with a non-DPMS parts kit? .. I am familiar with AR's and have shot several. I've just not assembeled one from scratch. So, this will be a new adventure/hobby to work on once I can get everything I need. I don't want to screw it up and I want it to be done right and legal ...so I'm looking for any info or suggestions to help me get started.. Thanks..
HAWKFISH
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I just bought a new stripped lower DPMS reciever from the gunshow. I gonna buy a complete parts kit and build up a standard AR-15 in .223. I've never assembled one before, nor do I have any of the tools for handguards etc.. so does anybody know any good "first time builder" information sources out there, i.e. good books or videos, etc that will show me how to put the rifle together once I get a parts kit. ** Also does anybody know if the DPMS recievers are totally mil-spec? and would they fit with a non-DPMS parts kit? .. I am familiar with AR's and have shot several. I've just not assembeled one from scratch. So, this will be a new adventure/hobby to work on once I can get everything I need. I don't want to screw it up and I want it to be done right and legal ...so I'm looking for any info or suggestions to help me get started.. Thanks..
HAWKFISH
Doing the same thing here, as a 6.8. I'm using this site:
http://www.ar15.com/content/index.html#guides (http://www.ar15.com/content/index.html#guides)
and especially this one:
http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/assembly/lower/ (http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/assembly/lower/)
since I had no idea what the difference was between a takedown pin detent and a selector detent.
My assembly is stalled due to a move and a few domestic issues. Good luck with yours.
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Hawkfish, Pathfinder gave you some good info, I would also print the schematics for the rifle, there are some tricky things on a lower. 1st, any spring/detent should be oriented upward, not sideways, and be very careful on assembly as several of them have a tendency to fly away if not captured in some fashion. Especially the front pivot pin spring and detent. Go slow and keep a clean area so if anything flies away, you can find it. Next you will probably have to fit the safety, once again, go slow, and you will have to remove the trigger several times to accomplish this, it's just practice, get used to it.. Have fun on your build. You should have some roll pin punches to seat the roll pins for the bolt release and the lower trigger guard.
Best of luck, M25
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Having just done the very same thing not long ago, I highly recommend the lower parts kits from Rock River. You can buy them online, specify which trigger setup you want, and it's all there. It's a fun project.
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I admire your confidence Hawkfish. I was trying a simple modification project the past week and had to run for help. Good luck and take pictures.
Mac.
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New tip. I was helping a newbie build his first and he read a great idea online that helped him, ASSEMBLE THE LOWER IN A SEE THROUGH PLASTIC BAG. It will catch anything that tries to get away, and maybe save an eye or 2.
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I have completly taken my AR apart both upper and lower receivers. There are so many good sites to get parts from that it hard to make a choice. Since mine is an Olympic Arms, I have stayed with their parts and everything great. As the other guys have said get as much information as you can and print out whatever you can. Have fun.
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When I started to build mine, I got the correct tools to do the job as I *knew* I would be building more. While it can be done without the right tools, it certainly helps. If nothing else, roll pin punches and starters are the best place to start.
-Bidah
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When I built my lower I found these books to be invaluable. (especially since I was installing a Jewell trigger)
The AR-15 Complete Owner's Guide, Volume 1 by Walt Kuleck and Scott Duff, (2nd Edition)
The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide, Volume 2 by Walt Kuleck and Clint McKee
The North Cape publications are terrific books for all things service rifle oriented. If you should so happen to get thru the AR, I am sure you will eventually make the move to a good old Garand or M1 Carbine.
Brownells is just a tad expensive but worth it for tools. As any first timer you will either get too few or too many tools and gadgets. Expect to spend as much on tools as the lower at least. As my old man used to say "got to have the right tool for the job". This is what I wound up buying. Some useless, others I could not have done the job without. This was to build a Match grade Service rifle.
Brownells 1 AR-15 Front Sight Bench Block 080-000-252
Peace River Arms 1 AR-15/M16 Upper Receiver Action Block 702-003-015
Peace River Arms 1 AR-15/M16 Lower Receiver Vise Block 702-004-015
Brownells 1 Roll Pin Punch Kit AR-15/M16 Kit 230-112-105
Lyman 1 Electronic Trigger Pull Gauge 7832248
Brownells 1 AR-15 Hammer Drop Block 080-953-000
Brownells 1 M16 Pivot Pin Detent Depressor 080-216-010
Brownells 1 M16 Pivot Pin Detent Installation Tool 080-216-011
Loctite 1 Thread Locker BLUE 242 24200
Tetra 4 Tetra Gun Grease 1oz
Fulton Armory 1 Armorer's Multi Wrench FA-AR-600-108
Hoppe's 1 Gun Cleaning Pad
Tipton 1 Best Gun Vise
DecoColor 2 White Fine Line paint pen
1 Allen wrench 3/16" - 4 1/2" long
1 Brass Punch set - labeled #1 #2 #3
1 GTS Handguard Removal Tool AR-15
Wisdom 1 Wisdom Heavy Duty Bench Vise 3"
JP 1 JP Enterprises Bore Guide AR-15
Jewell 1 Small Pin Jewell Trigger 100-002-557
Rock River Arms 1 Lower Receiver Parts Kit AR0120
Rock River Arms 1 A2 Buttstock Kit AR007K
Superior Shooting Systems 1 AR15 CS Buffer Spring - Std Length
Superior Shooting Systems 1 AR15 CS Trigger/Hammer Spring Set
Creedmoor 1 Accu-Wedge
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I joined the army and spent 8 weeks learning how to do things like that, but I wouldn't recommend anyone else try it. Get an army or marine corps TM technical manual at least level 3 maintenance, like TM 9-1005-249-23&P. The 23&P on the end means it has 2nd and 3rd level plus parts. Buy or make all the special tools that you'll need. It shows them in the appendix in the back of the TM. You'll need them if you build an upper too. There is also a TM available free online as epaper. Just Google M16A2 Technical Manual.
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1776Rebel,
Have you had any doubling with the Jewell Trigger? I did and sent it to Jewell who declared the trigger had no problems. After trying several things finally by adding more sear engagement and more weight on trigger pull, have not had any doubling yet. Other than that I like the trigger.
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DesertMarine, I like the Jewell trigger but am aware of the little problem of multiple shots. I have not had that occur to me. If it did I would be real concerned. There is a guy in jail doing a couple of years because of that.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68590
After I installed the lower, I was at Camp Perry last year for the SAFS class. The AMU instructor I had was a young kid and we were chatting. I mentioned my Jewell trigger and he pops up with "oh yeah I had one of those go full auto on me". I nearly soiled my draws. That was when I became aware of this problem. I have not gone crazy with the settings because of this. It is a crisp 5 pounds. If it misbehaves I will seriously consider changing it.
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1776Rebel,
I had heard about that guy. I hate to put a stock trigger back in. Been considering another match type trigger but not too familiar with what is out there now. At the time I put the Jewell it was considered top of the line.
The attitude of the Feds is not good. I can see it if someone takes a semi-auto trigger and puts a full-auto trigger and bolt carrier. I have no interest in full-auto, had enough fun with them already.
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From my research last year, the Jewell is definitely one of the best match triggers no doubt about it. Some others that I came across that had good reviews were the following:
Geissele AR-15 Two Stage Trigger
http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16933&cat=285&page=2
Rock River Match 2 Stage
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=19696&title=AR-15%20NATIONAL%20MATCH%202-STAGE%20TRIGGER
Milazzo-Kreiger
I have read that it is no longer made but you will see alot of references to it as the best. US Army marksmanship unit uses it.
The caveat to remember is that these are all definitely MATCH triggers intended for competition environments. If you are thinking "tactical" at all, what has stuck in my mind is the following. Apparently Gunsite training will not even allow you to take their tactical rifle courses if you have one of the above in your gun. They are simply not intended for heavy ruff use. End of story. Put the factory trigger group in and leave it alone. If your life is going to depend on it, it ain't worth monkeying with something that could cause you grief.
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I did a couple of AR-15 trigger jobs myself by carefully stoning the engagement surfaces. No telling how long they last as stoning it wears past the hard surface into the softer steel, but one of them is getting worn already. It's safer and easier to get one of the Jard adjustable, or non-adjustable, trigger kits. They can each be had as single-stage or double stage, from 1-1/2 to 5 pounds. http://www.jardinc.com/index.htm I got a 3-pound non-adjustable single-stage from my favorite place in the whole world, Brownells. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=20059&title=AR-15%20NON-ADJUSTABLE%20TRIGGER%20KIT I'm not worried about this one going full-auto on me, but if it does when I'm using my Beta C-Mag it will sure be exciting!!! 100-rounds full-auto when I don't expect it and I'll need clean undewear. ;D