The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Tyler Durden on June 03, 2008, 05:33:31 AM
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Hi there folks,
Yeah, watch this YouTube video and tell me/us what you would do if anything?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYOtH4XNw6U&feature=related
This is my first out in the open post. I don't mean to be too controversial, so if you all don't mind, be kinda civil in your responses.
I am from ILL-annoyed near St. Louis and we don't have legal CCW.
What would you do?
If you were a bystander?
If you were the cell phone guy?
If you were CCW'ing legally?
If you have $30 K laying around for a defense fund (LOL!... well... kinda :( )?
What say you?
Thanks,
PS: Any dial upper's here have any problems with the size of my avatar, please let me know. I don't know if the forum software automatically resizes it. Thanks!
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Welcome to this site. Interesting post, scary to watch all of the people just standing around watching this go down.
I think I would have called 911 the minute she called for help - and then gotten the hell out of Dodge. Personal defense means getting away from crap as much as it does pulling a CCW. Besides, no justification since he was not attacking anyone other than the one guy.
4 years for this assault by a prior felon? ??? Time to clean the gene pool.
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Tyler,
Both links in your sig line go to same vid.
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I watched something similar before I had my cell phone. It was scary watching someone getting pulled partially out of a car window and getting the s--t beat out of them and the driver not doing anything to get away.
Richard
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Calling 911 and leaving is definitely a good choice, getting a good description of the attacker and his GF and vehicle if possible.
I would disagree about the CCW issue as there is a very good chance that the victim runs a high risk of permanent bodily injury or death. There is the "fear of death" question and the self defense and defense of others decision that has to be made. Just because the combatants are unarmed (and there isn't a guarantee that the attacker wasn't armed in some way-pocket knife visible in pocket, loose clothing hiding a pistol ect-not visible to camera but possibly to someone in the room) and similar in size does not mean that death isn't possible. Lots of blows to the head and not a lot of fighting back or defense.
A lot of places the reason people get CCW permits is to defend themselves or family, doesn't that extend to someone you don't know that is being attacked? Some of these "active shooters" have been stopped by laypersons or off duty LEOs with a CCW but they weren't in the direct line of attack. Another example of the mental defect that LEO, Fire, EMS, and military personnel have is we tend to go towards chaos instead of away from it.
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Tyler welcome to the forum with a great post, you are probably looking at this at a civilian CCW side of things where you MAT be justified in pulling your Roscoe, it depends if you are about half his size and in fear of yours or the mans life and how many bystanders are willing to be your witness( does not look like to many) Lessons to be learned )1 Do not write a check with you mouth you ass can't cash.)2 patience is virtue and can save you from a whoopin. ) When she is gone ask the manager (who saw her cut in line) why he did not do anything about it.)4 With all those people in line is one more going to make that much of a difference.)5 after being assaulted call 911 like the manager should have in the first place. He got 4 years as a prior felon, if I was the judge I would have given him 4 years for each punch. As a Leo. get out side, Call for back up, announced myself, then Maybe I may have to pull down on him depending on how he( and maybe how Bertha) are going to react. Then make the arrest, go fill out the paper work go back and get my pizza.
Why go outside? All thise pepole and you ae going to pull a gun and maybe get in a fight for it and a innocent get hurt. Bad bad bad.
Last of all , when he seen thing are going to get bad....go some place else and get your pizza....FAST.
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Haz Cat wrote:
Tyler,
Both links in your sig line go to same vid.
Thank you SIR!
I went ahead and fixed that.
I have floated that youtube video around on a few other forums in threads I have started. It is interesting to read people's comments on that situation.
So far there have actually been quite a few posters who said that the cell phone guy mouthed off to the Crazy Woman.
I have watched that video several times... and there is no way in heck that cell phone guy said anything to that woman to get her all riled up like that.
Besides, she still crossed the line. In textbook legal definitions, the whole two or three law classes I had as an undergrad she committed an assault consumated by a battery.
Plain and simple, if you ask me.
When responders in this thread say that cell phone guy mouthed off to Crazy Woman, it's almost like they are turning the tables on who the victim actually is in this case, like they are rationalizing Tiny's and Crazy Woman's behavior.
Huh?
They might as well be saying "Cell phone guy had it coming."
What!
Anywhooo... I don't want any of those posters to be a witness, ANYWHERE!
Jeeeesssshhhhh..... ::)
Besides, the more and more I watch this video, the more and more I get the impression that Crazy Woman and Tiny were out looking for a fight anyway......
And the "I'm to absorbed in my cell phone conversation guy" was like that gimpey zebra out on the Serengetti, and Crazy Woman and Tiny were like hienas or lions, and they smelled blood already...
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DON"T "SIR" ME, SLICK! I actually work for a living and both of my parents were married, to each other when I was born!
Old Drill Sergeant rant. ;D
I think your take on the bad actors is pretty much spot on. Most likely the cell phone dude did say something to whomever he was talking to but they were looking for a victum and he fit the mold.
Me? Had I been there and carrying I would have pulled, shouted stop and shot the bastard. Unarmed? I'd looked for something to hit him with. (Hey, I'm old!)
Happy outcome with the law or not, I'm still gonna be a sheepdog.
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Hey Tyler and welcome to this forum, I would have called 911 AS I WAS LEAVING. Either one of those "big" aggravating people could not catch me on the run. I would never have let the big man that close to me.
Should they have followed me to my car, and continued in a threatening manner, that would be different, I would feel that "big" man wasn't coming to apologize, and being bigger than me would feel my life was in danger.
I would have defended myself, my P3AT would feel even smaller than it is, however 6+1 of Rem Golden Sabers on a "big" knot head or center mass would at least change his attitude quickly. I would really like a S&W 500 on such a "BIG" target, but not really practical for CCW. Oh, and a reload really, really quickly. :o With 6 more.
I hope I never have to go into that "mode" like a light switch and defend myself with potentially lethal force, but I train myself often, listen to more experienced instructors in SD, practice, practice, practice, and will defend myself if required.
Welcome again, you will enjoy this forum more than any other.
Take Care
Tom W.
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1) Out the other exit while looking out for the rest of the posse.
2) 911
BTW, FOUR YEARS????? WTF? That light of a sentence is a second crime
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If I'm with my wife and/or kids, get outside and call 911. If i'm alone, what the hell, clock that fat basterd with whatever I could find whilest he was destracted with his prey. I've been there an done it, but it was a much smaller guy, and I didn't need a clocker knocker. I just picked him up, threw him across the room then held him down until the cops got there.
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Hi there folks,
What would you do?
If you were a bystander?
If you were the cell phone guy?
If you were CCW'ing legally?
A classic example of why you should avoid lunatic people in large groups. If you listen to the narrator the guy on the cell phone
(in condition white) is apparently making smart aleck remarks to whomever he has called.
The instigator is clearly the woman who walked and violated protocols. But if cellphone guy wants to stir the pudding he should
definitely be prepared to stand and deliver. To get creamed by a vicious thug for no reason is not my idea of a good time.
See Walt Rauch's Ten Rules.
Best regards,
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Calling 911 and leaving is definitely a good choice, getting a good description of the attacker and his GF and vehicle if possible.
I would disagree about the CCW issue as there is a very good chance that the victim runs a high risk of permanent bodily injury or death. There is the "fear of death" question and the self defense and defense of others decision that has to be made. Just because the combatants are unarmed (and there isn't a guarantee that the attacker wasn't armed in some way-pocket knife visible in pocket, loose clothing hiding a pistol ect-not visible to camera but possibly to someone in the room) and similar in size does not mean that death isn't possible. Lots of blows to the head and not a lot of fighting back or defense.
A lot of places the reason people get CCW permits is to defend themselves or family, doesn't that extend to someone you don't know that is being attacked? Some of these "active shooters" have been stopped by laypersons or off duty LEOs with a CCW but they weren't in the direct line of attack. Another example of the mental defect that LEO, Fire, EMS, and military personnel have is we tend to go towards chaos instead of away from it.
We had a great thread on this site about this very subject last year, beginning with what to carry in a car - pistol, shotgun or folding carbine. The upshot, from MB and others, was get the heck out of Dodge while you can, especially if you are not a cop or even a LEO. Besides, even LEOs are not obligated legally to intervene in any crime.
In this case, you do not know if this thug the size of Delaware had buddies outside or not, it could escalate very very quickly and very badly. The sheep are standing around watching. Being a sheepdog is one option, but since the thug left after a couple of blows there was little to do since only fists were flying. "He's big" is not usually adequate rationale for shooting someone, especially if he was not pounding on you.
Self defense begins with problem avoidance, and only if you cannot avoid should you be prepared to use lethal force. Check out Massad Ayoob on this. Depending on the city/state, you could have lots of legal trouble for even pulling a CCW if your life was not in direct danger.
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^^^ well, dude, you gotta link to that other thread then?
I did try a google search for Walt Rauch's list of 10 things, but I couldn't find that either.
Do you have a link for that also?
Thanks!
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Being a woman with a CCW.....hmmmmmmmmmmm... what would I do ???
I know what my first split reaction would be to want to do.. ( as all of us here would want to do)
Bitch Slap the "Ho" first..........and put a round or 6 in "the brother's" empty ass head!
okay....*big deep breath, Teresa*.................................................
I'd call 911 and get as far away in the room as I could from the crazy s.o.b.... but never take my eyes off him.
real gutsy *and probably stupid move : Could throw something at him..hitting him so he would come after me.. and THEN..I would be defending my own life at that point..
Bang......He's dead. One more scum bag off the street. ;)
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^^^ well, dude, you gotta link to that other thread then?
I did try a google search for Walt Rauch's list of 10 things, but I couldn't find that either.
Do you have a link for that also?
Thanks!
I can't find it on a search.
Marshal / M'ette, do we archive threads off the site after a period of time? It was a thread early on in DRTV's history where we bounced around the ideas for car carry, and MB was looking into a folding stock AK or the like with magazines handy.
I think the thread started because of some urban disturbance like the Juneteenth riots in Chicago or Denver, and the question like here - what would you do if...."
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^^^ well, dude, you gotta link to that other thread then?
I did try a google search for Walt Rauch's list of 10 things, but I couldn't find that either.
Do you have a link for that also?
Thanks!
The Link for Rauch's Rules is right here:
http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/rauch/28.shtml (http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/rauch/28.shtml)
There are actually 24 rules. My bad.
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Being a woman with a CCW.....hmmmmmmmmmmm... what would I do ???
I know what my first split reaction would be to want to do.. ( as all of us here would want to do)
Bitch Slap the "Ho" first..........and put a round or 6 in "the brother's" empty ass head!
okay....*big deep breath, Teresa*.................................................
I'd call 911 and get as far away in the room as I could from the crazy s.o.b.... but never take my eyes off him.
real gutsy *and probably stupid move : Could throw something at him..hitting him so he would come after me.. and THEN..I would be defending my own life at that point..
Bang......He's dead. One more scum bag off the street. ;)
Right there with ya.. Looks like something (Best Defence) might cover..
shooter32
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"He's big" is not usually adequate rationale for shooting someone, especially if he was not pounding on you.
Self defense begins with problem avoidance, and only if you cannot avoid should you be prepared to use lethal force. Check out Massad Ayoob on this. Depending on the city/state, you could have lots of legal trouble for even pulling a CCW if your life was not in direct danger.
He's big" is not usually adequate rationale for shooting someone, especially if he was not pounding on you
Actually it is- the legal principle is "disparity of size". And before We, the People, got tangled up in legal (B)olshevik (S)illiness there was a commonly held principle to defend against imminent harm to yourself AND OTHERS.
Bless Massad Ayoob's heart, he means well, but he seems to delight in spreading unnecessary Fear,Uncertainty, Confusion and Doubt instead of illuminating issues to the advantage of a civilized society.
Part of this is because we have built a legal foundation of bad lawyering, bad cases with the result of bad law. In many instances
even the District Attorneys, Defense Attorneys and Police REALLY, REALLY do not know the law, the Constitution or the principles thereof.
You can not reclaim your heritage of common sense if you do not advocate for it everywhere, all the time.
Rant off.
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I was in a situation like this.
I was in a bar and a guy bigger than me and bigger than the guy he was attacking knocked the victim to the floor and was kicking and stomping on his head.
Without thinking I was out of my chair, had the big guy bent backwards over the bar, my forearm across his throat, my groin in his him left hip, his left arm under my left arm, my right hand pinning his right elbow. He was effectively subdued.
A buddy I was with came up behind me and I had him watch my back and have other patrons get the victim moved away if possible while I made sure the fightr had gone out of the attacker.
The attacker choked out a reply that he had had enough so I cautiously release him and he bolted out the front door...
I have no idea what the legal aspects of my actions were, but I know I could not stand by and watch someone get beaten like that. (I'm 6'2 and weigh 220)...
I hope I will always have the courage to act on what I think is right rather than legal if someone's life is in jeaporady....
I did not have a CCW at the time, but if I had and the tables were turned on me and the big guy started attacking me, I feel I would have drawn.
Again, I have no idea what the legal aspects there might have been if I did shoot...did I escalate ..or did I use the correct force to stop a beating and then come under an attack that would justify the use of a handgun...
I was contacted by the defense lawyer of the attacker who seemed to be under the impression that there was several of me restraining his client...
The bartender did buy me a beer...and I was thanked by the victim the next time he saw me in the bar...so I guess I did good...especially for the beer :D
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What would you do?
(1) If you were a bystander?
(2) If you were the cell phone guy?
(3) If you were CCW'ing legally?
(4) If you have $30 K laying around for a defense fund (LOL!... well... kinda :( )?
What say you?
1. Watch. Once the big guy smacked him, get my arm around his neck and pull him off. This is given my size and the fact that I'm behind him for a blood-choke hold
2.Not thrown down my phone. Make eye contact with the lady, but not be aggressive or timid. Once hit, by the big guy, start retreating, and if needed, draw.
3. If 1, keep the gun where big guy can't reach it and if 2, see line above.
4. In Texas, probably wouldn't need it. If no criminal charges against me, no civil can be filed. IIRC I need to review self defense law and check on that.
This type of video always bothers me because nobody helps. That always angers me.
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Actually my older son ( who is 6'2" and about 280 ) was a bouncer in college so he has had his share of off the wall crazies and my youngest son ( who is 6'4" and about 280 ) was in this situation in a bar awhile back. He has a CCW but didn't have to use it... He promptly grabbed the guy off the other guy and got it broken up with a bit of strong arming. He was afraid to hit him, cause Derek is VERY VERY strong and was afraid he would kill him or worse hurt him bad enough to be sued. ( Isn't it a shame when you have to worry about a criminal suing you when they are the ones committing the crime?)
But then again.. me being female and hating injustice , in that situation, is a very hard combination. I have the guts and the will to do something.. just don't have the "manpower size" to make it happen. ( I guess I need to take a karate course.) ;)
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Marshal'ette, my brother in law plays college football, and is about 6'4" and 315 (280 in the offseason...GULP). He's had multiple people pick fights with him just because he's the big guy. Luckily for them, he's very laid back. He doesn't want to hit folks if ha can help it because 1) could really mess up his hands and 2) he could seriously injure them.
Luckily for me, we get along great.
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:) I understand completely. Both my sons and their dad are very physically strong.
When you hear me call them "my pack".. I mean literally that.
When I am with all of them and we are out somewhere in the public. I always feel safer than when I am with girls etc.
I realize anything can happen.. but they all watch out for "mama'.. even though they.. more than anyone... know I can handle myself pretty much. ;)
Hell I didn't feed 'em good all these years to not get something out of it.. LOL ;D
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Actually my older son ( who is 6'2" and about 280 ) was a bouncer in college so he has had his share of off the wall crazies and my youngest son ( who is 6'4" and about 280 ) was in this situation in a bar awhile back. He has a CCW but didn't have to use it... He promptly grabbed the guy off the other guy and got it broken up with a bit of strong arming. He was afraid to hit him, cause Derek is VERY VERY strong and was afraid he would kill him or worse hurt him bad enough to be sued. ( Isn't it a shame when you have to worry about a criminal suing you when they are the ones committing the crime?)
But then again.. me being female and hating injustice , in that situation, is a very hard combination. I have the guts and the will to do something.. just don't have the "manpower size" to make it happen. ( I guess I need to take a karate course.) ;)
May I take the time to remind everyone how nice you are!
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I hope we will be hearing more from Tyler Durdan, This is a very thought provoking thread. All of us have put thought into what to do when we are the victim and there is no question that lethal force is justified, but what about the grey areas, like this. I checked my state laws and they say you can use a fire arm to stop a sexual assualt, but not a beating if you have the option of leaving, unless you are the victim AND have a right to be there.
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I'm new to this site. I was in search of scenarios to consider regarding self-defense and CCW. If this thread is any example, I think I found what I was looking for.
As for what I would do - I'm a middle-aged woman (Ooh, I hate saying that), 5'8" and weight about a buck and a half. If I'm carrying or not, I now always have a knife available (my husband thinks I'm nuts). I'd like to think I would have done something to help the cell phone guy as he did not do anything to warrant a beating like that. Also, I live in Kansas and the eminent danger of self or others rule does apply - and I would have considered this fella in eminent danger. So I like HazCat's approach - pulling my pistol, yelling stop and shooting him - you certainly would not want to just warn him off and have him waiting for you in the parking lot later.
But, there are a lot of variables that are not known here - the guy was outside, perhaps waiting with friends in the parking lot, so you're not just dealing with one giant crazy dude and a mouthy broad, but perhaps a lot of giant crazy dudes (they travel in packs you know). You also have to consider all the bystanders in the restaurant and the close quarters. If this guy does have friends and you shoot him, they are not going to just come in asking questions, they may come in blazing, potentially killing or wounding a lot of people. I'm hearing "Spock" logic in my head right now - "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
So, looking at this logically, perhaps calling 911 and being a good witness is the best approach here. Not really my personality, but now that I carry regularly, I'm trying to consider all the consequences. Having said that - if one or two of the other big guys in the place tried to stop the attack, I would have grabbed anything I could find to help them out. It’s just too bad for the cell phone guy that there weren't men like Solus or Marshal'ette's son's in the restaurant when this happened.
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GunpowderAnd Lead, Welcome to the forum. I know I speak for all here when I say I hope you have indeed found the site you were looking for.
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I wouldn't have thrown down the phone. It'd at least make a good fist load. :-\
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GunpowderAndLead... welcome girl! :) Please don't be a stranger in here. (It would be nice to have some "female back-up "once and awhile. LOL)
Not that you really need it in here. These guys in here are the best & will go to the ends of the earth for you..in many many ways.
(Behave yourself Haz.. :-X don't comment) :-X
Concerning the video.. if a few of "our kind" hung out together.. we could have definitely lended a constructive hand to helping the cell phone guy..and maybe got a few more to chip in and put some knots on that mean dudes head!
The cell phone user who should have (in my opinion) put the phone down and paid more attention to Ms Loud Mouth Soup... Maybe been on alert mode. But he still probably would have got his ass whupped.
I really DO wonder why people as a whole don't jump in and band together when an injustice is happening. It has become such a lackadaisical.. who cares... it doesn't concern me attitude. Makes me sick. >:(
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GunpowderAndLead... welcome girl! :) Please don't be a stranger in here. (It would be nice to have some "female back-up "once and awhile. LOL)
Not that you really need it in here. These guys in here are the best & will go to the ends of the earth for you..in many many ways.
(Behave yourself Haz.. :-X don't comment) :-X
Concerning the video.. if a few of "our kind" hung out together.. we could have definitely lended a constructive hand to helping the cell phone guy..and maybe got a few more to chip in and put some knots on that mean dudes head!
The cell phone user who should have (in my opinion) put the phone down and paid more attention to Ms Loud Mouth Soup... Maybe been on alert mode. But he still probably would have got his ass whupped.
I really DO wonder why people as a whole don't jump in and band together when an injustice is happening. It has become such a lackadaisical.. who cares... it doesn't concern me attitude. Makes me sick. >:(
Because they are brainwashed into thinking violence is bad, it's not, it's nuetral just like guns themselves. The INTENT is what defines good or bad. A hostage rescue is nothing but controlled violence, is that bad ? Add to that the "I don't want to get involved" syndrome and the fact that most Americans are simply 2 legged sheep, and this is what you get.
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Those are some very interesting questions. I feel like the best answer is http://mace.com/index.php/product/index/id/14 (http://mace.com/index.php/product/index/id/14).
I do not carry a handgun, as I have not gotten the permit, but I do carry the link below. I feel like it gives enough protection from my level of threat. After watching several times, it did not justify lethal force. Some force was necessary. The owner leaves the front of the frame immediately after she calls for help - I would bet to call 911. The man with the phone heightened the tensions in the situation when he spiked his phone. This, like his comment beforehand, really makes no sense. The scenario should have gone as follows.
Bell rings as the door is opened.
Woman: "Pizza!"
Phone: "Excuse me kind woman, I believe that we have formed a line."
Woman: "I am sorry."
After this there is no further reason for hostility.
In all seriousness, this would have been a perfect scenario for the Super Shorty that Bane tested earlier this month and don't forget about the Judge.
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Those are some very interesting questions. I feel like the best answer is http://mace.com/index.php/product/index/id/14 (http://mace.com/index.php/product/index/id/14).
I do not carry a handgun, as I have not gotten the permit, but I do carry the link below. I feel like it gives enough protection from my level of threat. After watching several times, it did not justify lethal force. Some force was necessary. The owner leaves the front of the frame immediately after she calls for help - I would bet to call 911. The man with the phone heightened the tensions in the situation when he spiked his phone. This, like his comment beforehand, really makes no sense. The scenario should have gone as follows.
Bell rings as the door is opened.
Woman: "Pizza!"
Phone: "Excuse me kind woman, I believe that we have formed a line."
Woman: "I am sorry."
After this there is no further reason for hostility.
In all seriousness, this would have been a perfect scenario for the Super Shorty that Bane tested earlier this month and don't forget about the Judge.
Boy freind has me thinking Cassull
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I would try not to get beat up.
In another forum I visit, if they saw this video, I'm sure at least one person would say TNB.
Typical Negro Behavior. Unfortunately, his and hers both seem to be.
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I would try not to get beat up.
In another forum I visit, if they saw this video, I'm sure at least one person would say TNB.
Typical Negro Behavior. Unfortunately, his and hers both seem to be.
If it quacks and waddles.......
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If it quacks and waddles.......
;D Yep.
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tomboogan on the 3rd page wrote:
I hope we will be hearing more from Tyler Durdan, This is a very thought provoking thread. All of us have put thought into what to do when we are the victim and there is no question that lethal force is justified, but what about the grey areas, like this. I checked my state laws and they say you can use a fire arm to stop a sexual assualt, but not a beating if you have the option of leaving, unless you are the victim AND have a right to be there.
Thanks Tom, I appreciate the comments.
I stole the video link and the idea for this thread originally off the Sig forum.
I first felt that more people needed to see it and be faced with "What would you do?"
I can't remember if I mentioned this already, but I have floated it around on a few other forums.
In one forum, several of the replies were along the lines of "Cell phone guy talked smack to her, so he brought it on himself. He got what he deserved."
Wow!
::)
I just could not believe that.
So far it seems that the DRTV forum is filled with nicer or more decent people. ;D
It has been fun and educating reading everyone's responses.
Heck, who knows maybe some self defense legal expert and Michael Bane will get together on his new show and discuss this video, or some other videos like it.
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Now that I've shad some time to think, I am truly wondering over carrying my Noisy Cricket (aka Ruger LCP) - I doubt if this guy would even notice being shot, even with good placement. Reminds me of the joke - if I shot him and he found out, he'd be really pissed! :D
So maybe it's back to my .45 . . . :-\
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Now that I've shad some time to think, I am truly wondering over carrying my Noisy Cricket (aka Ruger LCP) - I doubt if this guy would even notice being shot, even with good placement. Reminds me of the joke - if I shot him and he found out, he'd be really pissed! :D
So maybe it's back to my .45 . . . :-\
Good Point, .45 or like a recent post "ode to the snubbie". I don't carry enough mags for my P3AT .380 for that big basta** in the video. It would slow him down, I can run faster! :o
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Now that I've shad some time to think, I am truly wondering over carrying my Noisy Cricket (aka Ruger LCP) - I doubt if this guy would even notice being shot, even with good placement. Reminds me of the joke - if I shot him and he found out, he'd be really pissed! :D
So maybe it's back to my .45 . . . :-\
I guarantee that if I put 3 or 4 rounds of 380 silver tips in his chest and head he would 'notice'.
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tomboogan on the 3rd page wrote:
Thanks Tom, I appreciate the comments.
I stole the video link and the idea for this thread originally off the Sig forum.
I first felt that more people needed to see it and be faced with "What would you do?"
I can't remember if I mentioned this already, but I have floated it around on a few other forums.
In one forum, several of the replies were along the lines of "Cell phone guy talked smack to her, so he brought it on himself. He got what he deserved."
Wow!
::)
I just could not believe that.
So far it seems that the DRTV forum is filled with nicer or more decent people. ;D
It has been fun and educating reading everyone's responses.
Heck, who knows maybe some self defense legal expert and Michael Bane will get together on his new show and discuss this video, or some other videos like it.
I don't think I'm the only one here who has been booted off other forums because of my answers to those sort of people ;D
On his podcast last week MB said one segment of the show would be devoted to those type of scenario's.
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The closest I have ever been to that situation was the night I happened to be in a convenience store when some LUB (Large Unruly Bastard) started kicking the crap out of some poor soul for no apparent reason. I am licensed and I was carrying, but elected to give him a GOOD whack over the head with the steel fire extinguisher that I found hanging on a suppot pillar. Took the fight right out of the LUB, I can guarantee you, and caused a LOT less paperwork than I'd have had to do if I had ventilated his worthless ass!!