The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: JohnJacobH on June 05, 2008, 08:41:21 AM

Title: When Mobs Attack
Post by: JohnJacobH on June 05, 2008, 08:41:21 AM
Either it is going to be a long hot summer or we may not have to wait for another Rodney King Verdict to carry serious defense weapons when we travel.

Michael covered this awhile back but in connection with a specific event. This apparently just occurred as part of the normal urban
landscape.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/16461498/detail.html (http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/16461498/detail.html)

Excerpt:

WARREN, Mich. -- Police said 20 to 30 men who brutally attacked and robbed a motorist Saturday night may also be responsible for several other violent crimes that took place the same day.

Four people were taken into custody for questioning after a motorist was beaten unconscious.

Police said the incident took place when Andy Kauffman, 29, and his wife, Angelina, were driving on North River Road when more than two dozen men wearing ball caps and baggy shorts spread out across the street and blocked traffic.
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: gunman1911 on June 05, 2008, 09:18:12 AM
20 to 30 men I would consider that in fear of my life and my choice of weapon would be my car!
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: Michael Bane on June 05, 2008, 09:31:34 AM
I'm gonna jump into this on my new BEST DEFENSE series (expect big time heat!).

There is always a huge AWARENESS issue in any group attack...the victims wandered into a predator pack's territory...I strongly refer you to ANIMAL PLANET to see how that works. There are some points I always think about with mobs:

1. Multiple assailants represent a huge escalation of force on the part of the mob. Any "mob" of people represent a lethal threat.
2. Don't leave the big metal box under any conditions! Doors locked; windows up; engine running; 911 on the cell phone...leave the phone on and make sure you shout loud enough for the police to hear what's going on.
3. As hard as it will be to force yourself to do, use the big metal box to batter your way out of the situation. Remember, your life is threatened RIGHT NOW!
4. If the mob assaults the big metal box by attempting to roll the car over or if any windshield cracks, you've now found your way to the worst case. While you need to keep trying to get away, your focus needs to shift to addressing the immediate threats with your firearm.

That's why I call for all you guys who can get permits to do so and carry your gun!

Michael B
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: CZShooter on June 05, 2008, 10:01:50 AM
Well put, MB. This also confirms the necessity for high-capacity magazines and extra mags. I also keep a set of ear plugs on my dash (put 911 on speaker and insert plugs...enclosed space + BANG = hearing loss). Not saying I'll have time or the mental capacity to do so...but they're there in case.
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: hodman on June 05, 2008, 10:40:39 AM
Quote from: Michael Bane on June 05, 2008, 09:31:34 AM
I'm gonna jump into this on my new BEST DEFENSE series (expect big time heat!).

There is always a huge AWARENESS issue in any group attack...the victims wandered into a predator pack's territory...I strongly refer you to ANIMAL PLANET to see how that works. There are some points I always think about with mobs:

1. Multiple assailants represent a huge escalation of force on the part of the mob. Any "mob" of people represent a lethal threat.
2. Don't leave the big metal box under any conditions! Doors locked; windows up; engine running; 911 on the cell phone...leave the phone on and make sure you shout loud enough for the police to hear what's going on.
3. As hard as it will be to force yourself to do, use the big metal box to batter your way out of the situation. Remember, your life is threatened RIGHT NOW!
4. If the mob assaults the big metal box by attempting to roll the car over or if any windshield cracks, you've now found your way to the worst case. While you need to keep trying to get away, your focus needs to shift to addressing the immediate threats with your firearm.

That's why I call for all you guys who can get permits to do so and carry your gun!

Michael B

1. Multiple assailants represent a huge escalation of force on the part of the mob. Any "mob" of people represent a lethal threat.  The term here is disparity of force and all states recognize this as a justification
2. Don't leave the big metal box under any conditions! Doors locked; windows up; engine running; 911 on the cell phone...leave the phone on and make sure you shout loud enough for the police to hear what's going on In a violent encounter there are only two choices victim or asshole. Be the victim by calling the police but don’t be victimized by the mob.
3. As hard as it will be to force yourself to do, use the big metal box to batter your way out of the situation. Remember, your life is threatened RIGHT NOW!
Lets do the math 230 grain projectile at 950 FPS =Power factor of 218
Average car in the USA  at 20 MPH = Power factor of 825,756

Most experts agree that Mob mentality is group think. “The rules don’t apply to US I will not be held responsible ” the most effective way to break up this group think is personal pain it transitions the mind from “The rules don’t apply to US” to there are consequences for my actions.
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: ratcatcher55 on June 05, 2008, 11:13:23 AM
I can say that nothing says get out of the way like a large V-8 SUV rapidly accelerating in you direction.

I have done it twice, once overseas and once in Camden, NJ. It works in any language or culture.
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: pioneer on June 05, 2008, 02:11:26 PM
Michael,
     No reason to be concerned about taking heat, and if any does come your way, give it right back.  We call that the "force continuum.”    Sometimes you need to take it one step at a time, and sometimes you need to skip a step or two.  All we do is respond to the threat level displayed by the aggressors.  Several times as a cop, I’d be holding someone at gun-point and they’d ask sarcastically, “What are you going to do, man, shoot me?” 

My response was, and remains; “That’s up to you.”   At that point you could hear the gears turning, and they’d give it up.  Sort of like a verbal red dot.  

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Me/police.png)



Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: ericire12 on June 05, 2008, 03:07:21 PM
Quote from: pioneer on June 05, 2008, 02:11:26 PM

Several times as a cop, I’d be holding someone at gun-point and they’d ask sarcastically, “What are you going to do, man, shoot me?” 

My response was, and remains; “That’s up to you.”   At that point you could hear the gears turning, and they’d give it up.  Sort of like a verbal red dot.  



Nice!
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: tumblebug on June 05, 2008, 03:32:49 PM
That is always up to you.
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: gunman1911 on June 05, 2008, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: pioneer on June 05, 2008, 02:11:26 PM
Michael,
     No reason to be concerned about taking heat, and if any does come your way, give it right back.  We call that the "force continuum.”    Sometimes you need to take it one step at a time, and sometimes you need to skip a step or two.  All we do is respond to the threat level displayed by the aggressors.  Several times as a cop, I’d be holding someone at gun-point and they’d ask sarcastically, “What are you going to do, man, shoot me?” 

My response was, and remains; “That’s up to you.”   At that point you could hear the gears turning, and they’d give it up.  Sort of like a verbal red dot.  

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Me/police.png)




That was my point 20-30 in a mob, by myself, with one gun! Use what I have to to get out while calling back up. Its MY life not Internal Affairs or a prosecutors!
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: gunman1911 on June 05, 2008, 11:00:50 PM
If you see that type of situation coming up turn around and get the hell out and call 911 do not wait for it to hit the proverbally fan. Remember your eyes are to be wide open and your spidey senses on. Us ex, retired, and still serving know when we are about to get in over our heads and call for back up.
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: Dougdubya on June 06, 2008, 01:21:36 PM
Hit the gas, and hose off the gore off your fender when you get home.  Car trumps firearm every time.

Barring that, I'm still waiting for the Canadian government to get back to me about installing adamantium, retractable claws in my forearms.  When a half dozen people fall down eviscerated from two arm sweeps...

*sigh*  Nerdism... not just a state of mind, but a disease.
Title: Re: When Mobs Attack
Post by: Ulmus on June 07, 2008, 05:11:03 PM
How do you get on that list and what forms do you need to fill out?