The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: mx451 on June 07, 2008, 11:34:09 PM
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I am thinking about buying a new wheelgun. It will be used mostly for target shooting and occasional trail carry. What I really care about is accuracy. Have any of you came across any revolvers that had outstanding accuracy out of the box? I also would like to not include high end guns. Im thinking more of an everyman's gun. The calibers I would consider are .357, .44mag, and .45LC. Single or double action is ok. So far Ive looked at Blackhawks and Smith 329. Any more ideas? Or perhaps guns that you cant live without? Thanks in advance.
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Taurus,
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(http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/170237_large.jpg)
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=27904&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15714&isFirearm=Y
627 v comp... with out a doubt the best revolver I have ever shot. or just the standarad 627 is great too.
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S&W 586 and 686 4" have always been accurate for me and not too bad to carry.
Richard
They used to make a 3-31/2" also.
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Ruger Redhawk, 44mag, 4 inch barrel. I just love this gun.
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I have three wheel guns that would fall into the category for excellent accuracy.
S&W M625-2 “Model of 1988” / 5” - 45ACP
S&W M629 (no dash) / 4” - 44mag
S&W M629-3DX / 6½” - 44mag (in a shoulder rig, not bad to carry)
Out of the box, all three guns were very accurate. However, I have at one time or another sent all three to be tuned or “fixed”. The M625 was tuned by Andy Cannon and the 4” M629 was tuned and ported by Mag-Na-Port. This M629 is the smoothest and slickest action I have ever felt on any revolver. Downside is that with the 4” ported barrel it has a painful report. The M629DX is possibly the most accurate of any handgun I have ever owned or fired. Out of a rest it is capable of putting six shots inside a quarter at 25 yards. It’s also been back to S&W twice for locking up on me. Having put a couple hundred rounds through it since the last time, I think they got it right and would have no issue carrying it in the field.
My recommendations and 2¢ …
S&W M686 – Round butt, 7 shot 357mag with a 3” barrel
S&W M629 – with at least a 4” barrel. The report of a magnum load out of the 4” tube is bad enough and anything shorter will require hearing protection on the trail.
Ruger Super Redhawk or Super Blawkhawk – Solid guns and usually very accurate.
Another recommendation would be a 4” S&W M610. It’s chambered for 10mm which is a great performing round BUT it can also shoot 40S&W. If you already have a 40S&W semi auto, it would be a good second gun, same caliber to get.
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If you can afford the bling factor, the S&W 460 covers all needs. 8) Angry raccoon to charging bear, won't matter. Plus it will shoot the .45 LC, .454 Casull and the .460 round without changing a thing. The .45 LC Silver-Tip HP's, are very accurate.
Also agree the Model 625 4" inch barrel, would also be a nice choice and not too big in price or carry.
I like the .45 LC as well, Ruger makes several great ones.
Did you want to hunt? Or just have "peace of mind" in your wheelgun?
If its the latter, and recoil from a .44 is not what your after, the tried and true .357 Magnum is always a good choice.
I wouldn't go smaller than that.
Good Luck
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If you want the best of the best go with the S&W Model 329:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11601&langId=-1&productId=14774&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=16305
(http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163414_large.jpg)
or the Model 629:
(http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163603_large.jpg)
Both are in 44 mag.
If you are on more of a budget, you can't go wrong with a Taurus or Ruger.
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I've carried .357,.44MAG, and .45LC for trail guns, and I've taken deer and wild hog with all. I prefer a wheel gun on the trail, because of .... ::), well, just because.
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I've carried .357,.44MAG, and .45LC for trail guns, and I've taken deer and wild hog with all. I prefer a wheel gun on the trail, because of .... ::), well, just because.
Yes, we understand. ;D When you say "Hunting pistol" .45 ACP and 9MM are not the calibers that come to mind ;D
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i would say the ruger gd100 in 357 mag or the ruger sp101 in 357, both are excelent guns as far as accuracy are concerned and both handle really well, the sp is a 5 round while the gd is 6 round , i just got my borther a gd100 in 357 for his graduation in 4" barrel. the sp is more of a carry gun while the gd is more of a target gun
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....you know...I do already have a .41 mag and I have dies for .357 for maybe I should look at that caliber. .357 is cheaper than .44 or .45lc to load and buy off the shelf. But there is something about the larger calibers that seems to draw my attention...The .41 is a Redhawk so Im familiar with Ruger. Though Im told the trigger pull is better on the GP 100s, is that true?
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Well, I think all of these have been mentioned already, but Ruger GP100 or Blackhawk in caliber of your choice sounds like just what you want.
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S&W 686, .357Mag. I'd go with 6" barrel as a compromise between target and trail.
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The gun in my battery that would most perfectly fit your needs is my S&W .44 Special Mountain Gun 4-inch. Of course, that gun was never made by S&W...mine is a one-off created by master pistolsmith Hamilton Bownen from a .357 frame, a 696 .44 Special cylinder and a rebored .357 Mountain Gun barrel. PERFECT trail gun! Super accurate! Takes hot .44 Special loads with ease! Sorry!
The 329 works great with .44 Special loads and 240-gr and lighter .44 Magnum loads...mine had the lock seize on a 255-gr Buffalo Bore Keith load. It's a darned easy gun to carry, too. The 3-inch blue M-24 (.44 Special) and M-29 (.44 Magnum) are sweet, as is the 629 "Emergency Survival Kit" .44 Magnum 3-inch.
I come down on the side of the .44s for versatility.
Michael B
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I think S&W made some L frame 44 spls (5 shot) for something a bit more potent than the .357.
Richard
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My mother gave me a 4" barrel S&W Combat Magnum (aka M19 later) when I graduated. I carried it daily in Vietnam and later when I went out for a walk in the woods or hunting. It is a .357 but you want to shoot .38s for practice and carry .357 for business. I am very partial to this revolver for the use you mention. I have found it to be accurate, reliable and portable with .38 and .357 loads. I have other revolvers -- but this is the one that usually gets the call.
It is a good night stand revolver as well, but I use a SIG for that now.
Back in the day when I got the Combat Magnum we did not know you were supposed to use .38s for practice. So, I went to the PX and bought a bunch of boxes of .357 and practiced with that for a long time with no problems. I did have some access to military .38s for the old 3 gun (.22, .38 and .45) target shooting as well now that I think of it. I reload the .357 cases for .38 power level target loads. When the .357 cases split at the mouth, I just trim them back to .38 length and reload away again. ;)
The M19 is no longer in the S&W catalog -- that's too bad. But if you see a used one in good condition, I'd snap it up if I were you. :)
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The gun in my battery that would most perfectly fit your needs is my S&W .44 Special Mountain Gun 4-inch. Of course, that gun was never made by S&W...mine is a one-off created by master pistolsmith Hamilton Bownen from a .357 frame, a 696 .44 Special cylinder and a rebored .357 Mountain Gun barrel. PERFECT trail gun! Super accurate! Takes hot .44 Special loads with ease! Sorry!
The 329 works great with .44 Special loads and 240-gr and lighter .44 Magnum loads...mine had the lock seize on a 255-gr Buffalo Bore Keith load. It's a darned easy gun to carry, too. The 3-inch blue M-24 (.44 Special) and M-29 (.44 Magnum) are sweet, as is the 629 "Emergency Survival Kit" .44 Magnum 3-inch.
I come down on the side of the .44s for versatility.
Michael B
Taurus used to make a 3 in. barreled 44Spl. that would have been a perfect trail gun.
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I am still trying to decide what I want. I have decided that I want a 4" or shorter barrel. I have my eye on the S&W 686 and 620 .357s. Both are 7 shots which I never thought I would want....they are called "6" guns after all. One more round is one more round though. The smiths are attractive guns and the trigger pulls are sweet. One thing about the GP100s is that they are rock solid and alot cheaper so its hard to rule them out too. I was thinking 4" or shorter so I could occasionally carry the smoke wagon in leu of my Glock 26 or commander .45 if the mood strikes. Also Im still thinking .357 because I have dies and all of the components. Although I guess I wouldnt be the first to carry a .44 for CCW (occasionally to mix it up) if thats the way I go. Its times like this I wish we had a range here that rented guns to try out.
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MB has a great idea, the mountain gun in .44 mag is my pick and on my list . Shoots specials , as good and managible as a .357 although the sweetest wheel gun I ever had was a GP 100 . Its a toss in my book.
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MB has a great idea, the mountain gun in .44 mag is my pick and on my list . Shoots specials , as good and managible as a .357 although the sweetest wheel gun I ever had was a GP 100 . Its a toss in my book.
Does smith still make a mountian gun? Whats the barrel length? Also, what things did you like about the Ruger?
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After putting rubber grips on it and getting rid of those awful wooden ones it fit well in the hand. The most accurate wheel gun I ever fired. Very mild recoil, it was a 6in I could hit anything I could see. no kidding . And as far as I know Smith still sells the "mountain Gun" in .44 mag a short barrell , http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=27843&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y
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Does smith still make a mountian gun? Whats the barrel length? Also, what things did you like about the Ruger?
Don't know about the Smith, but the Ruger it's size, accurracy, and balance.
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The wheelgun is on hold for now. With the election comming up I decided to pick up an AR-15 before they become the dreaded death merchant rifle again. Thank you all for your input. When I scrounge up enough cash I will get a Blackhawk in .45, a Smith .44 329PD, and a 3" Smith 7 shot stainless.
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The best wheel gun I ever owned was a Gp 100 stainless after I changed those awfull grips. 4in .357 could hit milk jugs off hand at 50 yards... sweet sweet revolver. still kicking my self for trading it.
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This has gotten Taurus Judge written all over it.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h270/Sanjuancb/judge.jpg)
Nothing matches a shotgun for trail carry and if you purchase the 3" chambered Judge you are well equipped for harvesting small game and birds. 11/16 oz of #6's is perfect for squirrel, rabbit, etc. In addition, if you will order Buffalo Bore ammo for the .45 LC, you can slay anything that walks on this earth. They have a loading of a 325 gr. LBT at 1325 FPS. One of my best friends purchased one several weeks ago and I shot it for a while. I love the fiber-optic sights on it and single-action trigger pull is not bad at all. The double-action is a little heavy, but not horrible. The recoil from standard .45 LC and 410 shotshells is not bad either. I can't think of a better trail gun! They were getting $475 for the stainless version at the last gunshow I went to.
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I would go with a S&W 19 4" or 6". They are not too heavy, excellent choice in holsters and comfortable to pack around. Blue or stainless will do great. A set of Pachmyr grips would finish it off great. Very accurate.
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So many choices,.. so little time,...
S&W 686, 3 or 4" .357. or Model 460V, fires 45LC, 454 Casull, or the .460. slightly bigger at 5".
Or the Model 329 .44, although the 2.5" barrel is stout by any standard.
Ruger wheel's are always a winner. SP's, new Redhawk in .45LC, SA, would go to the Vaquero.
And, as always, there's a 1911,.. Sorry,... wrong thread. ;D
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I've considered a wheel gun off and on myself, and the only ones I've really considered seriously are the S&W 686 SSR and the S&W Model 60 Pro. The SSR is a 4" variation on the L Frame and the Model 60 Pro is a 3" J frame. Either will work as all around accurate revovlers with self-defense trail duty and target work.
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The most accurate centerfire caliber is probably the .38 Special. If you get a .357 Magnum the accuracy of .38 ammo in it will still be pretty good. You can keep it loaded with magnums when you aren't target shooting.
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The most accurate centerfire caliber is probably the .38 Special.
Just how did you come up with this "factoid"? It doesn't stand up to even mild examination.
For a trail gun I hang a 629 on my belt or a Mod. 19 if I want lighter weight.
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Just how did you come up with this "factoid"? It doesn't stand up to even mild examination.
For a trail gun I hang a 629 on my belt or a Mod. 19 if I want lighter weight.
Haven't heard that one in a long, long, time, but it used to be considered gospel truth. Why, I don't remember, but 40-45 years ago, that was the "truth". Along with the "fact" that a .45 ACP had too much recoil for most shooters to handle, and a .357 could kill anything that walked (well it could, and to some extent did, but you wouldn't find me shooting at anything "nasty" with one)
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Most accurate pistol for trail carry? Get a an Encore with a Bulberry Barrel in 6mm BR... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Kmitch200, I'll have to take you task on that one, The .38 special stands up to more than mild or harsh examination, it is inherently accurate, tuneable to exceptional accuracy. Now the original poster said centerfire cartridge, that would not be true, if you include rifles or bottle neck cases. But as a pistol round it is exceptional in the accuracy department. I guarantee you will spend a thousand or more bucks to beat a 6" model 14 S&W, with factory ammo and someone who nows how to shoot at 50 yards.
I have a 2x scoped Model 29, 5" gun that with 300 grain Hornaday xtp's, will shoot target accuracy, 2.5" at 50 yards and 4-5' at one hundred yards, took a lot of developement to get there. .38 spl Anemic? Yes, but not bad with modern loads, and the accuracy is always there with a quality pistol, I'm not a Colt revolver fan, but the Diamond back will shoot this well, the Python too.
I have shot more than 130,000 rounds of .38 special, from standard and light loads to loads that make IPSC major, with 158 grain bullets, shot in a .357 chamber of course. I shoot PPC, master rating, NRA action shooting, master rating, Hunters Pistol, large bore, AAA rating, ICORE expert rating. Shot revolvers in .38 spl in all of the them.
There are many accurate calibers, but I would put the 38 special above the rest for out of the box, with out of the box ammo.
Best gun for the trail? It rates, but I personally like more power, a .357 mag is very useful, especially with a pocket full of 148 grain, full 38 spl wadcutters for small game, quiet, accurate and cuttiing a full .357 hole.
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If you want the best of the best go with the S&W Model 329:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11601&langId=-1&productId=14774&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=16305
(http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163414_large.jpg)
or the Model 629:
(http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163603_large.jpg)
Both are in 44 mag.
If you are on more of a budget, you can't go wrong with a Taurus or Ruger.
I stand by my original post.
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Stand you must, but be accurate,, more than likely not, the pistols you defend are hard to shoot, and harder to group,, trailworthy perhaps so.
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Agree with you M25Operator, the .38 Special is probably the most accurate pistol round. With the S&W 14 and an Aristocrat rib and sights, great combination. With the Aristocrat rear sight set at 50 yds and a neck hold, extremely accurate. I shot PPC but doubt that I have fired that many rounds.
44 Mag is a great caliber for field carry but not too many people can shoot it well nor will they take the time to learn to shoot it well. I like the .44 Mag and have carried it but prefer the Model 19 in either 4 or 6" barrel and a high rise pancake holster.
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Okay, I'm confused. I can see that a .38 is an easier gun to shoot accurately than a heavier caliber, but I don't understand the claim that the caliber itself is more accurate. If you took to "identical" guns one in .38 and the other in another caliber, shot them from a machine rest, the .38 would produce tighter groups? What would account for that?
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Since the subject is WHEELGUNS, not rifles and pistols, I didn't think it was neccesary to specify that I was talking about revolver cartridges. Bottle-neck cartridges in a rifle are so obviously different from wheelguns that I made the mistake of thinking we were all on the same page. And only I said centerfire because .22 Long Rifle is probably the most accurate caliber for short range target shooting. Some calibers are inherrently more accurate than others and the .38 Special has several decades of target shooting and load development under it's belt. By now a lot of people know what it's capable of, but maybe all the experts are wrong about it and the .22. I also made the mistake of assuming that we're talking about shooting factory ammo and not spending $2,000 on custom gunsmithing. My bad. .38 Specials with wadcutters are accurate right out of the box like the original poster was asking about.
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Just how did you come up with this "factoid"? It doesn't stand up to even mild examination.
For a trail gun I hang a 629 on my belt or a Mod. 19 if I want lighter weight.
I came up with that "factoid" by listening to people like m25operator who shoot matches with it. It's been winning for a century.
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According to this months Shooting Times during it's development the .357 Mag was used to take "nearly every game animal in America."
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Staying with a wheel gun. Probably one large contributing factor on accuracy of .38 could be that like JumboFrank said, the .38 has had a lot of load development behind it. That is a always a big factor in accurate loads.
As far as comparison with machine rest, I don't know of anyone doing the comparison of one gun or model and .38 or .357. What is true for rifle or pistol bullets, velocities and different bullet weights make a difference. Action, barrels and a lot of other things also influence accuracy. A given bullet, say .357, 158 gr travelling at 800 fps may or may give the same results as one travelling at 1250 fps. Also, shooting same type bullet from a pistol chambered for .38 and one chambered for .357 Mag may or may not have the same results. Why, because the .38 pistol will have less free travel from case to barrel than from a .357 pistol.