The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Marshal Halloway on June 10, 2008, 11:03:47 PM
-
PROVO, Utah — For years, Kevin Jensen carried a pistol everywhere he went, tucked in a shoulder holster beneath his clothes.
The Seattle Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004464820_opencarry08.html
-
Interesting, I kind of like the idea. But it does take away an element of surprise and gives a person the chance to possibly get the weapon away from you and turn you into a suspect. Not likely, but more likely than having it concealed where they don't even know you are carrying.
Ron
-
If the gun was ready to go, I would wonder if anyone would mess with someone visibly armed, but this idea of being two steps away from firing is a bit strange. I wonder how that's done with a revolver?
I live in New York, here we have a permit to carry a weapon concealed. not a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
By rights, I'm not even supposed to carry openly on our land, in the middle of a woods, a quarter of a mile from anyone, unless I'm hunting, but then, when we're there, we go by our own rules.
-
might want to read this article and what can happen when exposed
Exposure Equals Big Trouble
Accidentally exposing your concealed handgun can leave you wishing for less excitement in your life.
By Don Myers
From Concealed Carry Magazine, July 2006
Accidentally exposing your concealed handgun can leave you wishing for less excitement in your life.
Suppose you had just come from Amarillo, Texas and were thirsty from the six hour drive to Fort Worth. So you stop at a convenience store in one of the many little, suburban towns. As you exit your car, you notice that your coat has ridden up, exposing the handle of your handgun that is in an inside-the-waistband holster. You quickly cover it and go in and purchase a soft drink and a pack of gum.
Shortly after resuming your trip, you notice a police car behind you with flashing lights. You pull over, but the police officer just sits in his squad car until another police car arrives. Then both police officers exit and yell for you to get out of your car. As you exit, you see that both of them have their pistols drawn and pointed at you as they scream for you to put your hands behind your head and get down on your knees.
You comply, as they continue screaming to lie face down on the pavement. You tell them that you need to use your hands to brace yourself as you lie down, but they scream even louder to lie face down. Afraid that you are going to hurt yourself by smashing your face on the pavement, you tell them twice more that you need to use your hands to break your fall. Each plea to use your hands puts the cops in a greater rage, screaming to lie face down.
Finally, you manage to get your face on the pavement, where you are immediately handcuffed and asked, "Do you have a concealed handgun license?"
You answer, "Yes."
At this point, under Texas penal code section 42.01, the incident should have been over if the officers had asked if you had intentionally displayed your weapon. Of course, you would have said that it was accidentally displayed for only a few seconds, but instead of your being released, you are hauled off to jail and charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. Even though the district attorney refuses to prosecute and the Texas Department of Public Safety refuses to honor the city's request to have your CHL revoked, your nightmare is not over. The police drop the original charges, but give you a new charge of a moving violation, even though you were outside your car when this mythical violation occurred. A year later, at the court house just before you are to go before the judge, you take a settlement by signing a release of liability, saying you will not sue the city if they drop the charge of the moving violation.
Even though the district attorney refuses to prosecute and the Texas Department of Public Safety refuses to honor the city's request to have your CHL revoked, your nightmare is not over. The police drop the original charges, but give you a new charge of a moving violation, even though you were outside your car when this mythical violation occurred. A year later, at the court house just before you are to go before the judge, you take a settlement by signing a release of liability, saying you will not sue the city if they drop the charge of the moving violation.
You say that this nightmare is too preposterous to be true. You are wrong. It actually happened to Mark [last name withheld at his request]. This injustice was written about by Mark's attorney in the Texas State Rifle Association's Sportsman magazine. I called Mark to confirm this unbelievable miscarriage of justice. I found him to be a gentle and unassuming young man, which added to my anger at how he was treated. Mark was very nervous talking about this traumatizing event for fear of angering the authorities. It goes without saying that we, who carry concealed handguns, open ourselves to trouble by accidentally displaying our weapons.
I am an aviation instructor by profession. The aviation business spends considerable time learning from the misfortunes of others, with the purpose of increasing our judgment to prevent making the same disastrous mistakes. We as citizens who carry concealed handguns are vulnerable to making costly errors too. I am going to relate a few actual stories of how handguns were innocently made visible, with the hope that we can learn, and as a minimum, avoid contributing to some attorney's yacht payments or worse, going to jail.
Some methods of carry are more susceptible to being seen accidentally than others. A holster worn on the hip provides the fastest presentation of the weapon when drawing for a deadly force encounter. However, it is the most easily exposed when your coat or vest is blown open or dragged open as you brush up against something.
I was attending a funeral on a cold and very windy day. I carried a .40 caliber Glock on my hip, covered by my suit. I had gained weight and could not button the coat with the added bulk of the pistol. However, I would not buy a new suit because I was determined to lose the weight. Departing from my car, I began putting on my overcoat as I walked toward the grave site, while being buffeted by the strong and gusty north wind. After getting my arms into the sleeves of the overcoat, I stretched out my arms to pull the coat over my shoulders. While I was in the crucifix position, the wind suddenly burst open both sides of my suit coat, completely revealing my entire torso with its attached weapon. My heart had a runaway, as if I had revealed my private parts to Sarah Brady. Fortunately, everyone was walking in the same direction, so, those in front of me had their backs to me, while those mourners behind me could not see the exposed pistol because of my billowing overcoat. I was lucky to receive a free lesson in concealment management without the unpleasant consequences.
Jerry Worley had a similar experience. However, his accidentally revealed pistol was seen by several people. While filling his gas tank, Jerry was wearing a denim jacket covering the Makarov on his hip. A strong, gusty wind hit him, unexpectedly sending his jacket fluttering like a flag over a nudist camp where nobody looks at the flag, but everyone looks at what is totally exposed beneath it. His weapon drew the attention of at least three other people. As Jerry wildly grabbed his jacket, like Marilyn Monroe's famous picture of her unsuccessfully holding down her wind blown skirt, his viewers made no reaction other than to quickly turn their eyes away, even though they clearly saw Jerry's means of protection. Apparently, they assumed that he was a member of law enforcement or a person whom they had better leave alone.
Wearing a hip holster requires great care when reaching for something, especially while reaching up to take something off of a top shelf. I attend a church where we often raise our hands while singing worship songs. I usually only raise my left hand for fear of revealing what is on my right hip. Speaking of church, sometimes folks give me a hug. The one time that I know that someone must have felt my pistol, I suspect that they thought it was a cell phone. I usually avoid their having a chance to feel it by keeping my elbow pressed against the pistol.
One friend related what some might think is a really dumb way to expose one's concealed handgun. Actually, for those who carry all the time, it is easy to forget that you have a pistol strapped to your side. My friend was wearing a leather jacket covering his 9mm as he entered a bar. That was his first no-no because in Texas, you cannot legally carry in a bar as a customer. However, as I said, he forgot that he was armed. Sitting down on a bar stool, he took off his leather jacket, neatly folded it, and laid it on a nearby chair. The man sitting next to him asked one of the stupidest questions ever, "Is that a gun?"
Embarrassed, Jerry quickly put his jacket back on and said, "I'll be right back!" He went out to his car, put the handgun in the trunk, and returned without further problems. During my concealed handgun licensing classes, I recommend that in a case such as Jerry's or any time you see that your handgun has been discovered, you should calmly leave the establishment to reduce your chance of having to explain why you are armed.
One of the ways that your hip carried pistol can result in exposure is having to go to the restroom to sit on the commode. When you take your coat off, you are exposed to the ubiquitous spaces between the door and the wall. Leaving your pistol in the holster while your pants are on the floor further exposes you to detection from the stall next to you. In this case, I hang the coat on the hook and put my pistol in the coat. It is best to use the stall that has a wall on one side to reduce your chances of being discovered by curious eyes. (Yes, I know the image that is conjured up in some people's minds. Remember, this is a family magazine.)
Last year, an air marshal left her pistol on a shelf in the restroom of Cleveland's Hopkins airport. I know that the Monday morning quarterbacks don't understand how that could happen. As I said about the bar situation above, your carry weapon becomes such a part of you, that after you have carried for a few years, you often don't think about it, even though you may unconsciously hold your elbow close on windy days to hold your jacket in place. Even if you happen to be unarmed, you still habitually do the little things that keep a gun concealed. I can see how she left it there if her mind were on something else. Being sympathetic with her plight is one thing, but sympathy does not prevent consequences. Unlike my friend's goof in the bar, this lady got in serious trouble after a passenger reported finding the pistol to authorities.
The inside-the-waistband holster is probably a better choice for concealment if you are wearing it on your hip, since a glimpse of it only reveals a handle, which could easily be thought to be a cell phone. The IWB carry may be better for concealment, but it's no guarantee of not being detected. Mark, who I talked about above, was carrying his gun IWB when he was subsequently thrown in jail.
I shoot I.D.P.A. matches with Dusty, who asked that I not use his last name. Dusty related a similar experience with his IWB carry. Dusty had been in Kohl's Department store for at least thirty minutes when he noticed that his Hawaiian shirt was stuck between his pistol and his body, completely exposing the handle. He must have had his coat get in that position while he was in the car, yet no one had given any indication that they saw it in the crowded store.
Dusty related another time where the "print" of his gun was noticed. He had his Para Ordinance .45 under a T-shirt with an open, button-down shirt giving further concealment. The wind blew his shirt open, exposing the bulge of the thick, twelve-shot .45. A man asked what he had under his shirt. Dusty replied, "It's an adrenalin pump." That answer satisfied the onlooker and made me jealous that I can't think that fast.
Although the sample of folks who related stories of accidental exposure is too small to be scientific, I had more examples of coats or shirt's riding over an IWB holster than those who carried on the hip. That may not mean anything since I don't know what percentage of those whom I asked carried in either manner, but it is significant that the IWB carry is no guarantee of not being seen.
Of all those interviewed, I was surprised at how difficult it was to find someone who had accidentally exposed their weapon. Probably 90% of the folks never had a problem and a couple were indignant that I thought they were stupid enough to do something so incompetent. I didn't confess my sins to those Pharisees.
Another I.D.P.A. shooter, Steve Moses, related a horror story about his friend, Ed [not his real name] who was on a date at Denny's. (I guess it was a cheap date.) Ed was carrying his Les Baer .45 in a Yaqui Slide holster, which has no retention strap, and the design exposes most of the barrel. Of course, this rig was covered by a coat. As Ed sat down, the barrel of his pistol hit the arm rest of his chair, popping the gun out of its holster, sending the .45 clattering to the floor. This scene is the stuff of nightmares. The only thing that could have made it worse would have been for Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton to have been dining there and have the wayward pistol come to rest at their feet. But Ed has to be the luckiest guy in the world, because in spite of the noise of the 1911's hitting the floor, no one noticed except his date who already knew that he was packing. The ankle carry also has its problems with accidental exposure. D.E.A. agents train with my company in flight simulators.
One day during a break, several people were gathered in the break room telling stories. The facility director at the time was rabidly anti-gun. (His replacement has a CHL. What a pleasant change!) During the conversation, the D.E.A. agent crossed his legs and in doing so, exposed a Colt Diamondback in an ankle holster. The Diamondback is rather large for ankle carry, to say the least, so accidentally exposing it becomes rather obvious. The agent quickly pulled his pant leg over the pistol, but not before the facility director and virtually everyone else in the room saw it. The director turned pale, began trembling and left the room. If that agent had been a licensed civilian, trouble would have followed, since the director hated guns so much. By the way, the rest of the crowd enjoyed the director's reaction, since all of them were pro-Second Amendment pilots.
You would think that a "photographer's vest," designed explicitly for concealed carry, with an inside breast pocket to carry a small pistol, would be a secure way to keep from being detected. However, John Mannewitz unintentionally disproved that theory. John was carrying his wife's Lady Smith .38 inside his photographer's vest. John had just finished a meal with his wife after enjoying an evening on the scenic River Walk in San Antonio, then as John leaned forward to scoot his chair back, the weight of the little .38 caused his vest to hang down, clearly revealing his little revolver. John noticed that at the table next to them there was a petite, elderly, gray-haired lady with her raised coffee cup frozen in mid-air, her mouth open in wide-eyed shock, staring back at him. "We were leaving anyway; we just moved a little faster than we had planned," John told me as I pictured the wild story the little old lady was going to be telling her friends.
Another incident worthy of mentioning was related to me by my friend Andy Colglazier. On this particular occasion, he was carrying a Glock 23 on his hip, covered by a vest. Andy was standing in line at Wal-Mart, when a short woman, whom Andy estimated would weigh more than four hundred and fifty pounds, decided to exit through the aisle where Andy was about to pay for his purchases.
Andy recalled, "She may not have been wider than the aisle, but she was definitely wider than the aisle space with me in it. I didn't see her coming. She waddled up behind me, turned her back to me, and started pushing through with her rear-end right up against me. I was on the side of the aisle with my right side towards her."
While the determined woman was unsuccessfully trying to disprove the principle of physics that two pieces of matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time, Andy felt the cheeks of her derriere clamp down on the handle of his Glock and begin pulling on it. Resisting the impulse to put his hand where no man had gone before by grabbing his pistol, Andy explained, "I had no choice but to move with her. If I had stood my ground, she would have taken the weapon with her, right out of my holster. I kind of rolled along with her until she finally got to the end of the counter, where I popped free like a cork from a champagne bottle. She rippled out the door and never even looked back. "
Maybe the only lesson that we can glean from this incident is that there is no end to the ways that we armed citizens can accidentally get in trouble with the general public, but we can learn from these examples to reduce our chances of becoming victims of our own carelessness. We need to be armed all of the time, but with added vigilance, we can protect ourselves and our loved ones while remaining undetected.
Don Myers is a professional pilot, a Vietnam era army captain, an author, a certified concealed handgun license instructor for the state of Texas, and most importantly of all, a proud grandfather.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Friend,
I hope you enjoyed this complimentary article from the United States Concealed Carry Association.
Take care and stay safe,
Tim Schmidt
Founder, US Concealed Carry
Publisher, Concealed Carry Magazine
Publisher, USCCA Inner Circle
P.S. - I have to say- I'm the kind of guy who sees opportunity everywhere. That's why I was so surprised when I first began contemplating carrying concealed that there was no Information Source for every day people passionate about self defense.
If you look at every niche out there, there's people working together to teach people about it. And yeah, there was a few websites and publications out there for self-defense, but they all seemed to be directed towards Ex-Navy SEALs! That's just not me!
THAT is why I started 'Concealed Carry Magazine' and the USCCA. For normal people like you and I.
"I love to read and learn about people just like me. There is nothing quite like the USCCA. It is a reliable, informative & comprehensive go-to resource."
-
In NH Open Carry is unregulated, Therefore if your pistol prints, or gets exposed, no big deal.
-
The state of NC has done a great job of screwing up the open carry law. Let alone the CCW statute.
Regarding open carry, it is legal except gov't property or wherever there is a sign posted, and ANY business can post a sign.
Moreover, there is the "brandishing to the terrorism of the public", this is the most dangerous, due to much more interpretation by a witness, or LEO.
Some "little ol' lady (or man)" sees my shooting partner whose a big guy, with his Ruger Super Blackhawk on the hip, pumping gas in his big truck, calls 911 and he can possibly get charged with this crime, gun seized.,...etc,...
Just like the article said above, even if the charges are dropped, and he;s not prosecuted, what a waste of time and effort.
-
After first seeing this article, I did some research and found that you can open carry in my home state of Tennessee. I have considered doing this, since carrying concealed is sometimes uncomfortable in the 100+ degree summers.
Does anyone else open-carry?
-
Can't in FL. :(
-
While it sounds great, I don't buy quite all of it.
"He and his wife, Clachelle, drop off their 5-year-old daughter at elementary school with pistols dangling from their hip holsters and never have received a complaint or a wary look."
Sorry, but this is Fed law. Title 18, USC, Sec 922 (q) school zones. Non-cops are gonna get swarmed.
Mine is just fine out of sight. Tactical advantage, as I am a frail old man.
Mac.
-
Many years ago when I was a MUCH younger man I was hired as the Chief of a 2-officer police department in a small town in Iowa that shall remain nameless. On my first day in town I went to the local bank to open an account. I was dressed in jeans and a pullover shirt under a denim jacket. Under my left armpit was a 4-inch S&W Model 66 in a shoulder holster. As I reached into the inside pocket of the denim jacket for my wallet, the bank teller apparently spotted my "little friend" and set off the silent alarm. At that point my pager went off informing me of a silent alarm at the local bank. I tried to be as nonchalant as possible, looking around at my fellow bank customers, trying to determine which one of them was the bad guy, all the while moving my right hand slowly but steadily toward the grip of my weapon. The instant before my hand touched the wood grips, the teller began to scream. It was then that the light bulb went on in my head, and I realized that I was the one about whom she had set off the alarm.
Long story short, it's a helluva lot funnier story now than it was on that particular day!!
-
Yeah, but it is FUNNY now! ;D
-
Here in Ravenna (Northeastern Ohio near Akron) a local resident driving a car with out of state plates accidently flashed and was reported. He was stopped and surrounded by officers from 3 departments. He and his passangers were forced to lay on the ground in wet slushy snow before the situation was resolved. No charges filed but a bad situation especially if no one knows who is in charge and conflicting instructions are given. That is why I am very careful!!!!!!
Richard
-
In thinking more about this topic today, it seems like carrying a gun exposed and chamber empty does nothing for self defense, more like showing off or trying to look important, or like an LEO.
Even if NYS allowed open carry, I don't think I would do it, mostly because I don't like attracting attention, and that really would attract attention.
The idea makes me uncomfortable.
-
might want to read this article and what can happen when exposed
Exposure Equals Big Trouble
Accidentally exposing your concealed handgun can leave you wishing for less excitement in your life.
By Don Myers
From Concealed Carry Magazine, July 2006
Accidentally exposing your concealed handgun can leave you wishing for less excitement in your life.
People need to get used to the idea these incidents are not just about guns they are about EVERYTHING.
This government, Federal, State, and Local is about a half step away from completely feral.
My favorite tale of lunatic government from way back. In fact, I may try to track it down on the wayback machine and post on my blog.
EVERYTHING about this story is completely nuts. Everything.
Enjoy........................................
THE STRANGE CASE OF GIL MCGILLICUDDY
What is it with law enforcement and family pets? Ruby Ridge started when Ninja Clad Warrior Wannabes shot the family dog and initiated a firefight with Randy Weaver’s son. In Santa Clarita James Beck was worried the BATF would injure his dog. While this North Carolina case does not rise to the level of pathos of these other cases, it is oddly resonant of the mindset of modern law enforcement. The names have been changed to protect the guilty because God knows the dog has suffered enough.
After almost exactly one hundred days Gil McGillicuddy’s (not his real name) dog was returned to him.
The dog, Cuddles, (not her real name) was imprisoned for three months in the Cornucopia County Animal Shelter (not a real North Carolina County) at the direction of one Cornucopia County Deputy Sheriff Brassbadge (not his real name) as part of an aggressive animal abuse investigation.
McGillicuddy’s trip through Alice’s Looking Glass began at twilight on Saturday evening April 21st 2001 when he peered through the window of his mobile home and was surprised to see three uniformed Cornucopia County Sheriff Deputies standing in his front yard each of whom had arrived in a separate vehicle.
Gil, a house painter of modest means lived by himself with his dog in a rural area out toward the county line. He generally did not bother anyone and usually no one bothered him. So naturally he was congenial and cooperative when the Deputies arrived. Initially he figured they had mistaken his mobile home for the mobile home across the drainage ditch and down the road, an address that generated numerous nuisance 911 calls.
In fact, they were there to question him in response to an anonymous tip that a dog was yelping in pain as a result of a beating at his address.
Gil, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, allowed that he and dog had cavorted around in the front yard for a few minutes earlier in the evening prior to going inside the house. He also brought out the dog to demonstrate the cheerful demeanor and good health she enjoyed in his custody.
For whatever reason this was considered by Deputy Brassbadge to be tantamount to a confession of animal abuse and Gil was summarily handcuffed and thrown into the back of a police cruiser.
Cuddles, a beagle/border collie mix whose only crime in the presence of strangers was to attempt to stamp a clear set of muddy paw prints on every crisply starched shirt possible was thrown into a second police cruiser and the two partners in crime were whisked downtown for processing.
Convinced this was a terrible mistake that would be quickly corrected McGillicuddy patiently awaited his turn to speak to the processing Magistrate.
The Magistrate was moved to tears when he read the charge against McGillicuddy, possibly because of the official grammar.
Deputy Brassbadge used a North Carolina Uniform Citation ticket to charge McGillicuddy with his violation. The North Carolina Uniform Citation lists over a dozen possible traffic offenses and provides a blank category for an arresting officer to fill in with some other offense should circumstances warrant.
So the text of the actual charge presented to the court read as follows: “ The undersigned officer has probable cause to believe that on or about Saturday 2030 PM the 21th day of April 2001 in the named county the defendant did unlawfully and willfully operate a (motor) vehicle on a 14. did beat him dog by kicking him in the dog and around the head with his hand, and did pick up dog throw him out the front door this Abuse is in violation of GS”
McGillicuddy spent the rest of Saturday night in the Cornucopia County Jail and posted bail early Sunday morning.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while and Gil was now convinced it might be wise to locate evidence with which to defend himself in court.
It did not require much effort or trouble to locate material favorable to his case.
The Cornucopia Animal Shelter manager was a veteran of a number of horrible animal abuse cases and she was amazed to receive custody of Cuddles as part of an abuse investigation.
She wrote the following letter for McGillicuddy’s benefit in crisp clear longhand:
To Whom It May Concern: Cuddle’s condition when she arrived at the Cornucopia County Animal Shelter was excellent. She is well groomed, happy and healthy. She does not appear to have been abused or neglected. She is very energetic and a wonderful dog. Sincerely, (name) (phone)
In addition, using the resources of the modern Internet McGillicuddy quickly found the North Carolina General Statutes relating to animal abuse-an entire Chapter (19 A) with 5 Articles and some several hundred paragraphs which included Article 4 - Animal Cruelty Investigators.
Article 4 listed the requirements for animal abuse investigations very clearly and specifically. The Cornucopia County Sheriff did not meet a single listed condition in McGillicuddy’s case.
Among other requirements an Animal Cruelty Investigator is a completely separate listed position independent of any law enforcement organization with specific rigorous training requirements. Only an Animal Cruelty Investigator can initiate an abuse investigation and only upon a sworn complaint filed with the court BEFORE taking custody of an abused animal. Forcible entry investigations must be conducted only during daylight hours-and on and on and on.
Confident his case would be quickly resolved Gil now patiently awaited his court date in the first week of June. He even took pictures of his property from the road to demonstrate that the foliage would have made it impossible for anyone to witness any abuse even if they were trespassing.
He visited the incarcerated Cuddles as often as his schedule would allow him to make the trip across the county to the shelter; usually at least twice a week.
The appointed day arrived. Gil dressed in the suit he wore to weddings and funerals and assembled his defense papers into a neat new manila folder and made his way downtown to the Courthouse.
His turn in the crowded court docket finally came. The Judge harrumphed when he saw the case file and looked over his glasses at the young Assistant District Attorney and in turn looked at Officer Brassbadge and finally at Gil who appeared before the Court in his own defense. The three parties were instructed to approach and Gil listened in amazement as the DA and the Deputy Sheriff explained this case could only be prosecuted with the complaining witnesses present. The Judge looked at Gil and ordered the case continued. The new court date would be the first week of July.
Amazed he was not allowed to present his evidence or get the case dismissed Gil left with a heavy heart and the loss of one day’s pay from his job.
The July court appearance involved a different Judge and a different Assistant District Attorney. This Judge appeared sympathetic when Gil somewhat passionately argued that this was his second appearance before the court on a frivolous case and he would like a resolution to the situation.
The Judge agreed that if the witnesses did not appear at the third hearing the case would be automatically dismissed. Case continued. The next court date would be the first week of August. Gil was out another day’s pay.
On the appointed day in August the somewhat weary McGillicuddy appeared before yet another Judge with yet another Assistant District Attorney prosecuting his case. Deputy Sheriff Brassbadge appeared wearing civilian clothes. He had just been promoted to Plain Clothes duty in the Sheriff’s Department. The atmosphere of the court was almost jovial. There were no prosecution witnesses anywhere to be seen.
The Judge, a silver haired veteran of the Cornucopia County Courthouse struck a stern posture behind the bench.
“ An awful lot of red ink in this file folder Madame District Attorney.”
“Yes, your honor”
“ Are your witnesses present?”
“No, your honor”
“Officer Brassbadge were the subpoenas properly served?”
“As well as possible within the limits of time and available personnel your honor.”
“You realize I have no choice but to dismiss this case.”
“Yes your honor”
Gil was stunned. There would no opportunity to present his evidence and clear his name. Worse, he was now out three days pay and liable for the boarding fees for Cuddles with no clear resolution to his long ordeal.
“Your honor, I wish to enter my evidence into the record.”
“Sir, your case is dismissed and the matter is settled.”
A cheerful Officer Brassbadge presented McGillicuddy with the papers he would need to take custody of his dog. Gill drove across the county to the Animal Shelter and was allowed to donate $55.00 to the shelter in lieu of the $800.00 boarding fee he was technically indebted to pay.
Cuddles was pleased to receive a thorough bath, her first in a hundred days, and to run in her own backyard free of the confined cage standard to animal shelters everywhere.
Asked to sum up his ordeal Gil had this to say: “I’m sure as hell not opening the door the next time any Deputies show up in my front yard.” “They are going to have to drag me out kicking and screaming”
-
Open carry is a double edge sword. I carry open when I go to and from work . I conceal if I go into a crowded place. IMO it does make you the 1st target if people have bad intentions,. I exercise my rights in a way that keeps me safe, OBTW I carry 'appendix" and could never be mistaken for LEO.
-
I was "made" by a couple of cops packing-----my cell phone in a hip holster under my tee shirt.
-
Given the choice, I would still carry concealed. Too many people in todays society are not ready for open carry. There are too many misconceptions.
IMO it does make you the 1st target if people have bad intentions
Thats very true. If I were a bad guy going to go into a place and shoot it up, the first thing I would do is have a look around and then take out the guy with the gun first.
-
Perfectly legal to open carry in my state. A couple of restrictions for a city in the first class(Philly requires a LTCF). Most Local Police have a problem with it. But that's their problem. Open carry was common place 100 years ago and no one took offence. Those that carried concealed where considered to be shady or have criminal intent. In this world of political correctness we are to worried how a person feels or their conception of things and how your actions effect them. I personally do not care what others think if it's legal I will do it. Every once in a while some one has to step out of the so called box if I am that person so be it what gives others the idea that they have more rights than others based on how they feel. I have feelings every day and they are mine alone unless I wish to share them with others. Notice the wording of the last sentence I explicitly said share not force my opinion or will on another. There for giving them the right to make their own choice not my choice. That is what a free society is all about not restricting the rights of others based on feelings or fear of others.
Mike Mc
-
I had my 9mm in my outside belt holster and I forgot and jumped out of my truck.. went into our Quick Trip out on the highway..( which had a few people inside... " bought some stuff"..left and got in my truck.. forgot ice and went back in to tell them I was getting some ice and I noticed a lady ( from out of town..not a local) starring at me. I smiled and said something to her..and she was just staring at my waist.. and then I realized I had my gold and stainless 'boyfriend" with me.
I just smiled once more at here and left and wondered that the poor woman must have thought she was trapped in "Redneck America".. No one else thought a thing about it.. LOL
Love this small rural town.. :)
-
I had my 9mm in my outside belt holster and I forgot and jumped out of my truck.. went into our Quick Trip out on the highway..( which had a few people inside... " bought some stuff"..left and got in my truck.. forgot ice and went back in to tell them I was getting some ice and I noticed a lady ( from out of town..not a local) starring at me. I smiled and said something to her..and she was just staring at my waist.. and then I realized I had my gold and stainless 'boyfriend" with me.
I just smiled once more at here and left and wondered that the poor woman must have thought she was trapped in "Redneck America".. No one else thought a thing about it.. LOL
Love this small rural town.. :)
TOOOOOOOO easy! (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-019.gif) ;D
-
TOOOOOOOO easy! (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-019.gif) ;D
Haz old buddy, I'm glad you aren't one to take advantage of a situation.
BTW, where the heck do ya'll get all of those emoticoney thingies? Do they like report your bank account and social security numbers back to Nigeria with your mother's maiden name or or something?
-
Haz old buddy, I'm glad you aren't one to take advantage of a situation.
BTW, where the heck do ya'll get all of those emoticoney thingies? Do they like report your bank account and social security numbers back to Nigeria with your mother's maiden name or or something?
Here http://www.clicksmilies.com/
and here http://www.mazeguy.net/smilies.html
-
Haz...
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/playnice.gif)
I wonder if there is a virtual site where I could wash your mind out with soap. ::)
-
If I owned an outside the belt holster I would only open carry on saturday mornings, thats when the traitors have their "peace vigil" downtown. They piss me off, turn abouts fair play ;D Other wise I think most people LIKE surprises ;D
-
Haz...
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/playnice.gif)
I wonder if there is a virtual site where I could wash your mind out with soap. ::)
your going to need something alot stronger then soap... I would recomend a good power washing then degrease with carbon tetra cloride.( yeah, yeah its been illegal for about 35 years, but nothing works better)
-
Haz...
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/playnice.gif)
I wonder if there is a virtual site where I could wash your mind out with soap. ::)
Sugar,
That was me being nice! ;D
-
Here http://www.clicksmilies.com/
and here http://www.mazeguy.net/smilies.html
Haz, I think you just changed the look of posts from now on.
BTW, I didn't think you meant anything "off color" with your comment of Too easy, honest, I thought you were thinking about her gun, honest. SOME people take all of your comments wrong, I wonder what THEY were thinking!
-
Haz, I think you just changed the look of posts from now on.
BTW, I didn't think you meant anything "off color" with your comment of Too easy, honest, I thought you were thinking about her gun, honest. SOME people take all of your comments wrong, I wonder what THEY were thinking!
Well, I'm glad someone was smart enough to know that I would never knowingly post a double entendre. ::)
-
Staring is ok. Drooling starts to go over the line.
-
Staring is ok. Drooling starts to go over the line.
You're talking about staring at the gun......right?
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/engel/angel-smiley-008.gif)
-
I'm Outnumbered!~~~~
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/pullhair.gif)
-
I'm Outnumbered!~~~~
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/pullhair.gif)
Yes, but well loved! ;D
-
I'm Outnumbered!~~~~
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/pullhair.gif)
Yep!
Forum Male to Female Ratio: 35.7:1
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=stats
Exit Question: Who is the other female?
-
I'm Outnumbered!~~~~
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/pullhair.gif)
I don't believe it, not for a minute, it's some kind of trick. Some how I think we're in REALLY big trouble now
-
Yep!
Forum Male to Female Ratio: 35.7:1
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=stats
Exit Question: Who is the other female?
Well, Squibby has been here for a while (though she hasn't posted lately) and there are two new ladies Harleygirl and I forget the other name. They just signed up in the last couple of days. Wish squibby would post. Her avatar is serious eye candy! ;D
-
Well, Squibby has been here for a while (though she hasn't posted lately) and there are two new ladies Harleygirl and I forget the other name. They just signed up in the last couple of days. Wish squibby would post. Her avatar is serious eye candy! ;D
Wendytww is the other:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3432
Yes, very pretty:
(http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=216;type=avatar)
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=43
-
Wendytww is the other:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3432
Yes, very pretty:
(http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=216;type=avatar)
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=43
(http://www.mazeguy.net/expressive/wolfwhistle.gif)
-
And she is pretty on the inside too. I consider her a good friend.
Squbby is really busy right now. She is back into shooting some and is very very busy with her boyfriend.. ( who is a swell guy)
But I do hear from her and she is well and doing fine.
-
And she is pretty on the inside too. I consider her a good friend.
Squbby is really busy right now. She is back into shooting some and is very very busy with her boyfriend.. ( who is a swell guy)
But I do hear from her and she is well and doing fine.
Cool! Tell her we miss her and wish her and the lucky bas...UHHHH I mean her boy freind the best! ;D
-
Cool! Tell her we miss her and wish her and the lucky bas...UHHHH I mean her boy freind the best! ;D
Yeah, we do.
-
Yes, We haven't heard from her since Christmas, guess the pistol present worked (http://www.mazeguy.net/happy/applause.gif)
-
Open carry in Mich. only if your in the woods and have a hunting license.
-
When I lived in AZ, I used to see people open carry quite a bit. One time, I was at a biker friendly bar in Scottsdale having an ice-tea and admiring all the bikes. In rolls this beautiful, drop-dead gorgeous 5'5" blonde in tight jeans, a white tank top and with the complete "Scottsdale treatment" (perfect make-up & fake boobs) on her custom Harley Heritage Soft-Tail. On her belt is a custom 1911, cocked and locked.
Needless to say, riding my bike home gave 2nd gear a whole new meaning. :P
Because you can't carry in a bar, some bars had allowed people to "check" their guns. As well, there was a company that was going to make lock boxes for saddle bags so one could lock their handgun up on their bike before going into a bar. One problem ... check that ... one of the many problems I have with that is that bikes, guns and alcohol don't mix.
-
Open carry in Mich. only if your in the woods and have a hunting license.
How about on your own private property around your home?
-
Open carry in Mich. only if your in the woods and have a hunting license.
A friend of mine (who is also my local Chief of Police here in SW Michigan) sent me a FAQ list. Here is what was listed in regards to open carry in Michigan:
Open carry of firearms
Subject to MCL 750.234d, it is legal to carry a visible pistol in public.
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
History: Add. 1990, Act 321, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991;¾Am. 1992, Act 218, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992;¾Am. 1994, Act 158, Eff. Aug. 15, 1994.
Rendered
That being said...I think you will most likely receive some kind of grief if you open carry. I had asked my CLEO buddy in regards to what happens if my CCW is "exposed" when I'm in public (i.e. wind blows cover garment, or I bend over and it is exposed). His response was "no big deal".
-
I've asked two judges that I know here in Southwestern Michigan about open carry in Michigan. Both stated that as they read the law, open carry was lawful, but you would most likely get stopped for it and possible detained because the public and most LEOs believe it to be unlawful. Both advised not to do it and avoid problems. From what I understand open carry does not apply if in a vehicle as it is then considered concealed. You may carry in a vehicle with a Michigan Concealed Pistol License (CPL). The CPL does not give privledge to carry a knife, shotgun or rifle. In Michigan, rifles and shotguns that have folding, collapsable, or pistol grip stocks that meet federal law must be at least 30" if operational with the stock folded or collapsed or be registered as a handgun. My Ruger Mini-14 factory folder meets federal law for length, but not 30" for Michigan law. When I took it to the police station for the "safety inspection" (really registration) I inquired as to whether or not I could carry it as a concealed weapon as it was registered as a handgun. They couldn't or wouldn't give me an answer. My comment was that it is either a pistol or not and since it is required to be registered as one then it must be one and I should be allowed to carry as such. I won't carry it as one untill the law is settled on that. I don't want to be the test case for that point of the law. Now to find a holster for it.
-
One of the things I love about FL is that my CCW makes it legal to carry anything and as many things as I want concealed (auto-knives, batons, tasers, guns, etc)
-
How about on your own private property around your home?
That is touchy in a urban area it could be considered brandashing, best to keep it out of sight.
-
I open carry as much as I conceal. Here they are a tool, just as a Leatherman.
I did not see it before, but if you want more information. www.opencarry.org
-Bidah
-
I open carry as much as I conceal. Here they are a tool, just as a Leatherman.
I did not see it before, but if you want more information. www.opencarry.org
-Bidah
It's got to be great to live out west. Here in NYS, I'm very careful about even telling someone we own any type of firearm, let alone carry concealed. People would rather hear that you're gay or smoke dope than that you carry a gun. Talk about living in a closet.
Art
-
Ask SQUIBBY how the SIG IS DOING. Still going bang?