Concealed means concealed
Changing laws you don't agree with, is a very good thing. saying this law is illegal( alteast in your mind) I just won't fallow it. The hell with anyone else, its all about me. hypocrisy, and disregaurd for other is one of the few things people do that really make my blood boil.
As far as I understand it they actually have no right to deny a person carrying concealed or open. State law at least in my state supersedes it. If they happen to spot the firearm they can ask you to leave which you have to comply with or be charged with trespass. But like it was stated earlier concealed is just that they have no right to know.
Mike Mc
As far as I understand it they actually have no right to deny a person carrying concealed or open. State law at least in my state supersedes it. If they happen to spot the firearm they can ask you to leave which you have to comply with or be charged with trespass. But like it was stated earlier concealed is just that they have no right to know.
Mike Mc
If you commit a crime and were never cuaght, did you commit a crime?
If I render an opinion in the middle of the woods and my wife does not hear me, am I still wrong? ;D
If I render an opinion in the middle of the woods and my wife does not hear me, am I still wrong? ;D
They are not denying you your rights... you are going there BY CHOICE. you don't have to go there. They are allowing you to come on too thier properity...
If you allow some one into your home, do you expect them to fallow your rules?
most companys that have a no weapons policy are not anti or pro... they are just trying to stay in biz. Also most every single comp policy I have ever seen states very clearly no weapons.
I take that as progress, and perhaps some legal acknowledgment that the mall, as a business entity, has a liability exposure if they fail to adequately protect CCW licensed customers who have been rendered defenseless by no guns restrictions.
My .02.Haz makes a good point here...
Here in FL the law states that the State occupies the whole field on gun regulations, meaning you can't change them. The state law lists places you cannot carry. So I read it this way. A mall cannot post 'no guns' but private property is just that, private (by direct invitation only). If I work at a business that is open to the public then it is no longer 'private'.
thats funny... FL has more jacked up laws then CA does...
My point is would we be having this convo if it was not about guns? ( not talking about here, but in general)
One of my bigest complaints about the gun commuity as a whole is, they only tend to see the 2nd amendment... they some how miss the other 26 amendments and the 7 articals in the text.
If I render an opinion in the middle of the woods and my wife does not hear me, am I still wrong? ;D
You really had to ask? ;)
Fortunately, I live in Oklahoma. In places of public business our CCW laws make it illegal to carry where you are not wanted...however penalty wise...if you mess up and show and a store owners asks you to leave, you are supposed to leave. Let's say you don't leave after being asked and they call the police and the police show up and then they will tell you that you must leave. If you do not leave, you will be charged for tresspassing...please I really have more important things to do than to book you, drive you downtown, release you upon issuing a $75 fine that you probably won't have to pay.
Kewl, eh?
What laws are to refering to?
In CA you can refuse service as well as access, to your place of biz...( other life saving medical treatment) for pretty much any reason.
Now having a sign saying " no blacks" is going to get you in a world of hurt, but asking them to leave is fine. you are also allowed to restrict any object.(unless there is a law that says... you must wear this) for example I could make a rule that to enter my shop you have to be naked... I would just have to restrict those that can not be in that envroment( minors)
I should also point out that you still have to meet the ADA stuff and have access, but thats a civil matter... and the only real protected class these days.
Yes.
Haz makes a good point here...
Properties that invite the public in (businesses etc.) fall under different regulations for building codes, etc. They are considered public and must provide for the public with such as barrier free access, hand rails, etc. The fact that they DO invite the public in restricts their rights as private property owners in many ways, and it could be argued that in such places the rights of the public supersede those of the property owner.
But I'm a jackass, not a lawyer. Wait...they're the same thing...OK I'm a...this will take awhile....
In CA you can refuse service as well as access, to your place of biz...( other life saving medical treatment) for pretty much any reason.
Now having a sign saying " no blacks" is going to get you in a world of hurt, but asking them to leave is fine. you are also allowed to restrict any object.(unless there is a law that says... you must wear this) for example I could make a rule that to enter my shop you have to be naked... I would just have to restrict those that can not be in that envroment( minors)
I should also point out that you still have to meet the ADA stuff and have access, but thats a civil matter... and the only real protected class these days.
Dispite TAB's delusion it also leaves the business open to liability law suits.
Somehow I think that if you had employees sign a contract where they agreed that as a non-White Male employees they would be paid 20% less for the same work than White Male employees you would be facing right violation charges soon.
And since we cannot handle different rights in different ways, it would seem that violating an employee's 2nd Amendment Rights would need to be treated the same, even if they signed a contract allowing such infringement.
Many employers restrict firearms possession in private vehicles in company parking lots. This will negate your right to self protection on your way to and from work at least.
As far as legal goes, my shooting range is located so that I would have to drive through a half mile stretch of a city that had restrictions on having loaded firearms. The drive through this city took me past a 5 story clock/bell tower and I often asked my self what would I do if, as I passed the tower, a whacko started shooting folks from atop the tower.
Since stopping this act would be an easy shot with the skill I have with the rifles I carried, I somehow don't think I would have been able to say...Illegal is Illegal...I'll just drink my coffee till the traffic clears...
Marshal'ette-
When we want your opinion we will give it to you.
Chauvinist pig mode, OFF. :)
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/newshy.gif)
**(((M'Ette... who is slinking off to her corner, hoping no one notices I was up)))**[/b][/color]
Here is what my son and my ex have on their front windows of their Hardware Store here in Howard.
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/marshalette/DSC05998.jpg)
I bet they will never get robbed either.
or they shoot 1st.
Walk softly, carry a boom stick is my mantra.
I talk about my broomstick too...
But..ahhhhh you don't reeeealy want to know about that ..do you?? ?? ?? ??
(http://clipart.coolclips.com/AGifm/tf05242/CoolClips_wb028590.gif)
I bet they will never get robbed either.
Nope.. I don't think that would be a good idea...
They'de be talking to the Big Guy in the Sky before they knew what hit 'em.. ;D
Here is what my son and my ex have on their front windows of their Hardware Store here in Howard.
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/marshalette/DSC05998.jpg)
In CA you can refuse service as well as access, to your place of biz...( other life saving medical treatment) for pretty much any reason.
Now having a sign saying " no blacks" is going to get you in a world of hurt, but asking them to leave is fine. you are also allowed to restrict any object.(unless there is a law that says... you must wear this) for example I could make a rule that to enter my shop you have to be naked... I would just have to restrict those that can not be in that envroment( minors)
I should also point out that you still have to meet the ADA stuff and have access, but thats a civil matter... and the only real protected class these days.
Sorry, NO corporation - from the mom & pop hardware to the mega international corporation can deny you your rights as an American citizen.
.........Also a employer can ask you to wave any right they want too... all it takes is you to sign on the dotted line.( or even becoming an employee in some states)Most likely...not knowing the finer point of law. However, once on company property with rights excluded, the company is now suddenly responsible for security. They are not responsible for a criminal act but they are responsible to keep me safe (Hey, we can sue for spilling our own hot coffee on ourselves, right?). It's a farce to think if someone snaps there is time for the police whether a gun is involved or not (see mass knife killings in Japan this week). There may be laws saying no to this security issue across this nation....but there are a lot of laws that don't stand to scrutiny when people push the issue in court.
Same thing when you join the armed forces, you wave several of your rights.
Get use to it, thats not something that is ever going to change.
show me one court case that says carrying a firearm , is a right. hell show me one court case that says we can own a firearm as a person, not part of a group.
I'll help, as of this post there are not any.
Also a employer can ask you to wave any right they want too... all it takes is you to sign on the dotted line.( or even becoming an employee in some states)
Same thing when you join the armed forces, you wave several of your rights.
Get use to it, thats not something that is ever going to change.
Do you know of any?
Yes, Virginia Tech was sued as was the Mall in Omaha.
show me one court case that says carrying a firearm , is a right. hell show me one court case that says we can own a firearm as a person, not part of a group.
I'll help, as of this post there are not any.
Also a employer can ask you to wave any right they want too... all it takes is you to sign on the dotted line.( or even becoming an employee in some states)
Same thing when you join the armed forces, you wave several of your rights.
Get use to it, thats not something that is ever going to change.
So TAB, tell me you believe this is ok?
I have a CCW and a constitutional RIGHT to BEAR arms. My employer says not on their property (Car included) my state says not on school property. I drive 50 miles to work, dropping the kids off at school at the 30 mile mark and park in the company parking lot. I'm on the road two hours a day. Those are the two hours I believe I most need my firearm. If my car breaks down or I get caught in a storm, stuck on the highway for whatever reason I want my firearm. This is also the time when we do most of our shopping and running araound. This is when I should have access to my firearm but am technically prevented by my employer and a stop in a school parking lot. This is WRONG! I don't need to carry at work as the building is pretty secure but my right to carry for the entire non working day should not be violated either..
If the police don't have to protect you( this has come up many, many times in court cases) a private company will not have to.
There's something more basic than the law or even rights here. The fact that you can do something or have the right to do it does not mean you have to do it. If you know it will offend a lot of people and do anyway, especially to piss off those people, then you are not upholding your rights, you're just being rude. Manners, people, manners. A civilized society has to have rules of conduct. In a civilized society, the common citizen shouldn't have to go healed.
There's been a lot of talk about how you couldn't pass or enforce any rules that would target black people or women. That shows that this forum is peopled mostly by white males. Ah, testerone!
Several have mentioned that they CCW for protection. I'd like to ask, protection from what? Do you live in such a high crime area that the LEO's can't maintain the peace? Or is it as the song says, "Paranoia strikes deep/Into your heart it will creep..." Are you honestly telling me that if you had your wife and kids in the car with you and somebody did something threatening that you'd get into a gun fight with them? What if a stray bullet struck little Suzie in the head? Or is the varmints that you're worried about? Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
I don't think this is about 2nd Amendment rights, which I fully support. It's just macho bullshit. I am a man and I can do whatever I want whenever I want and you can't say me nay! And woe betide if you try!
From your post - "I don't think this is about 2nd Amendment rights, which I fully support. " - apparently not if your comments are a true indication.
As a gun owner, I do fully support the 2nd Amendment. I just think my interpretation of it is different than yours. That's why we have a Supreme Court, because the wording of the Constitution is open to discussion and interpretation. It's the very cornerstone of our society, and one of the best things about this forum and especially this thread. We can discuss. If you leave the discussion, you're violating your own right as an American citizen...free speech.
There's something more basic than the law or even rights here. The fact that you can do something or have the right to do it does not mean you have to do it. If you know it will offend a lot of people and do anyway, especially to piss off those people, then you are not upholding your rights, you're just being rude. Manners, people, manners. A civilized society has to have rules of conduct. In a civilized society, the common citizen shouldn't have to go healed.
There's been a lot of talk about how you couldn't pass or enforce any rules that would target black people or women. That shows that this forum is peopled mostly by white males. Ah, testerone!
Several have mentioned that they CCW for protection. I'd like to ask, protection from what? Do you live in such a high crime area that the LEO's can't maintain the peace? Or is it as the song says, "Paranoia strikes deep/Into your heart it will creep..." Are you honestly telling me that if you had your wife and kids in the car with you and somebody did something threatening that you'd get into a gun fight with them? What if a stray bullet struck little Suzie in the head? Or is the varmints that you're worried about? Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
I don't think this is about 2nd Amendment rights, which I fully support. It's just macho bullshit. I am a man and I can do whatever I want whenever I want and you can't say me nay! And woe betide if you try!
...
Several have mentioned that they CCW for protection. I'd like to ask, protection from what? Do you live in such a high crime area that the LEO's can't maintain the peace? Or is it as the song says, "Paranoia strikes deep/Into your heart it will creep..." Are you honestly telling me that if you had your wife and kids in the car with you and somebody did something threatening that you'd get into a gun fight with them? What if a stray bullet struck little Suzie in the head?...
muchisimas gracias, mi amigo. usted prueba mi punto.
Thank you, Rastus. Well said. It's what I appreciate about this forum, as I said. And, I apologize for the "macho bullshit" line. It was uncalled for. I know, I know, The Duke said, "Never apologize, son. It's a sign of weakness."
Thank you, Rastus. Well said. It's what I appreciate about this forum, as I said. And, I apologize for the "macho bullshit" line. It was uncalled for. I know, I know, The Duke said, "Never apologize, son. It's a sign of weakness."
actually no it was not uncalled for... there are lots of people that carry for the wrong reasons... one of them is acting "tough"
Another one is commiting felonies.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
Another one is commiting felonies.
If you know it will offend a lot of people and do anyway, especially to piss off those people, then you are not upholding your rights, you're just being rude.
Several have mentioned that they CCW for protection. I'd like to ask, protection from what? Do you live in such a high crime area that the LEO's can't maintain the peace? Or is it as the song says, "Paranoia strikes deep/Into your heart it will creep..."
As a gun owner, I do fully support the 2nd Amendment. I just think my interpretation of it is different than yours. That's why we have a Supreme Court, because the wording of the Constitution is open to discussion and interpretation. It's the very cornerstone of our society, and one of the best things about this forum and especially this thread. We can discuss. If you leave the discussion, you're violating your own right as an American citizen...free speech.
Are you honestly telling me that if you had your wife and kids in the car with you and somebody did something threatening that you'd get into a gun fight with them? What if a stray bullet struck little Suzie in the head?
There's something more basic than the law or even rights here. The fact that you can do something or have the right to do it does not mean you have to do it. If you know it will offend a lot of people and do anyway, especially to piss off those people, then you are not upholding your rights, you're just being rude. Manners, people, manners. A civilized society has to have rules of conduct. In a civilized society, the common citizen shouldn't have to go healed.
There's been a lot of talk about how you couldn't pass or enforce any rules that would target black people or women. That shows that this forum is peopled mostly by white males. Ah, testerone!
Several have mentioned that they CCW for protection. I'd like to ask, protection from what? Do you live in such a high crime area that the LEO's can't maintain the peace? Or is it as the song says, "Paranoia strikes deep/Into your heart it will creep..." Are you honestly telling me that if you had your wife and kids in the car with you and somebody did something threatening that you'd get into a gun fight with them? What if a stray bullet struck little Suzie in the head? Or is the varmints that you're worried about? Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
I don't think this is about 2nd Amendment rights, which I fully support. It's just macho bullshit. I am a man and I can do whatever I want whenever I want and you can't say me nay! And woe betide if you try!
I smell a steaming pile of troll.
Fragged!'
'
Yes we all have our quirks and beliefs on how issues should be approached. We even get on each others nerves from time to time...maybe. ;)
Regardless, it's a good thing that we all pull the wagons together when we recognize a threat.
Ken
TAB and Black Jack, thanks for posting. Keep the discussion open, and please keep the leftist leanings out in CA. ;D
Feel free to hurt my feelings. It will give me something to think about.
I am not a liberal. I am a conservative moderate. Infact compared to many of the posters in this thread I am much further rigth then they are on this issuse.
I am not a liberal. I am a conservative moderate. Infact compared to many of the posters in this thread I am much further rigth then they are on this issuse.
I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.
I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in this world.
I don't carry a gun because I am evil. I carry a gun because I've lived long enough to see the evil in the world.
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
I don't carry a gun because my sex organs are too small. I carry a gun because I want to continue to use those sex organs for the purpose they were intended for a good long time to come.
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because a real man knows how to take care and protect their property, themselves and the ones they love.
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing armed thugs I am inadequate.
I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
I don't carry a gun to shoot to kill someone. I carry a gun and would shoot as necessary to stay alive. If the assailant dies as a result of a desire to harm me, it's no loss to society.
Anonymous
I think this about sums up my position there Blackjack. And I will state, many members of this forum (as you are a guest), agree with these positions.
Previous quote:
Several have mentioned that they CCW for protection. I'd like to ask, protection from what? Do you live in such a high crime area that the LEO's can't maintain the peace?
Another member on this forum also summed this silly question : When life or death comes down to seconds, the Police are MINUTES AWAY. The Kool-Aid is choking me. :P
its a toss up between
my merkel 2016
my parker D grade 16
honarble mention...
One of my 1911s
nylon 66
one of my 1100s.
Rastus,
I have a Nylon 66. Mohwak brown, picked it up for 180 out the door about a year ago. FUN shooter!
This line really ticks me off. Not only is is breaking the law, but its also violating another persons rights( as a prop owner). Lots of us gun owners are all about "our" rights, maybe we need to pull our head from are butts and realize that other people have rights too. i won't even get into the whole breaking the law aspect.
What really ticks me off, is someone who thinks that just because we don't think the way he does, our heads must be up our butts. Which is the greater evil, someone who has been vetted by the FBI, state and local police exercising their constitutional rights, or some doped up career felon there to commit yet another felony?(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Gun%20free%20zone/selfdefensefree.gif)
Did I ever say that to anyone in this thread? I know others did.
the greater evil is some one knowingly and willingly breaking law in the name of selfishness.
What about all the people that have lost everything after thier company went belly up do to increases in Insurance? What about the people that lost everything becuase thier insurace did not cover them, becuase an employee violated company policy?
Its very simple, you have a choice, don't go there, don't bring your gun there, or break the law.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand exactly what insurance rates have to do with this?
What about all the people that have lost everything after thier company went belly up do to increases in Insurance? What about the people that lost everything becuase thier insurace did not cover them, becuase an employee violated company policy?
Its very simple, you have a choice, don't go there, don't bring your gun there, or break the law.
When you run a biz, every thing will become comply clear.
I took in almost 1.5 mil last year out of that about 25% went to materials, about 25% went to employee wages, 10% went to workmens comp INS, about 10% went to bonding and liabilty, another 10% went to truck exps and about 10% in new tools. so at the end of the year, what did I end up making? 74k mmm lets see so that means I made... about 17/ hour. A small increase in in one area means I have no choice but to raise prices or cut costs. Now since times are tough I can't really raise prices. so... I have to cut costs... the only cost I have that I can control is wages. This year alone I've let 4 people go, next pay cycle I'm letting 3 more go.
So which would you choose a insurance company that does not allow weapons, or one that does but costs 25% more?
I have been really quiet on this subject...(I know I know.. hard to believe ;)) but I've been reading all the posts.
I can't eloquently debate this, as a lot of you have done, with any amount of information that you all haven't covered.
But what I think is.............
Concealed Carry is just that...! Conceal your firearm and carry it as you have a license to do.
Quietly and with no advertisement. And I have to add .....Sign or No Sign.
I don't advertise to anyone if I'm carrying a firearm or if I'm not.
That is the reason it has the word "conceal" in the title of the certificate.
Conceal..........To keep from being seen, found, observed, or discovered; hide
Sorry... but breaking some liberals business rule is not my first concern.
What IS my first concern is that, 'one in a million' chance of a total life threatening situation arising from someone who is at a place to solely take innocent lives.
I'm not going to ever put myself in a situation to be a sitting duck on a carnival shelf for anyone...anywhere..at any time, if I can help it...just because someone in a corporate office is stupid enough to believe that because they have a sign on their door, that everyone in their establishment is "safe" from anything happening.
If the shit hits the fan and I'm forced to show that I have self protection..I can cough up the money to pay a fine.
I CAN'T bring myself back from the dead.
(Just my own personal opinion and decision)
So its ok for some one to bring anything on to anyones property as long as no one knows its there?
That is what the goblins do.
One thing insurance companies and others do not tell you is your liability does not end because of
insurance company rules. If you force someone to disarm on your property and do not take reasonably prudent measures to protect
them they then have the right to hold you responsible for any harm they incur while under your protection.
You are literally damned if you do (obey the rules) and damned if you do not (obey the rules).
Have you hired the necessary number of (armed) security guards and installed various (expensive) security devices to ensure the safety of all the people on your property?
Liability lawyers love this kind of stuff.
Best regards,
Todate no one has ever been sued for having a no weapons policy( and had it actually go to trail)...
To date is a good way to look at it. Before there were no officially sanctioned concealed carry laws.
Now if someone has gone to the trouble of jumping every flaming hoop to get a concealed carry license and you forcibly disarm him/her with a sign you have assumed liability for their safety.
Wait for it. It is coming.
Best regards,
Call me some one with the courage of his convictions. In WA the state occupies the whole field (here in FL, too) so I really don't give a darn what you post on property that is open to and inviting in the public.
I assume with your stance that you never knowingly break the law. So I also further infer that your child/ wife etc would bleed to death while you drove at 35 mph to the hospital. Correct?
When you run a biz, every thing will become comply clear.
I took in almost 1.5 mil last year out of that about 25% went to materials, about 25% went to employee wages, 10% went to workmens comp INS, about 10% went to bonding and liabilty, another 10% went to truck exps and about 10% in new tools. so at the end of the year, what did I end up making? 74k mmm lets see so that means I made... about 17/ hour. A small increase in in one area means I have no choice but to raise prices or cut costs. Now since times are tough I can't really raise prices. so... I have to cut costs... the only cost I have that I can control is wages. This year alone I've let 4 people go, next pay cycle I'm letting 3 more go.
So which would you choose a insurance company that does not allow weapons, or one that does but costs 25% more?
If you have on site security, ie, armed employees, approved by State and Federal Govt, your insurance would be lowwer. The fact seems to be, based on YOUR comments, Because you can't swim you think you have the "Right" of pissing in everyones pool. You are so messed up you even think it's wrong that LEO's can carry nation wide.
Last weeks Gun Talk Tom Gresham (in hour 1 ) had some pointed comments about people like you , He said they were "foolishly short sighted"
you really don't know me at all. Your posts have done nothing but prove how closed minded the gun community really is.
Show me one post where I said I was against Concealed carry.
So its ok for some one to bring anything on to anyones property as long as no one knows its there?If you ain't paying my wages, I don't care what your "Company policy" is. I'm going to do what the law says I can, CARRY CONCEALED, and if you don't like it there are 2 things you can do, one of which is asking me to leave.
I am not a liberal. I am a conservative moderate. Infact compared to many of the posters in this thread I am much further rigth then they are on this issuse.
Nothing is stoping you from droping your kid off on the street and findig another parking lot for work.
I try very hard to obey the law, do I break it every once in awhile, yes. Do I do it intentionaly, some times. Do I violate other peoples rights in the process, no.
You need to go reread those posts... they were infact directed towards One LEO in general, that was a LEO in name only, strickly for so he could carry nationwide.
Last time I checked conserving the rights of every one is about in conservative as it gets. But since all you ever think about is ME, ME, ME... its hard for you to see that.
Just got back from a trip. Boy this thread exploded...
Your correct about the teenager but the three year old may not make it to where she belongs. ::)
As for the the work parking, lot there aren't any within at least a mile. Ultimately I don't care about the work parking lot anyway (it's a policy). It's my car and I'll keep whatever I want in there...
You keep mentioning that this is about other peoples "rights". Is this like Roosevelts freedom from fear? Is there some hoplophobia going on here. Do you just have a fear of others carrying? I am totaly in dark as to how my carrying a concelled handgun violates anyone elses rights. I'm not religious but if I carried a pocket bible would that vioates someones rights as well? Please don't take these as insults I'm just trying to understand your point of view..
snip
TAB, YOU ARE FULL OF YOURSELF, and you are full of crap.
prove me wrong...Read the post I re posted , yes you are full of crap.
All you have done is say ME, ME, ME... insult people and post butt head smiles. Yet I'm the one that is full of crap?
Take a look in the mirror.
Really I'm full of crap becuase I beleave that the entire USCONs is important, not just 1 of the many amendments?
I love that logic.
Without that one the rest are toilet paper. take a couple days and work that out.
Do you have the right to restirct who and what comes on to your property... that is the right I speak of... if you beleave its ok for you to bring a gun against some ones wish on to thier property... when do you want me to set up a KKK rally on your front lawn? ( I am not a member of the kkk, just using them as an example) you can't thump the 2a with out thumping the rest of the USCONS in this case the 1a for its free speach.
Really? thats intresting, with out the 1st you could not even have said that, but surely the 2a is the most powerful one... thats why its number 2?
Political power comes from the Barrel of a gun, remember that from your indoctrination ?
What ever happend to those god given rights you thump? Oh I get it... god only gives them to people that are willing to use violance to get them...
What ever happend to those god given rights you thump? Oh I get it... god only gives them to people that are willing to use violance to get them..
Honestly, do you think insulting me and name calling is helping your argument? Its making you look like a fool. ( your words)
Haz there is a diffrence when it comes to firearms... they are not a protected class( they are in a handful of states, not nationwide) race, relgion and skin color are protected classes. I feel sorry for your property owners as they have lost thier rights in that respect.
Oh by the way I just got a copy of the new ADA regs that will be in a "comment" period starting today for the next 60 days.... I strongly recomend everyone leave comments on then...
But its fun and you make it so easy.
The 2a is just that, an actual amendment listed in the BOR. Sounds like the most protected "class" there is.
BTW why is it liberals like to bring up "class" as though all people are not equal? The people that have a CCW or believe firmly in the 2A are not a class, neither are blacks, Jews, the disabled, etc. They are all just people with the same rights as every one else here in the USofA.
.......... out of that about 25% went to materials, about 25% went to employee wages, 10% went to workmens comp INS, about 10% went to bonding and liabilty, another 10% went to truck exps and about 10% in new tools. so at the end of the year, what did I end up making? 74k mmm lets see so that means I made... about 17/ hour. A small increase in in one area means I have no choice but to raise prices or cut costs. Now since times are tough I can't really raise prices. so... I have to cut costs... the only cost I have that I can control is wages. This year alone I've let 4 people go, next pay cycle I'm letting 3 more go.
So which would you choose a insurance company that does not allow weapons, or one that does but costs 25% more?
Really? thats intresting, with out the 1st you could not even have said that, but surely the 2a is the most powerful one... thats why its number 2?I've been in quite a few fights and a couple of deadly confrontations. Mouthing off never deterred a willing foe nor did it win the fight.
Really? thats intresting, with out the 1st you could not even have said that, but surely the 2a is the most powerful one... thats why its number 2?
Thats just it, I do beleave every one should have the same rights under the law, but currently that is not the case. Besides class in this case is a legal term. I also beleave that if you go onto some ones property by choice, the property owner has the right to restrict what you can and can not do ( or bring in) to said property.
Uh, not to be too picky but that's "eminent domain".
OK, I said this once before, but this time for sure -I am done with this thread. It has been like a bad traffic accident that you just can't look away from.
We are obviously not going to change Tab's mind about his property rights trumping all of our other rights. Is he right? In some cases, in some places, maybe. Everywhere in the US? Absolutely not.
I would suggest his stint in the people's republik of CA, especially as a small business owner, has obviously made it very difficult for him to see things clearly. Odd, I'm sure he thinks he is the only one with clarity on this.
So I am walking away, no use arguing with someone so resistant to fact, law, practice or anything else. Like arguing with my teenagers when they were teenagers. Hell, like arguing with them now.
Now, where's that doggone joke thread?
Sayonara.
............I would suggest his stint in the people's republik of CA, especially as a small business owner, has obviously made it very difficult for him to see things clearly. Odd, I'm sure he thinks he is the only one with clarity on this........
Tab,
If you service the public then you are inviting me onto (into) your premises. No discrimination allowed. Except for health and safety which you cannot prove re: CCW. Going against your will is not against the law.
Could be something in the water. Insidious addition of Kool-Aide to the water supply of gun owners. Mixed with flouride there ain't no tellin' what that stuff may do.
(http://www.mazeguy.net/musical/note.gif)FEEELINGS, WOA WOA WOA FEELINGS....(http://www.mazeguy.net/musical/note.gif) (http://www.mazeguy.net/musical/sing.gif)
(http://www.mazeguy.net/happy/laughing.gif) (http://www.mazeguy.net/happy/rotfl.gif)
Tab,
If you service the public then you are inviting me onto (into) your premises. No discrimination allowed. Except for health and safety which you cannot prove re: CCW. Going against your will is not against the law.
Thank you! I'll be here until I die...Don't forget to tip the waiters! ;DHey....you know how many times I've said that? But now the politically correct term is "servers" because they are of both genders and mixed up of both genders all which way, so it's "servers".
Hey....you know how many times I've said that? But now the politically correct term is "servers" because they are of both genders and mixed up of both genders all which way, so it's "servers".
I need to say something before I go to bed. We are still in New Mexico filming.. but I try to at least get on here a teeny bit at night to read what is going on..
So don't think that just because the "Queen " is away.. you all can raise too much hell. ;D ;D
Now... what I was going to say is this.
You guys are just the greatest! All of you!
Here we have a thread that is just over the top in emotions.. there has been (about 4 times) comments and situations where it could have been a full blown range war. But it wasn't.
Tab.. I have to hand it to you. Even though you are in the minority on this issue,, you still believe strongly in your convictions on this matter, to answer and comment each time it is brought up again. . You have taken a rash of shit and still been pretty even tempered during it all. And I don't think you will find one man or gal in here that doesn't respect you for that.
I probably might not (Probably might not? ??? ) have kept my cool if I had been hammered at from all directions for so long ... and even though we all have strong feelings and beliefs on this issue.. you all can still crack some jokes right in the middle of it ..laugh, and still debate and discuss like good friends.
Damn I'm proud of all of you :-*
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/beer.gif)
Eeewwww, iicccckkkk....yeeeech. Touchy feeley stuff. Ugggh. Girl stuff, yeeccchhhh....oooowwww. Where's my $3 testosterone vitamin energy drink...I feel drained. I'm melting....melting....melting away........ :P :P :P :P :P :P
the police don't have to defend you, and they disarm people all the time. So if your envoled in a shooting, with a gang member, and the police take your weapon( which is SOP) they donot have to defend you against the gang bangers buddys... why should some one else?
Wow! TAB, California has really brainwashed you..... you might want to look into moving back to the good old U.S. of A. :)
I've not seen one fact in this thread that oposes my veiw point... seen lots of emotional statements.
Now as far as a cop siezing your gun during an investagation of a crime( of which all shootings start out to be)... That is a battle you are going to lose, when it happends, when you go the LEO office, when you file in court, when you go to the USCOUS. Ask any one versed in the law that question... all of them will tell you, you don't have a snow balls chance in hell.( well maybe not the ones that only want your money, but thats another thread)
Had a gun taken 'for safety reasons'. Was told I could go the the cop shop to get it back. I did, they did. No problem.
TECHNICALLY, every Law Enforcement Agency,including or especially Federal Agencies is/are required to register with the local
Sheriff before they engage in any investigation or arrest. Some Western Sheriffs have made this point in court with mixed results to date.
/quote]
John, could you explain where this requirement is found? Although I am an east coaster, I never heard of this and know it is not in practice here. We (North Carolinians) regularly have Sheriffs arrested for corruption and there is certainly no notice given to them until the warrants are issued and served.
Thanks, Mac.
John, could you explain where this requirement is found? Although I am an east coaster, I never heard of this and know it is not in practice here. We (North Carolinians) regularly have Sheriffs arrested for corruption and there is certainly no notice given to them until the warrants are issued and served.
Thanks, Mac.
..........Maybe you should investigate what the Feds are up to in these Sheriff Corruption Investigations. Chances are it involves the War on Drugs or the War on The Bill of Rights or the War on Civil Liberties.
Are these Sheriffs ?
Best regards,
Because of the location of the State relative to the New York to Florida, we are a drug pipeline, warehouse, transfer point. So much money involved in keeping up with US demand that some of the High Sheriffs just can't resist. It's not so much politics. It's about the money. Organized crime in a uniform. Not much worse in my opinion. Maybe baby rapists? Toss up.
Mac.
Legalize it and tax it!
Legalize it and tax it!
1st drugs are not illegal... and we already taxed it...pocessing drugs with out the tax stamp is illegal. we just never printed the tax stamps. Yes it has gone to court more then once... been afrimed every time.
Legalize it and tax it!
Whatever, TAB. ::)
Its the truth, that is how we "baned" drugs. making drugs "legal" will not help, until we as a culture no long desire drugs, "the war on drugs" will never stop. With out demand the supply will go away.
TAB,
Any sane person knows the demand will never 'go away'. But it would be lessened if it were legal (how ever you wish to define that). Part of the 'mystique' is the whole forbidden fruit thing. It could also be controlled better at less cost.
Do you honestly believe that we can stamp out demand?
The government is in charge of the war on drugs! For which they conveniently suspend the 4th Amendment via 'no knock'.
Are you telling me that what we are doing now is preferable to "legalize it, tax it"?
when has putting the goverment in charge of anything made it better?
No knocks should never happen...( other then in the most extreme conditions, like when there are hostages)
Not every thing we do is prefered, but alot of it is. Its a damn shame we don't do one of the simplest things... build a wall on our southern boarder. If we could secure that... alot of our probs would go away....( not talking about just drugs)
when has putting the goverment in charge of anything made it better?
Larry Elder wrote an Excellent book called "10 Things You Can't Say In America" This is one of the subjects he covers. It was the source of most of my information in the Urine test thread a few months ago. Other subjects include, Gun Control, and Democrats, the party of victims.
Getting back to the original post...concealed meaning concealed. I respect person's rights, as in an owner's rights. My problem with the no guns things in department stores, etc. is that they are entities treated as persons not real persons. Corporations are a paper gimmick, a legal loophole designed to do various things. One of the things they should not be able to do is to make policy that abrogates the 2nd Ammendment or any other part of the Bill of Rights.
Not to stir anything back up here....but just had this thought brought to me and wanted to share the keen, insightful view. :D
Drinkin again, huh? ;DNaw...just took a kick to the head.
You have the right to remain silent...
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a reply thread....