The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on June 26, 2008, 11:54:04 PM
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Don't Catch - Kill!
Ralph Peters, NY Post.com
The first beneficiary of Barack Obama's promise to expand health-care access could be Osama bin Laden.
The senator would rather see Osama captured, not killed, then put into our federal system for trial. That means the terror master would get better medical treatment - for free - than many Post readers can afford.
Is that really what Americans want? To spend millions of dollars protecting a captive bin Laden and millions more treating his kidney problems?
Is that an effective reply to 9/11? Does it pass any common-sense test?
Recent events should have made it clear - again - that captive terrorists are overwhelmingly a liability. The meager intelligence we get interrogating them is rarely commensurate with the array of financial, moral and legal costs involved in keeping them locked up.
Worst of all (as I've repeatedly argued), a jailed terrorist, not a dead one, is the true "martyr." Incarcerated terrorists become celebrated causes for our domestic left and rallying points for foreign fanatics. The dead just rot.
A few weeks ago, a well-planned terrorist assault on a prison in Kandahar, Afghanistan, freed dozens of Taliban midlevel managers and perhaps 200 terrorist foot soldiers.
What benefit had we gained by taking these butchers prisoner instead of killing them on the battlefield? They merely lived to fight another day.
Almost simultaneously, our Supreme Court ruled that terrorists who slaughter Americans should enjoy legal protections meant for US citizens. I respect and admire the Supremes, but this decision drives home the truism that "Only God is perfect."
A dead terrorist is a good terrorist. Keeps costs down, too.
To be clear: I do not advocate executing prisoners. We should treat any terrorist we capture rigorously, but with basic decency. I would only condone forceful interrogation methods in the most exceptional cases (there are always exceptions in real life, once you leave the rarefied air of the law library or the campus).
But it is my belief that our conventional military and special-operations efforts should emphasize killing terrorists on the battlefield or in their lairs - conditions where it is entirely legal to do so. Taking these murderers prisoner should be an accident, not a goal.
Once a terrorist raises his hands in surrender, we must honor the pertinent conventions. But effective military and intelligence operations shouldn't give him the chance to wave a white rag.
Certainly, we should do all we sensibly can to avoid harming the innocent. Effective targeting demands sound intelligence work (ours has gotten much better). And, once in a great while, we'll decide that a senior terrorist should be taken alive for interrogation.
But the left-wing arguments against killing those who do all they can to kill us are simply wrong. You can kill your way out of terrorist challenges - it's been done countless times through the centuries. (That's what's happening to Al Qaeda in Iraq today.)
And killing terrorists doesn't put us on a "slippery slope." Killing Osama or Ayman al-Zawahiri wouldn't inevitably mean that our Special Forces would then turn to assassinating Iowa aldermen or Alabama church deacons.
The greatest left-wing fallacy in the War on Terror is the conviction that protecting the rights of terrorists is more important than protecting the rights of the innocent. It is utterly wrong to imagine that, by according exaggerated legal protections to terrorists, we strengthen the legal basis of our society.
Our government's basic justification for existing is the protection of its own citizens.
There is nothing heroic or noble about defending a fanatical mass murderer's "rights." The nobility lies in protecting the masses of innocent human beings who obey the law. When anyone chooses the path of terror, he or she leaps beyond all constitutional guarantees.
Over and over again, our military has found that escaped or released terrorist prisoners kill again. And hard-core terrorists can't be rehabilitated: The redemption of human monsters is a myth.
No terrorist captured abroad should ever set foot on American soil. No terrorist taken overseas should ever enter a US courtroom. And no terrorist of any kind should ever receive free health care that working Americans can't afford for their families.
No special diets, either. Let 'em eat corn dogs.
The greatest weapon we could apply to fighting terrorists is common sense.
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Part of the problem is we haven't decided what we are dealing with, If Taliban, Al quaeda, and Iraqi insurgents are civilian criminals then they should have their day in court. We ALL support the Constitution here, and that guaruntees the accused a fair trial in a CIVILIAN Court NOT a military tribunal. If they are "Soldiers" of a military organization, they are Prisoners of war and should be held in POW camps for the duration, just like prisoners during the Civil war. With out trial as they would not be "criminals" but soldiers serving their cause. Such trials are a violation of the Geneva Conventions which we rely on to assure decent treatment of our troops who may be captured.
The Geneva Convention also provides for the treatment of soldiers cought trying to pass as civilians, They may be shot out of hand (Without trial ) as spies. No where in American civil law, the UCMJ, or international law will you find justification for military tribunals for captured combatants, all fall into one of those three catagories.
So, which is it?
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Tom,
You said it all !!!
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I would actually like to see him captured rather then shot on sight... I'd much rather have the fooker in jail some where getting the living shit beat out of him on a regular basis, then as a marter.
that or give every american a one free punch... then shoot him.
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My first thought of what to do with bin Laden was to dress him in pig skin (I heard that a Muslims believe they will not be accepted into heaven if dressed that way.....any truth to that?), chain him to a lamp post near where the trade centers stood, feed him only ham sandwiches and pork chops.
Place round the clock guards to insure he is not pelted with anything more damaging than fleeces and urine and let him sit there until he either starves to death or the line isn't forming any more.
Then scoop up the whole mess, put it in a compacting NYC garbage truck and haul it to were ever they dump the rest of the garbage in NYC.
At the time I didn't think of charging the networks to place live video cameras, but then I've never had a good business head.
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I would actually like to see him captured rather then shot on sight... I'd much rather have the fooker in jail some where getting the living shit beat out of him on a regular basis, then as a marter.
that or give every american a one free punch... then shoot him.
My first thought of what to do with bin Laden was to dress him in pig skin (I heard that a Muslims believe they will not be accepted into heaven if dressed that way.....any truth to that?), chain him to a lamp post near where the trade centers stood, feed him only ham sandwiches and pork chops.
Place round the clock guards to insure he is not pelted with anything more damaging than fleeces and urine and let him sit there until he either starves to death or the line isn't forming any more.
Then scoop up the whole mess, put it in a compacting NYC garbage truck and haul it to were ever they dump the rest of the garbage in NYC.
At the time I didn't think of charging the networks to place live video cameras, but then I've never had a good business head.
Both are marvelous Ideas, However I have to correct TAB, I don't think any crap would come out of him the way he would be Ahem, "plugged up" ;D
But we need to establish his status, Is he "criminal" (that would make TAB's idea workable, but at our expense) or is he a spy? (No catch and release for him) My guess is that regardless of the decision of higher authority, some enlisted man will put a bullet or several into him and say he tried to grab for a gun, probably even supply the gun if there isn't one handy. The enlisted man will be court martial ed, fined $40 and given a carton of cigarettes and a transfer.
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Solus ... YES. Muslims look at the pig as unclean and will not touch it.
UbL ... if he is still alive ... he would probably like to get caught and have a trial. He is a true believer. With this, he would like the stage to preach his twisted version of Islam to the world. Maybe B-Ho really misses Rev Wright and needs a “fix” of America hating rhetoric?
My point of view, I would like to see him and all his goat humping buddies dead. Vaporized from a direct hit via a 2,000 lb noggin buster. No martyr, no body. Just his ass spread out in little bitty chunks over a 300m area. Send him straight to hell where he will have a pair of critters that look like furry farm animals but have the loveable faces of Yasser and Mohammad on them … taking turns with his ass. Yeah Usama, you read the Qur’an and you know the “virgin thing” was a recruitment hoax. Sign over the door would read, "Welcome to Hell UbL".
On the other hand …
The thought of him in general population would make an incredible reality show. He could be cell mates with Hulk Hogan’s whiney-ass son. They could make prison wine and take turns being the wife. Show would have to be on cable since the “shower scenes” would show the softer side ( :o ) … in a rather gripping if not “penetrating” way … of the world’s most wanted criminal. Need to think about the prison work details scenes. Would be great TV if we get a combination of “I Love Lucy” in the chocolate factory and the “The Three Stooges” while they make license plates. Maybe work a chain gang?
Naw. Just kill him. 8)
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When the SCOTUS ruling favoring terrorist was in the news last week one of the news programs quoted a long time special forces operator. His comment was what the rulling meant on the battle field was that few prisnors would be taken.
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Solus ... YES. Muslims look at the pig as unclean and will not touch it.
UbL ... if he is still alive ... he would probably like to get caught and have a trial. He is a true believer. With this, he would like the stage to preach his twisted version of Islam to the world. Maybe B-Ho really misses Rev Wright and needs a “fix” of America hating rhetoric?
My point of view, I would like to see him and all his goat humping buddies dead. Vaporized from a direct hit via a 2,000 lb noggin buster. No martyr, no body. Just his ass spread out in little bitty chunks over a 300m area. Send him straight to hell where he will have a pair of critters that look like furry farm animals but have the loveable faces of Yasser and Mohammad on them … taking turns with his ass[/i]. Yeah Usama, you read the Qur’an and you know the “virgin thing” was a recruitment hoax. Sign over the door would read, "Welcome to Hell UbL".
On the other hand …
The thought of him in general population would make an incredible reality show. He could be cell mates with Hulk Hogan’s whiney-ass son. They could make prison wine and take turns being the wife. Show would have to be on cable since the “shower scenes” would show the softer side ( :o ) … in a rather gripping if not “penetrating” way … of the world’s most wanted criminal. Need to think about the prison work details scenes. Would be great TV if we get a combination of “I Love Lucy” in the chocolate factory and the “The Three Stooges” while they make license plates. Maybe work a chain gang?
Naw. Just kill him. 8)
You have to open up, Tell us how you really feel. ;D
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You have to open up, Tell us how you really feel. ;D
Yeah...I think he's repressing his feelings.
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OBL? Nail his sorry ass to the ground, have doctors support him to keep him alive, and skin him slowly - starting at the feet, so you don't risk major organs - with a belt sander and 60-grit paper. Let the skin grow back, and repeat. Oh, and put hose-clamps on all of his fingers and toes - to be tightened once a day or so 'til the gangrene sets in. Do this indefinitely 'til he dies on his own.
Nothing we can do to him is bad enough. I really want this bastard dead, and not by a bomb - hold his head up to every camera within range to no one has any doubt.
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Solus ... YES. Muslims look at the pig as unclean and will not touch it.
I wonder if any thought has been given to spraying terrorists hideouts and pathways with bacon fat?
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Nothing we can do to him is bad enough. I really want this bastard dead, and not by a bomb - hold his head up to every camera within range to no one has any doubt.
Just his head.
I wonder if any thought has been given to spraying terrorists hideouts and pathways with bacon fat?
Probably, those guy at CIA are some devious bastards, Luckily for us ;D
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I wonder if any thought has been given to spraying terrorists hideouts and pathways with bacon fat?
ONE of the plans on the board for the Tehran Embassy rescue was to create a diversion by dropping pigs out of a C130 (?) over Tehran. I don't recall if they were to be dropped or parachuted.
A true Muslim cannot touch pork and the city would be in chaos with pigs coming down from the sky. Carter said no because the "Humane Society and the press would crucify" him.
I still think the "reality show" has some legs. Still would rather him be vaporized OR force his sorry ass to listen to Barbara Streisand records with Rosie O'Donnel as the DJ. Yeah, that's pretty twisted. ;)
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I still think the "reality show" has some legs. Still would rather him be vaporized OR force his sorry ass to listen to Barbara Streisand records with Rosie O'Donnel as the DJ. Yeah, that's pretty twisted. ;)
Call a Veterinarian, We have some SICK puppies here. ;D Could use him as the practice dummy in a South American torture school.
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Goes for Usama bin Shoppin too.
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/UBL.jpg)
The band Pantera wrote an appropriate song for this bastard; " 5 Minutes Alone ", that would be all I need. 8)
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I've always liked buffalo bores match grade ammo box...
(http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/images/sniper1.jpg)
still rather see him suffering for the rest of his life then dead...
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+1 Tab!
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/UBL.jpg)
The band Pantera wrote an appropriate song for this bastard; " 5 Minutes Alone ", that would be all I need. 8)
Twy, I think your weak hand grip is too strong and making your follow up shots drift left a bit....
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Welcome to hell, Osama...here is your accordian and your Neil Diamond record.
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Welcome to hell, Osama...here is your accordian and your Neil Diamond record.
Wasn't "play an accordian ... go to jail" a line from a Frank Zappa song?