The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: RMc on June 28, 2008, 02:50:17 AM

Title: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: RMc on June 28, 2008, 02:50:17 AM
What about Taxes and Fees imposed on a Individual Civil Right?  Is not the power to tax also the power to destroy?

The Heller Decision opens the door to lawsuits challenging special firearms and ammunition taxes on 2nd Amendment grounds - even those taxes that benefit hunting and shooting sports!

The question of special taxes - even small ones - on any aspect of a constitutionally protected right was settled by the Supreme Court 25 years ago in a Freedom of the Press, 1st Amendment challenge.

In Minneapolis Star v Minnesota ,(1983), SOTUS ruled that raw newsprint paper cannot be subject to any special taxes, regardless of how minimal the tax, without violating the the 1st Amendment's protection of the Press. By this standard, the individual right to keep and bear arms would put an end to special taxes on guns and ammunition for violating th 2nd Amendment's protection.

Unintended consequences:

The Pittman-Robertson Act (Section 4181), federal excise taxes on firearms and ammunition could be eliminated. Since 1937, these taxes have pumped over $5 billion into conservation, wildlife management and hunter safety programs. "In 2007, the firearms and ammunition industry contributed a total of $303.2 million in excise taxes, up 21.2 percent from the $250.1 million in 2006." (NSSF press release June 23, 2008)

It is, however, highly unlikely the firearms industry would initiate any constitutional challenge to these excise taxes - even if "...the Second  Amendment is not about duck hunting."

Consider again:

In Minneapolis Star v Minnesota, the Supreme Court concluded:
"...differential taxation that selectively burdens the exercise of a fundamental right is impermissable."

As many have said, ...Heller is the first step.
It should prove to be an interesting journey

Ralph McLaney

Ref:
John Snyder, Arms, Law and Society No. 1, Spring 1995
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/ (http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/)
NSSF Press Release June 23, 2008
http://nssf.org/news/index.cfm (http://nssf.org/news/index.cfm)
Title: Re: Real Controversy: Pittman-Roberston Act Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: Hazcat on June 28, 2008, 05:48:06 AM
We may have to challenge this act simply because you know the antis will try to 'control guns' with exorbitant taxation.
Title: Re: Real Controversy: Pittman-Roberston Act Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: 1776 Rebel on June 28, 2008, 06:59:24 AM
It is, however, highly unlikely the firearms industry would initiate any constitutional challenge to these excise taxes


It certainly is the right of any one individual or class who is paying the tax (you and me) to initiate a case. The lawyers I am sure are going to having a BIG party this weekend!
Title: Re: Real Controversy: Pittman-Roberston Act Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: Pathfinder on June 28, 2008, 07:07:46 AM
It is, however, highly unlikely the firearms industry would initiate any constitutional challenge to these excise taxes


It certainly is the right of any one individual or class who is paying the tax (you and me) to initiate a case. The lawyers I am sure are going to having a BIG party this weekend!

For once, I am glad the lawyers have something to do.
Title: Re: Real Controversy: Pittman-Roberston Act Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: RMc on June 28, 2008, 09:12:12 AM
It is, however, highly unlikely the firearms industry would initiate any constitutional challenge to these excise taxes


It certainly is the right of any one individual or class who is paying the tax (you and me) to initiate a case. The lawyers I am sure are going to having a BIG party this weekend!

Not quite:  The FAET excise tax is paid by the manufacturer.  Even though the consumer utimately pays the tax in increased prices, only the actual taxpayer would have standing to challenge the tax in court.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: ericire12 on June 28, 2008, 09:28:28 AM
It sure would bring down prices of ammo.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: TAB on June 28, 2008, 10:46:20 AM
One of the very few powers granted to the federal goverment is the power to tax... They are not going to give that up with out one hell of a fight.


currently the tax does not stop people from getting a firearm.   If they were to go the route that they did with illegal drugs,  then that would be a battle that could be won.  ( drugs are not illegal, they are taxed, you need  stamp to pocess them.  Only one prob, they never printed the stamps.)
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 28, 2008, 12:35:58 PM
Just from reading RMc's first post, I think TAB's conclusion is incorrect ( NOTE: I use the EZ form to file  ;D )
However, RMc posts about a tax on News print being declared unconstitutional, Paper would not seem to be covered by  1st amendment until it has something printed on it, However it is a Nessacary raw material , along with ink, pencils etc. to Freedom of the press. Poll taxes have been declared unconstitutional.
My interpetation of the info here is that despite Governments Justifiable power to levy taxes, there are limits to where that power can be excersised, just as We can not use "Freedom of speech to justify yelling fire in a crowded theater.
Comments ?
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: ericire12 on June 28, 2008, 01:22:24 PM
currently the tax does not stop people from getting a firearm. 

Disenfranchisement.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: tt11758 on July 02, 2008, 03:15:03 PM
Disenfranchisement.

Silly boy, you can't be disenfranchised unless you're a liberal, don't you know that?    ;D
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: RMc on July 14, 2008, 06:37:50 PM
It is happening now!  Massachusetts proposes massive increase in Firearms License Fees!  A tax by any other name?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHSB ";“ License to Carry Fee -1

SECTION 24. Section 122 of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as appearing in the 2006 Official Edition, is hereby amended by striking out, in line 28, the figure " $100"; and inserting in place thereof the following figure:- $250.

CHSB ";“ Annual Dealer License Fee

SECTION 25. Said section 122 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby further amended by inserting after the word " Fund.";, in line 33, the following sentence:- Each year in which a license holder need not apply for a license renewal, the license holder shall pay to the licensing authority a license inspection fee of $100.

CHSB ";“ License to Carry Fee ";“ 2

SECTION 26. Section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out, in line 240, the figure " $100"; and inserting in place thereof the following figure:- $200.

CHSB ";“ Non Residential Firearms License Fee

SECTION 27. Section 131F of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out, in line 53, the figure " $100"; and inserting in place thereof the following figure:- $250.

http://www.goal.org/news/Legislative/DevalLicenseFeeLanguage.htm
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Issue: Firearms & Ammunition Excise Tax Unconstitutional?
Post by: twyacht on July 14, 2008, 08:38:42 PM
Chris Rock once made an offhand stand up skit regarding gun control. "Make each bullet $5.00!" As offhanded and just a comedian making a stand up remark, there is no Amendment regulating FEES and TAXES regarding ammo. There are some in the anti-gun group that will try that very thing. The Brady group is relentless,....

Think of the Beatles song, tax the brass, tax the powder, tax the lead,... Look at ammo prices already, just like the "sin" taxes in this country, tobacco, alcohol, and now ammo is going to be the "sin" that can and will be taxed in one direction.....