The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: DDMac on June 28, 2008, 04:59:47 PM
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This ammo is at LEAST 50 years old. There is no date on the headstamp. Does anyone know with which gun this would have been used?
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj211/DMACK_2008/9mm20smc20ammo.jpg)
Thanks, Mac.
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Possibly for export to England for their Stens. I don't see a date on it but during the war companies tried to cut back their usage of many things so the plain box. it's standard 9mm, but since it SAYS for SMG's it's probably HOT.
You might want to talk to a cartridge collector about that, It may be worth a few boxes of NEW ammo.
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9mm ammo that is marked for SMG is not hotter. Instead, it is made with a slower burning powder for use in SMGs that typically have longer barrels than pistols do. While there may be more blast when using 9mm SMG ammo in a pistol, it is still okay to use it in a pistol.
As noted, the box in the picture is probably worth more to a collector than a shooter. While it would be fun to shoot it and see how it goes, the money side of things dictate it needs a good home with a kindly collector.
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Are there any lot numbers?
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9mm ammo that is marked for SMG is not hotter. Instead, it is made with a slower burning powder for use in SMGs that typically have longer barrels than pistols do. While there may be more blast when using 9mm SMG ammo in a pistol, it is still okay to use it in a pistol.
As noted, the box in the picture is probably worth more to a collector than a shooter. While it would be fun to shoot it and see how it goes, the money side of things dictate it needs a good home with a kindly collector.
You think it might still go off after 50 years?
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That would be ify at best . Alooong time ago I had a .30 cal and bought some WWII stuff and some went off but most did not.
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I have shot many boxes of "old" ammo. As long as it was stored properly, (ie: not in a very humid atmosphere,) it should go bang!
Just make sure you pay attention and listen to sound it makes, you should be fine. %90 of the old stuff I've shot goes bang!
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You think it might still go off after 50 years?
If stored properly, yes. Based on the picture, there is no evident corrosion or the dreaded "green scale" around the primers. But its the owners call. Had some .45 milsurp ball ammo and Vietnam 5.56 stuff worked fine, but just for range time now.
I would email these guys a pic: cartridgecollectors.org , before I fired any, Who knows?
I have 28 year old Argentine Mauser 7.65mm x 53, 187 gr BTFMJ. rounds and shoot about 200 rds a year. Never a FTF. Accurate as the shooter is, and kicks like a mule. Its stored (all my ammo is), dessicant is replaced twice a year, in milsurp ammo cans. Stored indoors not in the garage or attic, or basement.
Good Luck with it. Could be worth more NOT to shoot it?
Just my .02 cents(pre-tax).
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My guess would be Luger?
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Thanks for the input guys. Tom, I think you are right on the money with export manufacture to the Brits, as we didn't have anything 9mm in the field so long ago. No lot numbers visible, but they might have "disappeared" from the interior of the box.
Will contact cartridgecollectors.org and see what they say. Since I seem to have misplaced my Sten, I'll leave it to the next owner as to probability of functioning.
Thanks, Mac.
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My 2ยข ... As long as it looks "fresh" and is not corroded, it should be fine to shoot (wait ... do I need a lawyer and a legal disclaimer to say that?). I was shooting some old steel case military ammo from WW2 that was hard to get out of my SW 625's cylinder but it shot fine.
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I sent off an inquiry to the cartridge collectors association, and confirmed Tom Bogan's response. Nailed it, Big Guy. ;)
FROM:
TonyE Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:34 am
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 357
Location: London
This is WW2 period contract ammunition for Great Britain. Millions of rounds were supplied by Winchester (and Western)for use in Sten and Lanchester SMGs.
Winchester also supplied Britain with 9mm Proof rounds with tinned cases during this period.
Regards
TonyE
_________________
Collector of British military small arms ammo
--END--
Thanks again for the DRTV brain power. The next president should make the forum a Cabinet level position. Mac.
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I sent off an inquiry to the cartridge collectors association, and confirmed Tom Bogan's response. Nailed it, Big Guy. ;)
Thanks again for the DRTV brain power. The next president should make the forum a Cabinet level position. Mac.
We might all end up working for Obama ;D
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Not for long! He might even learn something of value.
Mac.
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Glad to see you got such a quick response DDMack, they seem to be a knowledgeable bunch. I emailed them once some time back regarding rounds my grandfather used to get for his 7.65mm Mauser, they were 212gr. Armor Piercing rounds. :o
They sent me a picture, and a brief history of Belgium manufacturing those rounds, AND I CANT buy them anymore. :'(
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/armorpiercing.jpg)
I just wanted a few, ya' know for those days when I'm clinging to my Bible and after Obama creates the Four Horseman of the Apocolypse riding down my street. :o
Since tombogan nailed the trivia question, we could have a DRTV trivia contest, and win prizes, take trips with MB,....nevermind. :P
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I sent off an inquiry to the cartridge collectors association, and confirmed Tom Bogan's response. Nailed it, Big Guy. ;)
FROM:
TonyE Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:34 am
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 357
Location: London
This is WW2 period contract ammunition for Great Britain. Millions of rounds were supplied by Winchester (and Western)for use in Sten and Lanchester SMGs.
Winchester also supplied Britain with 9mm Proof rounds with tinned cases during this period.
Regards
TonyE
_________________
Collector of British military small arms ammo
--END--
Thanks again for the DRTV brain power. The next president should make the forum a Cabinet level position. Mac.
Glad to see it worked out for you. I couldn't think of any one else we were making 9mm ammo for.
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How about this? Identify the source of ammunition of the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cause it to go BOOM!! If we are suffering higher prices due to military need, they certainly should too.
Mac.
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Have you tried contacting Winchester to see if someone there can identify it? Is there a serial number on the box? Any writing on the case that might help them?
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All figured out KW GM. Thanks though.
Mac.
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Winchester delivered this type of ammunition to Finland as well to be used in their Suomi M 31 SMG during Winter War.
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Winchester delivered this type of ammunition to Finland as well to be used in their Suomi M 31 SMG during Winter War.
The FIRST 1 ? In the last one they wound up stuck on Germany's side and got shafted for it.
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Everybody just assumed that this 9mm ammo was meant for export to GB for use in stenguns, but according to wikipedia the M3 "greasegun" was chambered for the 9mm parabellum as well.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun
Could it be possible that this batch may have been meant for that weapon?
Ocin
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Good info search Ocin. Never thought to Wiki it. Still, according to the piece, even the M3s in 9mm went to the Brits, so export is the logical answer. Never new there were any made in 9mm. There must be lots of this ammo around, especially in GB, as no purchase offers have come in.
I fired an M3 years ago and agree with most who had the experience. Butt ugly but very small and reliable. I was pretty scrawny then and the gun push-pulled me back and forth, following the movement of the heavy bolt as it fired.
Thanks, Mac.
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How about this? Identify the source of ammunition of the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cause it to go BOOM!! If we are suffering higher prices due to military need, they certainly should too.
Mac.
I saw this video a while ago and figured it would fit your query. You will have to suffer with the wanna be OBL (in garb at least) and his lefty leanings but well worth the veiw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M&feature=related)
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At the end He does say that when you are there you NEED to look the part. Over all I thought it was well worth watching. You have no reason to feel like your avatar ;D ( Your not a jackass ;D )
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This is a video of the M Grease Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umcQP01K_DY&feature=related
(how many forum members does it take to.... ;D)
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"I saw this video a while ago and figured it would fit your query. You will have to suffer with the wanna be OBL (in garb at least) and his lefty leanings but well worth the veiw."
That is a good place to try my theory. Send in Bloomberg. The war is won!
Thanks, Mac.
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This ammo is at LEAST 50 years old. There is no date on the headstamp. Does anyone know with which gun this would have been used?
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj211/DMACK_2008/9mm20smc20ammo.jpg)
Thanks, Mac.
M3A1 "grease gun" sub-machineguns could be converted for 9x19mm Luger ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, and installing the magazine adaptor to use British STEN magazines. This ammo could very well be made for it.