The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: rocco102 on June 28, 2008, 08:08:00 PM
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Can anyone give me some advise on what type of ammo i should get for my Ruger LCP. I have extreme shock ammo and reading in other forums is not good. I would like some ammo that has penetration and some stopping power. I have been reading good stuff on federal 90 gr Jhp hydra shok ammo. 8)
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hallow points.....
high velocity......
high energy......
high weight retention.
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Although I don't own a LCP, I do own and enjoy my P3AT. After 200+/- rounds of everything, to break in, for carry ,102 gr Rem Golden Sabers, 90 gr Cor-Bon, 90 gr Speer Gold-Dot, All these also perform flawlessly in my Walther PPK/S, and P3AT.
Don't know how the LCP shoots these rounds, but Winchester, Federal, are very consistent. If you have a reliable LCP, try different rounds. One that works
With the price of ammo, its hard to say "this one" over "that one", but splitting hairs over fps or ft. lbs is not the point.
Shot placement with practice is more important.
Good Luck
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"Stopping Power" and auto handguns don't go together.
There are many ways to describe the inability of a handgun to reliably stop anything, but I prefer a passage from Andy Stanford's book, "Handguns are bullshit."
Throw in some hollow points and train to hit vital areas. Imagine a triangle created from the nipples to the throat.
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I'm using Corbon DPX in mine. Seems to work just fine. I believe those to be the best balance between penetration and "expansion" (petals). I've also ran WWB flat points. Haven't had a jam yet. :)
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"Stopping Power" and auto handguns don't go together.
There are many ways to describe the inability of a handgun to reliably stop anything, but I prefer a passage from Andy Stanford's book, "Handguns are bullshit."
Throw in some hollow points and train to hit vital areas. Imagine a triangle created from the nipples to the throat.
So I wonder if this joke of an author would like to volunteer to see if a auto handgun has stopping power.
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So I wonder if this joke of an author would like to volunteer to see if a auto handgun has stopping power.
Down Range indeed.
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"Stopping Power" and auto handguns don't go together.
There are many ways to describe the inability of a handgun to reliably stop anything, but I prefer a passage from Andy Stanford's book, "Handguns are bullshit."
Throw in some hollow points and train to hit vital areas. Imagine a triangle created from the nipples to the throat.
MB quoted someone (it's late and I can't remember who) who said the only reason to use a handgun is to fight your way to the rifle - which you should never have put down in the first place.
On the other hand, you use what you have, and in the US, you can't walk around in a tutu and pumps with an M4 slung over your back like in Israel. :D
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If the wife lets me get the S&W .460, that shoots the .454 Casull and the .45 LC, would that be considered "adequate" stopping power?
How about the .500?
Just curious as to the:" There are many ways to describe the inability of a handgun to reliably stop anything, but I prefer a passage from Andy Stanford's book, "Handguns are bullshit." mindset... as "inability?"
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Oh and one more thing for Mr. Andy Stanford:
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/upyourarse.jpg)
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MB quoted someone (it's late and I can't remember who) who said the only reason to use a handgun is to fight your way to the rifle - which you should never have put down in the first place.
On the other hand, you use what you have, and in the US, you can't walk around in a tutu and pumps with an M4 slung over your back like in Israel. :D
Gotta love the girls of the IDF... :o ;D
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Corbon DPX in mine...interested in the new LCP-specific round coming from...sorry...they swore me to secrecy! I'll let you know how they work...
mb
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Corbon DPX in mine...interested in the new LCP-specific round coming from...sorry...they swore me to secrecy! I'll let you know how they work...
mb
Uh,... MB for us lowly P3AT owners, (that enjoy them immensely), will that fancy LCP ammo perform in the another "pocket pistol?"
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I picked up a Glock 21SF from a Gunsmith a few weeks ago and he told me at the time I shouid strongly consider using Corbon DPX for defense. He stated that it's documented kill percentage in hunting is the highest. I should have asked him where he found this documentation. However, I am researching this....slowly..I have a lot of 230gr JHP on hand....
I spoke to a friend who does much rifle shooting and hunting about Corbon. He said that it tends to over penetrate and copper fouling it excessive.
Well, I have an LCP on order and I'd be looking for as much penetration as this small round can provide. Perhaps the Corbon would have an edge. It's expansion seems to be excelent also. I doubt copper fouling would be excessive at pistol velocities.
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Winchester Silver Tips in my .380. Best penetration and expansion from self testing.
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Corbon DPX in mine...interested in the new LCP-specific round coming from...sorry...they swore me to secrecy! I'll let you know how they work...
mb
"...they" They? I smell conspiracy. Methinks there are industry insiders keeping information from the public until "they" can control "the vertical and the horizontal" ...aka Twilight Zone. Out with it I say ! ! ! Who are "they"?
C'mon...we won't tell. ;D
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"Stopping Power" and auto handguns don't go together.
There are many ways to describe the inability of a handgun to reliably stop anything, but I prefer a passage from Andy Stanford's book, "Handguns are bullshit."
Throw in some hollow points and train to hit vital areas. Imagine a triangle created from the nipples to the throat.
+1 being concerned about feeding in these small pistols with a steep feed ramp, along with other inherent problems with some hollow points Im gonna buy the new Federal 124 gr. EFMJ for my PF9, and PT140 Im still gonna shoot Gold dots in my 1911 however.
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+1 being concerned about feeding in these small pistols with a steep feed ramp, along with other inherent problems with some hollow points Im gonna buy the new Federal 124 gr. EFMJ for my PF9, and PT140 Im still gonna shoot Gold dots in my 1911 however.
Not to come off as an ass but what do his comment and yours share that you go +1?
He says to use hollow points because and aim for vital areas and you are worried about feed problems with hollow points.
Then again this ignorant fool belives a auto handgun has no stopping power.
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"Stopping Power" and auto handguns don't go together.
There are many ways to describe the inability of a handgun to reliably stop anything, but I prefer a passage from Andy Stanford's book, "Handguns are bullshit."
Throw in some hollow points and train to hit vital areas. Imagine a triangle created from the nipples to the throat.
I guess millions of dead people failed to read that passage before they were shot with a handgun.
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I guess millions of dead people failed to read that passage before they were shot with a handgun.
The guy that wrote the book is a very good example of a true idiot.
I would bet the same ignorant fella is one of those people who say " Oh it's only a .22 " with a little grin on his face. Yet I could drop an unwanted guest with less than five rounds out of my 10/22.
Obviously this fool thinks everyone who died from gun wounds were shot with a 30.06 or shotguns.
I am sure he considers stoping power different than lethality but still even my .380 would end any efforts of harm to me or my family without even empting the magazine.
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Corbon-DPX in mine also. Some will swear by FMJ for penetration.
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Corbon-DPX in mine also. Some will swear by FMJ for penetration.
Same here! All of the reports that I have read have stated that the DPX were the all around best round for the .380 personal defense ammo. Good Velocities and Devastating destruction with there copper pedal design. I remember reading that when shot into Ballistics Gel the Corbon DPX expanded to a .70cal and penetrated almost to the FBI standards as far as inches go. They also passed the denim test. I shot a raccoon in the head with one at 20' and WOW :o!!!!! Messy! jb This was out of a Bersa .380 Thunder....
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Same here! All of the reports that I have read have stated that the DPX were the all around best round for the .380 personal defense ammo. Good Velocities and Devastating destruction with there copper pedal design. I remember reading that when shot into Ballistics Gel the Corbon DPX expanded to a .70cal and penetrated almost to the FBI standards as far as inches go. They also passed the denim test. I shot a raccoon in the head with one at 20' and WOW :o!!!!! Messy! jb This was out of a Bersa .380 Thunder....
Thats nice, but as they say, "45 doesn't shrink."
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I gotta say my LCP is pretty close to a "permanent partner," my summer gun of choice. I even asked Ruger to sell me a couple of extra mags.
SilverTips were my go-to .380s before the Cor-Bons, and I still wouldn't feel undergunned with 'em.
I would also like to point out that the one and only time I pointed a .380 (a Colt Mustang) at a large major-caliber dude's head, he didn't make even a single wise-ass crack about "mouseguns." He just asked what he needed to do over the next few seconds that would allow him to continue breathing. Nor did I have any doubt that a SilverTip in the roof of said miscreant's mouth would solve all his general and my very specific problem(s). Since that incident, I've been much less concerned about the whole mousegun argument.
Michael B
PS: You didn't hear it from me, but "Hornady."
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I would also like to point out that the one and only time I pointed a .380 (a Colt Mustang) at a large major-caliber dude's head, he didn't make even a single wise-ass crack about "mouseguns." He just asked what he needed to do over the next few seconds that would allow him to continue breathing. Nor did I have any doubt that a SilverTip in the roof of said miscreant's mouth would solve all his general and my very specific problem(s). Since that incident, I've been much less concerned about the whole mousegun argument.
Michael B
I must say, that having been on the receiving end of a pointed, loaded gun (he was a dope-head and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and unarmed), I didn't care what size it was either. The term 'mousegun' never entered into my thoughts at the time. All I knew was it was a loaded gun and I was facing the 'business end'. Luckily, I talked him into putting it down.
I have carried Cor-Bon (it is my go-to ammo) in a Colt .380 mini-gov't model and did not feel under-gunned. But I would have rather had my .45.
I am looking at the LCP, so I'm glad to see that you give it a thumbs up.
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I gotta say my LCP is pretty close to a "permanent partner," my summer gun of choice. I even asked Ruger to sell me a couple of extra mags.
SilverTips were my go-to .380s before the Cor-Bons, and I still wouldn't feel undergunned with 'em.
I would also like to point out that the one and only time I pointed a .380 (a Colt Mustang) at a large major-caliber dude's head, he didn't make even a single wise-ass crack about "mouseguns." He just asked what he needed to do over the next few seconds that would allow him to continue breathing. Nor did I have any doubt that a SilverTip in the roof of said miscreant's mouth would solve all his general and my very specific problem(s). Since that incident, I've been much less concerned about the whole mousegun argument.
Michael B
PS: You didn't hear it from me, but "Hornady."
Thats great!
When it comes to ammo selection, lets not forget about weight retention, people.
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run Buffalo Bore's 100gr. lead @ 1150 fps and 90 gr. Gold Dot HP through my Sig 232 with a 3.7" barrel. The Ruger has a shorter barrel but the velocity should still be better than all the other ammo out there.
Good shootin' to ya. dgang
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run Buffalo Bore's 100gr. lead @ 1150 fps and 90 gr. Gold Dot HP through my Sig 232 with a 3.7" barrel. The Ruger has a shorter barrel but the velocity should still be better than all the other ammo out there.
Good shootin' to ya. dgang
I'm looking at my LCP manual as I type this - "No .380 Auto manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or not known to function in these pistols." I'm verbatim posting that statement in context with Buffalo Bore .380 ammo for a simple reason. SAAMI has NO +P standard listed for .380 ammo, and Buffalo Bore advertises their .380 loads as +P. Being as how they (BB) don't include any pressure info on the loads, I'd be interested to find out if they exceed the SAAMI spec, or if BB is loading to the pressure limit and calling it +P for marketing reasons. Anyone with more insight here?
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To Fatman : I realize that SAAMI does not recognize a +P loading for the .380 ACP. However they state that 21500 psi is the max pressure allowed. According to the owner of BB his loads meet Saami pressure. After firing a few rounds through my Chrony I found the velocity is as stated and there was no indication of over pressure on the casings. dgang
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Hornady's TAP FPD in .380 is being sold on Cabela's website. Is that it?
Yeah, I saw that in my search too, BAC. Since Hornady doesn't have TAP .380 listed on their own site, and Cabela's does have it listed, I'd say it's probable. Question is, is it a pre-order item that Hornady is planning on debuting through Cabela's or is it in stock? :)
dgang - Thanks for the info. I see your SIG has the same silly chamber loaded port as the LCP, that's where I was concerned about a cartridge swelling. I've an email into BB for a bit, asking pretty much what I put above. I noted BB isn't a SAAMI member, and neither is Magtech. Magtech is equally as confusing as here http://www.magtechammunition.com/sitepages/pid103.php?productId=470<emplate=details&templateId=14&pageId=103&search=details (http://www.magtechammunition.com/sitepages/pid103.php?productId=470<emplate=details&templateId=14&pageId=103&search=details) they state under "Quality" they meet SAAMI for this 380 +P round, but a note near the bottom says +P is loaded to a higher pressure... bleh.
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It's been 3 days now with no response from BB on the pressures in their 380 ACP line. Being a former QA manager, I am always leery of a company labeling something for a non-existent (not published) spec or making a claim of product performance spun off a test minimum/maximum that does not apply to the the intended use of the product.
For the ammo, you could assume that if SAAMI were to publish a +P spec for 380, it would fall in line with the percentage over standard pressure for those cartridges with a +P standard and load it to that theoretical spec and stretch a claim saying you meet SAAMI - or being a smart businessman you could realize the existing 380 ammo is loaded well below the maximum 21500 psi and load yours to the max. Calling it +P could be nothing more than label to point this out.
BB site does not have a blanket statemet anywhere that all their ammo meets published SAAMI standards. It does specifically have a SAAMI statment for two loads.
Would either Michael or the Halloways be willing to take a stab at this and get a definitive statement from BB?
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There's a * on the Cabelas site for the 380 TAP FPD indicating a Cabelas Exclusive.
Overload in CO
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I'm not hugely worried about any ammo currently produced in the United States in any gun currently produced in the United States. That said, I would strongly suggest keeping BB "+P" to a minimum. In the absence of a .380+P spec from SAAMI, it makes sense to err on the side of caution.
Two points here:
1) In truth, all pocket pistols are always about shot placement, regardless of the ammo. Whether .38 Special, .380, .32, even .22LR from something like a TPH, we ABSOLUTELY have to rely on shot placement for them to deliver the mail. I'm not sure that kicking an anemic round up a 100 fps or so changes anything, and it makes the NECESSARY second and third shot that much harder to place. I know for a fact that I can precisely place multiple shots with the LCP with either Cor-Bon or Winchester SliverTips, and that knowledge is more valuable to me than a bump in fps.
2) With pocket pistols, we need to practice with ball. Better yet, we need to find an equivalent gun in .22LR and practice with that. Pocket pistols are unpleasant to shoot...DUH...and it's far too easy to generate a raft of bad habits. I know there's a whole school of thought about "only shooting what you carry," but that runs smack against the fact that training with .22LR or even AirSoft yileds huge gains...heck, remember that Tasuya Sakai won the Steel Challenge by spending a year in Japan shooting only AirSoft. SWAT teams and Special Forces routinely train with sims. We should take a page with what works. I'd love an LCP in .22LR...I can;t say Ruger is enthused about the project!
Michael B
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Good points, Michael.
I finally found something from Ruger's Ken Jorgensen in Concealed Carry Handguns annual magazine regarding ammo for the LCP. "Because SAAMI has not established parameters on a +P round for .380ACP ammunition, we can't recommend it." The author continues on (not quoted) Use of +P loads isn't a safety issue, but it will accelerate wear on the little pistol.
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+p also could theoretically cause enough damage to instantly render the gun a permanent paper weight.
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I don't see anything like that w/ a search. Talk to me, BAC! Where did you see it? :)
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Never mind. I found the new .380 round.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/88_mm_AT_shell_Wings_over_Wine_Country_2007.JPG/800px-88_mm_AT_shell_Wings_over_Wine_Country_2007.JPG)
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As a followup, I ordered two boxes of .380 TAP, and received them within a week. I've run them through my 3AT without any problems. They feel slightly better (milder?) than the Federal Hydra-Shoks I also took and shot. Both were snappier than the Fiocchi FMJ I also brought. The 15 year old with me liked the TAP the best.
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Thanks! Now to see if I even get that show. With a bunch of kids in the house, I don't even get the HBO package. Why pay for what you can't use?
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As a followup, I ordered two boxes of .380 TAP, and received them within a week. I've run them through my 3AT without any problems. They feel slightly better (milder?) than the Federal Hydra-Shoks I also took and shot. Both were snappier than the Fiocchi FMJ I also brought. The 15 year old with me liked the TAP the best.
I haven't used TAP in the LCP, but I did use .45 TAP recently and liked it a lot.
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I haven't used TAP in the LCP, but I did use .45 TAP recently and liked it a lot.
Don't use .45 TAP in your LCP.
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Don't use .45 TAP in your LCP.
If I did, LCP would stand for Little Carbonized Pieces.
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Don't use .45 TAP in your LCP.
.45 ammo does not work in .380 chambers.
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.45 ammo does not work in .380 chambers.
with a bigger hammer, it wll ;D
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Well, I finally decided what ammo to get when I finally get my LCP but now I need to know about extra mags. Are they available, if so, who has them? I think I read where someone uses Kel-Tec .380 mags and they work - any other input on this.
Sorry for the thread drift.
Richard
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Well, I finally decided what ammo to get when I finally get my LCP but now I need to know about extra mags. Are they available, if so, who has them? I think I read where someone uses Kel-Tec .380 mags and they work - any other input on this.
Sorry for the thread drift.
Richard
Get real LCP mags from Midway. I know most Kel parts are not compatible with the LCP and I think the Kel mags have some issue or other with the release on the Ruger.
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Thanks fatman, didn't know they were available.
Richard
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http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=763005 (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=763005)
On sale til the 30th @ $21.99 ;) I may get another myself.
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Probably not the solution you are looking for when you experience feeding problems with certain ammo, but here is a post over at Pawpaw you might find interesting:
http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com/2008/09/ruger-lcp.html
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Probably not the solution you are looking for when you experience feeding problems with certain ammo, but here is a post over at Pawpaw you might find interesting:
http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com/2008/09/ruger-lcp.html
El Capitan said...
It does sorta beg the question as to whether or not they have a factory crimp die at the Remington ammo factory...
I wonder if the chamber is too tight, even if it's only .0001". It may be worth taking a casting and measuring it.
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Here's a link to a discussion of the new Hornady .380 round
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3064366 (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3064366)
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Found this little comment:
After telling him no one here has heard of it, he checked his DVR. He said it is called "Hornady critical defense ammo" and the segment showed Dick Metcalf firing what appeared to be a LCP into ballistic gell with some fabric and down in front.
He said they got about 10 inches penatration about a 6 inch wound channel aprox. 2 inches wide and a perfect mushroom.
I have searched the innerwebs best as I could, I find no mention of it.
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Probably not the solution you are looking for when you experience feeding problems with certain ammo, but here is a post over at Pawpaw you might find interesting:
http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com/2008/09/ruger-lcp.html
Very interesting, Marshal.,,,Thanks for that link.
I've had feeding problems with specific ammo in the past and never thought of checking tolerances on store-bought ammo.
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Another slight drift...hope to get my LCP soon since I've been on a waiting list for a while. Has anyone tried Blazer Aluminum ammo in their LCP? Need something besides $20+ WWB to break it in. Any other suggestions?
TIA
Richard