The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: 2HOW on July 08, 2008, 05:47:06 PM
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http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-339-0-0-0--.html
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Cue the twilight zone (or X files) music.
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I turned if off within a minute when the narrator said something about being the first time that an “ordinary fire” ever collapsed a building. Had they put their bangers and mash down for a wee moment to do some research, they would find that statement to be patently false.
If it wasn’t for something called evidence and scientific facts, the WTC7 “conspiracy theories” might fly in more places than just Damascus, Gaza and Rosie O’Donnell’s living room.
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Ron...
I'm not going to once again..get into a pissing match with you where this is concerned.... but what do you THINK made the perfectly good building which only had fire, fall in a perfect nice neat little pile of dusty rubble.. ?
If you would have watched the whole thing.. you might have actually taken your blinders off and saw what was there. And listened to professionals talk.
(That is MY observation)
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Ron...
I'm not going to once again..get into a pissing match with you where this is concerned.... but what do you THINK made the perfectly good building which only had fire, fall in a perfect nice neat little pile of dusty rubble.. ?
If you would have watched the whole thing.. you might have actually taken your blinders off and saw what was there. And listened to professionals talk.
(That is MY observation)
Sorry Marshal'ette, Not long afterward there was a News story about people being pissed that the Fire Dept just let Tower 7 burn when it Might have been saved if the fire had not been allowed to progress so far. Besides, buildings that I have seen usually go inward because the Elevators and stuff act as a chimney, consuming the center first, creating a vacuum, and allowing the out sides to fall inward. Look at the Marine Barracks in Beirut, all the Embassies bombed, They come down like pancakes. I put as much faith in the "George Bush did 9-11" theory as I do B-Ho's "Change". Not much. It would not have stayed secret
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All you have to do is use your head. Forget about the physics and engineering aspect of it. Just ask yourself this question...What tangible effect did the falling of one lousy buiding in NYC have on the world? Zero. Crap burns, falls and explodes in NYC all the time.
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Ron...
I'm not going to once again..get into a pissing match with you where this is concerned.... but what do you THINK made the perfectly good building which only had fire, fall in a perfect nice neat little pile of dusty rubble.. ?
If you would have watched the whole thing.. you might have actually taken your blinders off and saw what was there. And listened to professionals talk.
(That is MY observation)
My dear, my blinders are off and we have never been nor will we ever be in a pissing match on the internet. We can save that until after I grill you and Marshall a steak with onions and shrooms! ;D
The last time this topic came up, you had mentioned that you had a little reading to catch up on and would try to get to the links regarding the scientific evidence on the various “conspiracy theories” that I provided. I will assume from your comment that you have not quite got caught up yet.
Short synopsis. This is like watching a “magic act” on TV. They are showing you what they want you to see. There is no scientific evidence to a “conspiracy theory”. The scientific evidence is very clear as to how and why Tower 7 collapsed. It was due to damage from the North Tower. Given the design structure of that building it collapsed as the laws of physics would dictate.
What this video and the “conspiracy theorist” don’t show you are the OTHER VIDEOS that were taken from other news agencies. For instance, the immense damage to the north side of the building or the ten foot wide hole that went through the center of the roof. No mention of the fires much less expert testimony from Frankenstein on why “Fire bad”. More specifically, to the building in Spain that fell to fire. Now add 20 something oil filled generators (Google them and you can see the damn near nuclear reaction they have to fire) and things go volatile. Yes, fires can and have brought down buildings besides WTC7.
To the notion of demolition via explosives, blowing up a building via controlled demolition takes a lot of thermite or whatever wonderful boom-stuff they would use. No evidence of such. None. No one saw anyone rigging the building (which is not something anyone could conceal) and no one saw any of the vast amounts of explosive materials they would have had to use pre or post WTC7’s fall. Videos did show the “puffs” of air escaping and some stated that this was proof of explosives being used because they looked like “squib charges” were being detonated. Not so. What they saw was the air escaping. Each floor had something like an acre of air and it has to go out when the building comes down. My guess is that this video didn’t mention any of the firefighter testimony about this or the “hurricane effect” of the air coming down the stairs did they? Again, given the damage that WTC7 took from hit on WTC’s North Tower, it fell as it should have. Studies from Purdue, MIT and Cambridge all came to the same conclusions that the buildings were weakened by the intense fires and that is why they collapsed.
Let forget the scientific evidence and digest some common sense (wait, need to grab my extra heavy duty blinders 8) ).
Does anyone REALLY think our government could pull something like this off? This is a serious WTF moment. Forget why or motive for bringing down WTC7. Could something of this scale be pulled off by our government?!? The planning and the execution would have been enormous in terms of time, people and materials. Too many people and too many loose ends (evidence). Too many idiots in government to pull this off along with too many good people in government that would allow anyone to pull this off.
Marshal'ette, these videos simply ignore the scientific facts to the collapse.
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If you are going to read about the supposed conspiracy you should also read the debunking stuff too. If you become educated on both sides you are better able to make your own, informed decision. In March 2005 Popular Mechanics published a good article on several of the conspiracy theories and offers a thoughtful and detailed alternative based on engineering and scientific principles that the conspiracy theorists rarely use.
March 2005 Popular Mechanics - Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report
Popular Mechanics examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11.
WTC 7 Collapse
Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."
(http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/911-tower-collapse.jpg)
Fire Storm: WTC 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed Twin Towers. Damaged by falling debris, the building then endures a fire that rages for hours. Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)
FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
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WatchmanUSA:
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
WatchmanUSA ... nice info. This PM article and studies done by some universities do a pretty good job of explaining what we don't see from the "conspiracy theory" videos.
Little added footnote … Fire burning at just 300º can weaken the steel beams as much as 20%. A hotter fire with no fire protection (sealed/coated beams) & no fire fighting (internal sprinklers or external such as FDNY) can take any "perfectly good building" down. As I mentioned earlier, this happened to a similar skyscraper in Spain and that building was not hit with any of the shit-storm of debris that WTC7 was hit with when the North Tower fell.
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I'm outnumbered on this one.. and unlike Tab ( who has more stamina than I have).. I won't beat a dead horse to try to make him get up.. ;D
You are right Ron. I still have the information from you that I need to read.. and I will.. I promise.. And maybe it will answer some questions .. but there is logic on both sides of the spectrum here.
I am also smart enough to hear that what you say makes sense.. but so does things that the interviewed "common" people say that they heard and seen..and what I see with my own eyes. Like I have said before.. I have talked to "kinda sorta" insiders of Washington. I am not the only one ( by a long shot) that feels that something is amiss.... and I just continue to have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when I watch these things. I see what I see..and even though the general census is that the government can't keep secrets...I still have an ugly feeling that we haven't been told anywhere near the truth. ( like what else is new with our "need to know" government .. ::) ) I am not saying that our government was alone in this.. and I am not saying that the al-Qaeda were not involved. I really don't know what to think to be honest.. But I DO know what I feel ..and I wouldn't trust anything that came out of our governments mouth. If they told me banana's were yellow..I'd start checking to see if I was color blind.
They are the most vile form of corruption on the face of the planet.. and none of us will ever know what happened. So it is probably best if I just forget it and concentrate on taking care of my family in the best way I know how when all of their corruptions finally explode like a volcano...and we are left to salvage what we can of our world.
Jeepers.. I am kinda sounding like a doomsday fanatic.. didn't mean to go off the deep end there. LOL
It is that I just get so exhausted and worn out trying to deal with all the corruption and back door cons and government BS that is thrown in our face every minute of every day..so I wig out occasionally..So I don't really trust anything anymore. (other than my circle of friends and family..
( and I wonder sometimes about some of my friends.)(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/chuckle.gif)
ahhhhhhhhh take me awayyyyyy Calgon......
(http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/PDS/PDS050/LS014616.jpg)
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Please tell me that is not you in that picture... I try to keep my thoughts pure when I'm on this site ;D
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Well Marshal has been known to get crazy with a camera... and I Do have a tiger claw bathtub.................. :-\
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Marshal'ette,
Of course you can believe whatever you wish to believe. Also, it is always good to question and challenge the truth. In something as large as the 9/11 tragedy there are just too many issues, too many points of view and too many agendas.
I hope that you are speaking in hyperbole when you say you can't trust anyone but a close circle of friends. You seem like too nice of a person to really have that world view.
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First...
Please tell me that is not you in that picture... I try to keep my thoughts pure when I'm on this site ;D
It's not me.. LOL
Second.....
Marshal'ette,
I hope that you are speaking in hyperbole when you say you can't trust anyone but a close circle of friends. You seem like too nice of a person to really have that world view.
I am VERY VERY VERY VERY soft hearted..and waaaayyy too trusting..
But I really am changing on the trust thing...and becoming more wary. I have been bit in the ass so many times I have lost count on believing what people say.
I have learned to use my own instincts and rely on my gut feeling..So to say I don't trust ANYONE ..is going out on a limb..
but where the government is concerned ..and big business is concerned?
Yep... I don't trust them any further than I could throw them.
That doesn't make any less female ..or "soft" or "nice".. It just makes me sharper, more internally wary. more acutely aware, and on my toes more than I used to be when I thought everyone could be trusted to be, say and act like they said they were.
I guess I am one of those" you get what you see" kind of people..
Not many are like that anymore.
It's sad........
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.......... I have been bit in the ass so many times I have lost count ...........
That's your fault for having such a cute ass! (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-019.gif)
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Marshal'ette
When you say you don't trust govt or big business I humbly suggest the following...There is no such thing as either ! Yup. There are only PEOPLE that happen to work at the same address.
After a good many years thinking that same way, I came to the conclusion that what I was really seeing was how much PEOPLE suck. Yes there are wonderful folks out there. Lots of them. But there are also LOTS of just plain lousy dirt bags. I've worked in govt and big business. There was nothing in either that was unique. Only the amount of power that some PEOPLE had at the time. When you run into some pain in the arse at Motor Vehicles you just as easily could have been talking to another MV employee who would have treated you nicely. Same goes for BATF, FBI etc. You may not believe that, but I believe it to be true. I worked in LE. I saw guys (like myself) that detested the macho, treat the civilian as sh*t attitude. That is why I left. I worked beside guys that were working on their PHd's in Hebrew Literature (no jokes). Thoughtful, kind, gentle. They had simply taken a civil service exam for a job. I also worked beside alcoholic, beligerent, nasty bastards that were drunk on the job most of the time. It was a pure sampling of humanity. So keep smiling. Life is good. Ignore as much as you can the negative side of life and rejoice in the beauty and absolute wonder of this world that the good lord made !
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That's your fault for having such a cute ass! (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-019.gif)
WHAT??
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/thud.gif)
What does that have to do with trust or 9-11...??
**shaking my head, confused**
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1776 Rebel??~~~~~~~~~~~
You are absolutely right.. all the way around.
Thanks for saying what I KNEW but just didn't get the words out right.
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/hug.gif)
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WHAT??
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/thud.gif)
What does that have to do with trust or 9-11...??
**shaking my head, confused**
Absolutely nothing! I was talking about cute behinds! ;D
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Marshal’ette … I’m just really glad you didn’t say that was Marshall in the tub!
A wise woman once said on another thread, “Let’s call a pig’s ass pork”. I agree with that sentiment for these “conspiracy theories” or any theories on what happened to bring those buildings down. Call it as the evidence shows … not what to what a documentary shows.
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Ron! Enough already.. I am tired.. (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/dramaqueen.gif)
I have, on the stove cooking ...fresh green beans /bacon,
new potatoes ready to be browned in butter, fresh cucumbers and onions in vinegar,
homemade garlic bread with real butter ready to go into the oven
and fresh strawberry's with real whipped cream for dessert.
Would you kindly stop with the 9-11 stuff and go get the steaks ready and start the charcoal.. Pleeeeeassee..
Supper will be ready to put on the table when you get the steaks done.. :-*
~~~
((How is THAT for being the boss!~~~)) ;) ;D
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Hmmmm ... that sounds good!
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Since you didn't come through with the charcoaled steaks..
I fried a platter of round steak and made some gravy to go with it too.
It was deeeelicious. (http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/tasty.gif)
And I was just kidding you about the 9-11 ..
I am going to have to take the time to try to keep an open mind ..let down my guard just a teeny bit and watch and read all that you sent to me.
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Since you didn't come through with the charcoaled steaks..
I fried a platter of round steak and made some gravy to go with it too.
It was deeeelicious. (http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/tasty.gif)
And I was just kidding you about the 9-11 ..
I am going to have to take the time to try to keep an open mind ..let down my guard just a teeny bit and watch and read all that you sent to me.
Sorry I missed dinner!
Don't worry about your guard (unless Haz in your zip code) ... just be yourself.
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http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-339-0-0-0--.html
2HOW,
That was a nice hit and run. ;D
Please give us your insite.
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You are right about one thing, but not the way you may think. The US gov. was to blame for 9-11 in this respect. The US authorities have consistently denied terrorist involvement in an extremely long string of incidents in the US, The Kahane assassination by a Muslim , Jewish tourists shot on the observation deck of the Empire State building, Bus load of Jewish tourists shot up in NY. There were many others where the Muslim perp had connections to terrorist groups, but these are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Finally in frustration the terrorists flew BIG planes into the WTC and said, lets see if they suspect our involvement now !
Then Osama went on world wide media saying "Look what my guys did."
And yet there are people like that a$$hole Ward Churchill, and Rosie O'Donut that say "It's Bush's fault". of course these are the same mental midgets who wanted W impeached because the people in New Orleals were to stupid to build ABOVE the water level, and because our imported food is grown in fresh shit and is now making people sick. The fact that this sort of things were happening before Bush was BORN, never mind elected, does not matter to these people who's only goal is to destroy OUR America.
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DAMN wish I had said that o well been thinking it for years. Does that count ?
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I gotta chime in on this one and say that it would take a lot of people a long time to rig a lot of explosives to bring the building down and it would have to have been hidden pretty well and a lot of people would have to have turned their heads/closed their eyes during inspections/gen. maintenance to miss it!
Just my .02
Richard
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Didn't read the whole thread but I can expose the real culprits. It was the gunman on the grassy knoll, in conjunction with the reanimated corpse of Elvis, along with Jimmy Hoffa, working in concert with genetically engineered guards from area 51, who were under the control of George W. via mind control device! Oh yeah... and the reverse vampires. Can't forget them! ::)
Swoop
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Didn't read the whole thread but I can expose the real culprits. It was the gunman on the grassy knoll, in conjunction with the reanimated corpse of Elvis, along with Jimmy Hoffa, working in concert with genetically engineered guards from area 51, who were under the control of George W. via mind control device! Oh yeah... and the reverse vampires. Can't forget them! ::)
Swoop
Oh damn, why'd you have to go and ruin the new X-Files movie for me Swoop? ;) ;D ;D
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Didn't mean to hit and run, just was a very compelling story which keeps getting weirder. I wouldn't put it past any Gov. to pull this off , wouldn't be hard considering the contents of # 7. Lets face it our government has betrayed us in just about every other way, whats 1 building. I doubt it happened ,but it is a story that makes you go HMMMM.
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Didn't mean to hit and run, just was a very compelling story which keeps getting weirder. I wouldn't put it past any Gov. to pull this off , wouldn't be hard considering the contents of # 7. Lets face it our government has betrayed us in just about every other way, whats 1 building. I doubt it happened ,but it is a story that makes you go HMMMM.
Hmmm? Not so much. But then again, I am anally retentive … not paranoid.
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Didn't mean to hit and run, just was a very compelling story which keeps getting weirder. I wouldn't put it past any Gov. to pull this off , wouldn't be hard considering the contents of # 7. Lets face it our government has betrayed us in just about every other way, whats 1 building. I doubt it happened ,but it is a story that makes you go HMMMM.
I just saw the link and then nothing. Most people here will post a link and then comment. It just seemed to be a bit of a conversation grenade: kinda toss and go. I was just curious.
Conspiracy's are tantilizing. To change course a bit, I was a big believer in the "Grassy Knoll" version of the Kennedy assasination. Especially how he got elected in the first place (dead folks in Chicago) and some sort of Mob involvment. Then I happened on to a show on Discovery about the magic bullet etc. I had just seen the History Channel's answer to all the 9/11 conspiracies so I stopped and was suprised to find what I did. They were able to recreate the evidence, magic bullet and all. I was a bit suprised actually expecting the oppisite. I believe it all goes back to Occam's/Halon's Razor view of conspiracies.
I blame the X-files.
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A friend of mine went to the school book repository and looked down from where the assassin was supposed to have been. Despite all the news hype about an "impossible" shot he said it was very doable for the average guy. I have faith in this guy, I've trained with him and work with him...he said it was not an overly difficult shot so that's where I'm at.
I'll have to check on how many floors up that was and get in a building here in town and look out at distance and see for myself from a like position....but I think I'm in the it-can-be-done camp.
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A friend of mine went to the school book repository and looked down from where the assassin was supposed to have been. Despite all the news hype about an "impossible" shot he said it was very doable for the average guy. I have faith in this guy, I've trained with him and work with him...he said it was not an overly difficult shot so that's where I'm at.
I'll have to check on how many floors up that was and get in a building here in town and look out at distance and see for myself from a like position....but I think I'm in the it-can-be-done camp.
Third floor, and if I remember correctly less than 150 yards.
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That's what I was thinking, Tom. Third floor sorta sicks in my head and I was thinking closer to 100 yards.
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That's what I was thinking, Tom. Third floor sorta sicks in my head and I was thinking closer to 100 yards.
I think I read somewhere that it was 110 yards but I'm not sure enough to quote that distance.
I was on a game site (www.urbanterror.com) where some one had mapped out Dealey Plaza in detail. It did not seem like a difficult shot.
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I remember an expert saying that those shots could not of been fired with that rifle in that amount of time. And your right Bro, it was a conversation bomb ;)
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I remember an expert saying that those shots could not of been fired with that rifle in that amount of time. And your right Bro, it was a conversation bomb ;)
Blew out 4 pages so far ;D The thing that had folks saying it could not be done was the fact of the rifle being bolt action. During the original investigation that was tested, the guy they had try to do it had a couple seconds left over if I remember correctly.I could not do it but some one who had a lot of practice with bolt actions would probably not have to much trouble.
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Secret Service agent Winston Lawson retraces that day's presidential motorcade route, pointing out key locations and "hotspots"- demonstrating the lengths the Secret Service went to protect JFK. Then, turning Dealey Plaza into a laboratory, the team goes underground to examine the outlandish theory that other gunmen fired at the president from storm drains in the Plaza. Finally, join Oswald on the run as experts re-enact his every move in the frantic moments after the shooting.
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First, I don't believe that the tower 7 collapse was the result of any kind of conspiracy. If you have ever watched a TV program or read anything about implosion demolition you'll learn that a huge amount of engineering, planning and preperation goes into the demolition. Internal structual members are removed or strategically cut and weakened so they give in a controlled manner during the implosion. This preperation takes weeks. Heat also changes the metalurgy of the metal componets. Think about heat treating. In a controlled manner it strenthens steel. If not done properly disaster can result. When I was a kid way back when I'd camp out with my friend on the back of their family farm. We would routinely "burn" our tin cans in the camp fire. The cans would essetially turn in to paper thin shells that we would stir into the ashes. I have also ruined a good meal on a charcoal grill fire when the grease from the meat flared up and melted the heavy duty aluminim foil the food was in. Neither of these fires were probably as hot as the fire at tower 7. Granted, the metal in these examples was not as heavy as the steel in tower 7.
Second, as far as the single bullet theroy goes, the 6.5 mm bullets as in the 6.5x52 Carcano or the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser are legandary for their penetrating ability. The relatively long and heavy bullets belie their paper ballistics. The 6.5x52 Cacano bullet that wounded Kennedy and Connally was a 160 grain full metal jacket bullet. Most theories I'v read that try to debunk the single bullet theroy assume that the bullet always travel a straight path and does not deflect or yaw at all. Bullets can be easilly deflected by twigs, clothing, notebooks in a shirt pocket. car keys etc. It was on the news yesterday that a kid in the Detroit area was shot in the mouth and was saved by his braces, but he did lose his front teeth. I had a friend a few years ago that shot a deer with a 6.5mm 140 grain Swedish Mauser. It was a quartering shot and the deer dropped in it's tracks. When he walked over to claim his buck, he was surprised to find a second deer about 10 feet behind the first that had also dropped in it's tracks. The bullet had gone completely through both deer. It looked as if the bullet went through the second deer sideways as it had been deflected.
Third, I've heard some say that one of the first U.S. victims of Middle East terrorist was Bobby Kennedy by Sirhan Sirhan. Now that is one conspiracy I might be able to believe in.
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Even the Govt admits that Sirhan Sirhan had his brain messed with as opposed to BEING messed up like Hinkley.
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I forgot to mention that Oswald was ex Marine and had at one time shot at the sharpshooter qualification level. The three shots were taken at175, 240, and 265 feet. Easily doable at a slow moving taget moving basically away from the shooter.
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I forgot to mention that Oswald was ex Marine and had at one time shot at the sharpshooter qualification level. The three shots were taken at175, 240, and 265 feet. Easily doable at a slow moving taget moving basically away from the shooter.
Charles Whitman was a Marine as well. (the Texas Tower sniper) those two are pointed to with pride by Marksmanship Instructors, because they made difficult shots. BUT, Oswald shot Sharpshooter with a semi Auto M - 1 Garand , or carbine, maybe both. The rifle that ALLEGEDLY killed Kennedy was a bolt action. He would have been significantly slower, he was not a hunter, or country boy, the majority of his firearms experience was at the range, as a Signals intelligence guy he did not spend great amounts of time shooting, but when he did , it was with a semi auto. So he would have been much slower with a bolt gun.
As for "Easily doable"? Shooting down at about 45 degrees at a moving target 150 - 250 yards away, wind, glare. not so easy
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Tom, I probably shoudn't have said EASILY doable. Oswald did use the M-1 semi auto Garand rifle as opposed to a bolt action, but he aslo qualified at 200 yards. It is believed the shots in Dallas were 175, 240, and 265 FEET, all under 100 yards. Not sure what the downward angle was. I've heard figures from 22 degrees to 65 degrees. I'm not a scholar of the Kennedy assasination, but I have read some. The biggest problem is trying to sort out known facts from all the other stuff that has been repeated over the years. I just personnaly believe the shots were within Oswalds capability.
Now Charles Joseph Whitman in the Texas Tower was a shooter. I did read a book on him some time ago. If I remember correctly he had a foot locker full of weapons and gear that he dragged up there with him. He killed several people getting to the observation deck as well as his wife and mother the night before. If I remember correctly his main weapon during the spree from the tower was a 6mm and one shot was around 600 yards.
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Tom, I probably shoudn't have said EASILY doable. Oswald did use the M-1 semi auto Garand rifle as opposed to a bolt action, but he aslo qualified at 200 yards. It is believed the shots in Dallas were 175, 240, and 265 FEET, all under 100 yards. Not sure what the downward angle was. I've heard figures from 22 degrees to 65 degrees. I'm not a scholar of the Kennedy assasination, but I have read some. The biggest problem is trying to sort out known facts from all the other stuff that has been repeated over the years. I just personnaly believe the shots were within Oswalds capability.
Now Charles Joseph Whitman in the Texas Tower was a shooter. I did read a book on him some time ago. If I remember correctly he had a foot locker full of weapons and gear that he dragged up there with him. He killed several people getting to the observation deck as well as his wife and mother the night before. If I remember correctly his main weapon during the spree from the tower was a 6mm and one shot was around 600 yards.
FEET ? Just goes to show, sometimes we see what we expect not whats really there ;D I would have sworn your post said YARDS. When I checked back, no, it says feet. Actually if Oswald qualified on a standard Known distance range (most likely as he was in a support type MOS) He fired out to 500 yards. I'm not really disagreeing with you, I only read a couple books about the assassination years ago, I'm just trying to play devils advocate. My own opinion is that JFK was killed by either the Mafia or Cubans hijacking another anti Castro attempt.
Whitman, yes, Good shooting, out to 600 yards. And Police had nothing to do with taking him, it was "Good ole Boys" who had their deer and Varmint rifles in their vehicles. The gave covering fire for ambulance crews and THEY were the ones who killed him. The first COPS up the Tower reported he was already dead, shot by one of the civilians.
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Country boy can survive. 8)