The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: RTFM on July 29, 2008, 06:53:21 AM
-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25865277
Fire roars toward 2,000 homes near Yosemite
MIDPINES, Calif. - A fast-spreading fire burning near an entrance to Yosemite National Park forced the evacuations of 170 homes and caused officials to cut power to the park.
The fire grew from about 1 1/2 square miles to 25 square miles on Saturday, and was threatening about 2,000 homes, said Daniel Berlant, a spokesman for the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
Officials told NBC News early Sunday that 18,000 acres had burned and that authorities were struggling to determine the extent of structural damage in the area because the fire was "out of control".
About 900 firefighters battled the blaze that burned on both sides of a steep, rugged canyon along the Merced River.
Most of the evacuated homes are in the town of Midpines, located along Highway 140, the thoroughfare that leads to the west entrance of Yosemite National Park.
Target shooting blamed
State fire spokeswoman Karen Guillemin said the cause of the fire, dubbed the Telegraph Fire, "is definitely target shooting," but would not elaborate.
-
I heard this on NPR this morning and couldn't figure out how that could happen, unless they were firing incindiaries or blowing stuff up. If you are "target shooting" theoretically you would have a berm behind the targets, etc....hot lead MAYBE, but it sounds a little fishy.
Maybe the target shooters were smoking cigarettes and grilling hotdogs.
-
The fire grew from about 1 1/2 square miles to 25 square miles on Saturday, and was threatening about 2,000 homes, said Daniel Berlant, a spokesman for the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
Officials told NBC News early Sunday that 18,000 acres had burned and that authorities were struggling to determine the extent of structural damage in the area because the fire was "out of control".
Forest fires explained here:
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/nine-myths-about-forest-fires/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/nine-myths-about-forest-fires/)
Long read but worth the trip. Conveniently summarzied into a few paragraphs at the beginning for the time challenged.
-
I suspect we will never hear the whole story and that the statement that "target shooters started the fire" will take on a life of it's own as gospel truth. >:(
-
What with people trying to be able to take guns into parks, it stands to reason that gun totin, bible clingin rednecks are to blame for a fire at Yosemite.
-
That part of CA is all scrub land ( think hilly aferican savana) Last year we had the wetest year on record, this year( just finished) one of the dryest.
Hot lead would not start a fire, but a tracer( which are illegal in CA) ,a steel cored bullet or muzzle flash could start a fire.
-
Witch hunt
-
Witch hunt
maybe, maybe not.
-
maybe, maybe not.
Nuance.
-
MSNBC and the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection will never let the facts get in the way of a good story. I know of many wild fires which have been started by those stupid catalytic converters we are required to put on our cars and SUV's, when parked over dry grass.
-
Short of putting the muzzle right at the ground. Well I just don't see how. But I've been wrong before
-
I have seen the burning patch from a muzzle loader start grass fires. Never managed to start a fire with anything else.
Grizzle Bear
-
Maybe they were using Tannerite targets? Although I'm sure something this much fun has got to be illegal in Kalifornia.
http://www.tannerite.com/she_exploding_targets.html (http://www.tannerite.com/she_exploding_targets.html)
-
Target shooting blamed
State fire spokeswoman Karen Guillemin said the cause of the fire, dubbed the Telegraph Fire, "is definitely target shooting," but would not elaborate.
See, now you guys have gone and done it, you got me all cranked up about trees. (again!)
To blame target shooters or any group for the inevitable consequence of government idiocy is just about a perfect reflection of contemporary societal lunacy.
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die/)
-
I heard this on NPR this morning and couldn't figure out how that could happen, unless they were firing incindiaries or blowing stuff up. If you are "target shooting" theoretically you would have a berm behind the targets, etc....hot lead MAYBE, but it sounds a little fishy.
Maybe the target shooters were smoking cigarettes and grilling hotdogs.
Right. Probably by some wieners.
-
There is a possibly of causing fires with some ammunition. The following is from the CMP website specifically about surplus military ammo. It does not refer to tracer ammo (which can be one way to start a fire) but BALL ammo.
FAQ: Does the bullet attract a magnet?
A: Some Ranges in the western states will not allow the use of any ammo that attracts a magnet in an effort to prevent forest or brush fires caused by sparks. Because we frequently are asked if the bullet attracts a magnet - we provide the information as part of our description to reduce the number of calls and emails we would otherwise receive. The bullet does not have a steel jacket, but there is some ferrous metal in the gilding metal.
-
Tried some google searching to find more details on how target shooters started the fire. All I was able to find was that it apparently started on private property and they believe they know who fired the shot that started the fire. Apparently it was accidental and negligence was not envolved. It did not look like any criminal charges would be filed. I still could not find out how the fire started from shooting.
-
Let me see here. Is Yosemite in CA? Check. There's your problem. Damn target shooters! JohnJacobH has it right with the whole forest for the trees bit. The lefties in CA are victims of their own policies. Hoisted on their own petards. Damn you Irony!
-
After Heller, ANY negative "gun" stories are going to be front page stories, just to remind the "sheeple", how bad those guns can be, even to the point of Smokey The Bear, "Only you (shooters), can prevent forest fires. Oh and the anti pollution owl will be brought back out "Give a hoot, and don't shoot"
-
See, now you guys have gone and done it, you got me all cranked up about trees. (again!)
To blame target shooters or any group for the inevitable consequence of government idiocy is just about a perfect reflection of contemporary societal lunacy.
So help me I can not stop myself! You want to prevent forest fires? Shred the dingdong darn forest!!!!
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die-part-ii/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die-part-ii/)
-
Got to agree with John. Forests are fire bombs waiting to happen. We could take all the debris and turn it into something useful like heating pellets or freak'n bark mulch. But no ... too many tree huggers think that will offend Ma' Nature. Clean up the forest or quit bitching about the fires that are product of the natural waste that is piling up.
-
Target shooting blamed
State fire spokeswoman Karen Guillemin said the cause of the fire, dubbed the Telegraph Fire, "is definitely target shooting," but would not elaborate.
You know, the more I think about this, the more aggravated I get. This calls for a Jim Zumboesque mail campaign to this woman's office.
We, the People, CANNOT let Them, Kakistocrats define issues around their political agenda especially when so much information exists to
correct the record.
Ask this lady WHY firebreak lines have been relabeled "logging roads" and closed? Or pick any of these articles or find your own and bombard her office with email and snail mail and phone calls and demand the truth about forest management.
In a government where no boondoggle is ever left behind, the ONE thing we cannot buy is tree shredding equipment. In a society that thinks the old ways are best, the ONE thing we cannot do is restore forests to their historic densities and condition.
It is THEIR incompetent policies that KILL Bambi and Thumper and and snail darters and destroy wildlife habitat, NOT target shooting. Not now, not ever!
Good grief, four months of blogging and I have become a David Codrea clone.
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/nine-myths-about-forest-fires/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/nine-myths-about-forest-fires/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/forest-fire-myths-part-ii-the-short-version/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/forest-fire-myths-part-ii-the-short-version/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/forest-fire-myths-part-iii-another-view/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/forest-fire-myths-part-iii-another-view/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die-part-iii-cedareaters/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/trees-are-evil-they-deserve-to-die-part-iii-cedareaters/)
-
After Heller, ANY negative "gun" stories are going to be front page stories, just to remind the "sheeple", how bad those guns can be, even to the point of Smokey The Bear, "Only you (shooters), can prevent forest fires. Oh and the anti pollution owl will be brought back out "Give a hoot, and don't shoot"
LOL!!!! Very Funny!!!!
-
Hello All,
It's hard enough to start a fire with flint and steel when you want to.
Let along using lead and base rock. No matter how fast the lead going.
(ask any caveman, they tell ya)
The news anti guns folks want John Doe Public to believe that lie.
Because the antis guns and animal want to shut down the whole forest to us gunners.
They know that John D Public VOTE.
Anyway, everyone know this. But the none gunner will believe any on the News at Eleven about guns...
The BLM is on board too. With this lead and rock BS. They have posted sign in and around the shoot areas in Utah.
Just waiting for a fire. So, they shut down the state to shooting...
Fire fighter don't go into shooting areas to fight fire...
They wait until the move out until it's safe to fight it.
They don't to have a live round heat up and go off next to them.
I think we all better call the News folks and ask them " Just how does work? Lead and base rock starting fire??"
Lets see a demo please?
You can shoot a tracer into gasoline tank and not start a fire.... G Whiz
I have the video to prove it!
My two cents
Blank
-
Hello All,
It's hard enough to start a fire with flint and steel when you want to.
Let along using lead and base rock. No matter how fast the lead going.
(ask any caveman, they tell ya)
The news anti guns folks want John Doe Public to believe that lie.
Because the antis guns and animal want to shut down the whole forest to us gunners.
They know that John D Public VOTE.
Anyway, everyone know this. But the none gunner will believe any on the News at Eleven about guns...
The BLM is on board too. With this lead and rock BS. They have posted sign in and around the shoot areas in Utah.
Just waiting for a fire. So, they shut down the state to shooting...
Fire fighter don't go into shooting areas to fight fire...
They wait until the move out until it's safe to fight it.
They don't to have a live round heat up and go off next to them.
I think we all better call the News folks and ask them " Just how does work? Lead and base rock starting fire??"
Lets see a demo please?
You can shoot a tracer into gasoline tank and not start a fire.... G Whiz
I have the video to prove it!
My two cents
Blank
I don't believe that bullets hitting rocks will start a fire, but the Air Force has loads of video that says your claim about tracer not igniting gas is BS. I, and many other Army and Marine Vets on this site have spent PLENTY of time putting out grass fires ignited by tracer.
-
I don't believe that bullets hitting rocks will start a fire, but the Air Force has loads of video that says your claim about tracer not igniting gas is BS. I, and many other Army and Marine Vets on this site have spent PLENTY of time putting out grass fires ignited by tracer.
Amen to that brother, we had a doozie at Fort Jackson back in 1983... fun.... but darn scarry at the same time.
Ah to be young again.......
-
In the Coasties I got a chance to fire some API At an old boat that was being sunk to build a reef... Let me say this, that boat was striped of anything that would burn, yet it still was lit up by that m2.
-
I don't believe that bullets hitting rocks will start a fire, but the Air Force has loads of video that says your claim about tracer not igniting gas is BS. I, and many other Army and Marine Vets on this site have spent PLENTY of time putting out grass fires ignited by tracer.
I have personally seen one discarded cigarette start a brush fire in a somewhat dry (no recent rain) but moist (Spring) setting.
Let's talk drought. Having lived through drought conditions here in ND, I have seen the result of a combine hitting a rock and and the resulting small spark starting an 800 acre fire. Drought conditions are not normal, and they create absolute tinderboxes. It got so every morning when I got up on my ranch I scanned the horizon in 360 degrees, and didn't stop until I went to bed or it got dark.
Conditions have to be right - the combine alone won't start a fire, for example, (although a hot muffler on a pickup will) the rock has to be in the right place to hit the swather head, and the tinder needs to be right there. But in a hard drought, as in northern CA right now, it is not all that hard. The tree huggers also made it just that much easier, and that much more likely.
-
( don't believe that bullets hitting rocks will start a fire, but the Air Force has loads of video that says your claim about tracer not igniting gas is BS. I, and many other Army and Marine Vets on this site have spent PLENTY of time putting out grass fires ignited by tracer.)
Sorry, I am not in the Air Force. I did work for the forest forest service. fought fires too.
But, I do still have the video of tracers hitting the gas tank and nothing happen but nice hole.
I am pretty sure if you use a 50 cal with tracers all kinds of things will happen.
Do you think it was the Air Force that did those fires in CA? LOL
Or just a bone head with match?
Thanks for your replay.
I new I could get you going on that one...
Have a fun day!!
Blank
-
( don't believe that bullets hitting rocks will start a fire, but the Air Force has loads of video that says your claim about tracer not igniting gas is BS. I, and many other Army and Marine Vets on this site have spent PLENTY of time putting out grass fires ignited by tracer.)
Sorry, I am not in the Air Force. I did work for the forest forest service. fought fires too.
But, I do still have the video of tracers hitting the gas tank and nothing happen but nice hole.
I am pretty sure if you use a 50 cal with tracers all kinds of things will happen.
Do you think it was the Air Force that did those fires in CA? LOL
Or just a bone head with match?
Thanks for your replay.
I new I could get you going on that one...
Have a fun day!!
Blank
Air force, Navy and Marine Corps have MILES of gun camera video that say other wise. Also the WWI and early WWII aircraft were armed with .30 cal. so you can't blame it on .50's doing strange things.
-
( don't believe that bullets hitting rocks will start a fire, but the Air Force has loads of video that says your claim about tracer not igniting gas is BS. I, and many other Army and Marine Vets on this site have spent PLENTY of time putting out grass fires ignited by tracer.)
Sorry, I am not in the Air Force. I did work for the forest forest service. fought fires too.
But, I do still have the video of tracers hitting the gas tank and nothing happen but nice hole.
I am pretty sure if you use a 50 cal with tracers all kinds of things will happen.
Do you think it was the Air Force that did those fires in CA? LOL
Or just a bone head with match?
Thanks for your replay.
I new I could get you going on that one...
Have a fun day!!
Blank
Hopefully you're not referring to the Mythbuster's video. Their "proofs" often leave a lot to be desired, IMHO.
Tracer are often banned from ranges as a "just in case" measure to make sure they don't start fires. Is that proof? No, just wisdom.
-
Tracer are often banned from ranges as a "just in case" measure to make sure they don't start fires. Is that proof? No, just wisdom.
Fire suppression and fuel load are the villains in the modern "forest fire" problem.
Throughout the history of the planet from it's earliest beginnings forests have burned and until the 20th Century this was considered a good thing.
Forest fires start anywhere, all the time from just about any cause. It is the way God intended it to be.
If we do not break down the fuel load to managable levels, this "problem" will just get worse.
-
Remember the other leg of the fire triangle. Oxygen. If we could reduce the oxygen levels we would never have to worry about forest fires :)
-
Remember the other leg of the fire triangle. Oxygen. If we could reduce the oxygen levels we would never have to worry about forest fires :)
Somewhar hard to breathe then I would think :o
There is another option: remove the fuel from the fire triangle, hence: cut all the forests ;D
-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25865277
Target shooting blamed
State fire spokeswoman Karen Guillemin said the cause of the fire, dubbed the Telegraph Fire, "is definitely target shooting," but would not elaborate.
Ha! The earth is burning! It starts Forest Fires! Really!
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/forest-fire-myths-part-iv/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/forest-fire-myths-part-iv/)
-
Hopefully you're not referring to the Mythbuster's video. Their "proofs" often leave a lot to be desired, IMHO.
Tracer are often banned from ranges as a "just in case" measure to make sure they don't start fires. Is that proof? No, just wisdom.
No Mythbuster video here....
I don't remember the name of the video. But, I could dig up if it important.
I am sure everyone has seen it by now... It's one were the 2Nd Chance guy shoots him self while wearing a bullet Proof vest with .44 Mag. Then shoot some Bowling Pins.
They shoot tracesr at a gas tank with 50 cal.
Not until they rig a flame over the gas tank does it light up.
It's kind cool the watch if like to see what happen when you fire a round at stuff.
Blank
My botten line is.
When you hear the Meda say "The fire was started by target shooters in the area"
Call then up or email them. Ask "Just how does that work?"
Other wise we will be losing our pulbic lands to shooting for ever!!
Don't let the B****** win.
-
No Mythbuster video here....
I don't remember the name of the video. But, I could dig up if it important.
I am sure everyone has seen it by now... It's one were the 2Nd Chance guy shoots him self while wearing a bullet Proof vest with .44 Mag. Then shoot some Bowling Pins.
They shoot tracesr at a gas tank with 50 cal.
Not until they rig a flame over the gas tank does it light up.
It's kind cool the watch if like to see what happen when you fire a round at stuff.
Blank
My botten line is.
When you hear the Meda say "The fire was started by target shooters in the area"
Call then up or email them. Ask "Just how does that work?"
Other wise we will be losing our pulbic lands to shooting for ever!!
Don't let the B****** win.
I agree with you about the Media .
My comments about igniting gas with .30 and .50 cals is based on all thosegun camera shots of WWII aircraft of ALL nations being shot down in flames.
-
It's not the media, it's the forest service. Someone with a big audience needs to put them on the spot, to prove their comments.
-
I agree with you about the Media .
My comments about igniting gas with .30 and .50 cals is based on all thosegun camera shots of WWII aircraft of ALL nations being shot down in flames.
Have to remember with the gun camera video that usually the rounds hit the engine and the fuel lines spraying the fuel/oil in the engine compartment causing the fire not the ammo itself, even the tracers.