The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: jnevis on August 07, 2008, 02:54:12 PM
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I have nearly completed all of the requirements for a CCW permit in MD. All the paperwork is in and I need to figure out how much detail I need to show "good and substatial reason" to carry. I've poked around a few other site's forums on CCW in CA and MD and have got a couple ideas but I'd like to float them in front of the best bunch out there.
I work in EMS and mentioned the fact that not only do I occasionally get the areas loosers and the threat they pose thinking I might have drugs and such. Since there is typically not a police report done when Johnny Looser threatens the ambulance crew and the police come and keep an eye on him, what other documentation would I be able to show? We head into crappy neighborhoods. While I won't carry on the box, not practical, sometimes it could be useful.
As a firearms instructor and competitor, I carry pistols and such all over the area and they are worth just as much as the bank guy's cash deposits that can get a permit, especially to some thug. I sent up all the docements of that too. Again non-specific threat so no police report.
I sent up all the military records showing my involvement as military police but since I'm not doing it now does it even matter? Especially since it's from the other coast and a few years ago.
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Why would you have to justify a reason to carry? Is MD a 'may' issue state?
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NJ has similar wording on the CCW permit (which almost no one gets except for retired LEO). When the judge reviews it (yes, a judge reviews your "request" to carry the arms that are your constitutional right to bear) I've heard the judges have made comments like, "Hire a bodyguard".
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Congrats! In Md. The state doesn't have any reciprocity with NC CCW. and my wife's family is just outside Baltimore, gun laws are about as bad as Mass. and Ca.
Hope it didn't cost too much. I'm sure it was a lesson in patience.
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Why would you have to justify a reason to carry? Is MD a 'may' issue state?
I believe most of the New England states are "May Issue."
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I believe most of the New England states are "May Issue."
Md is about 500 miles south of New England. For those who didn't pay attention in school New England consists of Maine, (Shall issue) New Hampshire, (Shall issue) Vermont, (No permit required, only issued for use in other states) Massachushits, (May issue) Conneticut, (Don't know) Rhode Island, (Don't know).
Any thing south or west of the NY Conn state line IS NOT NEW ENGLAND.
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Congrats! In Md. The state doesn't have any reciprocity with NC CCW. and my wife's family is just outside Baltimore, gun laws are about as bad as Mass. and Ca.
Hope it didn't cost too much. I'm sure it was a lesson in patience.
Yes MD is "May issue" and they aren't exactly free but to this point the process has been relatively painless. The Trooper that did the interview said that I had more training and was more qualified than most of teh people that apply and get one. The problem is that I don't have any specific people that want to kill me so its pretty much over.
Here all this goes to the State Police and they review it before a board. Sure I could appeal if denied, but that probably won't happen, which I'm sure they've planned for. The process for appeals is more of a PITA than the application in the first place. First to the Troopers, then the Board, then actual court. No time or money for all that.
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Something about the "STATE" crawling up, down, and all around my a** to get a 2nd Amend. Const. Right.
What other "chutes and ladders" do I have to jump through?
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"good and substatial reason"
Because if you don't issue me a permit, then I am going to sue your asses all the way to the Supreme Court!
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Because if you don't issue me a permit, then I am going to sue your asses all the way to the Supreme Court!
I wish I had the time/money to do that but frankly, ain't gonna happen. Part of the state's plan too >:(
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Don't know what to tell ya, but maybe the NRA & NRA-ILA organization can help you with what to say and sue the State of MD? ??? Good luck and keep us posted of the outcome
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I used to live in PRoNJ, and they even gave me a hard time over getting a permit to just OWN a handgun. 30 days was the max they were allowed for the background check before you were just supposed to be given the permit. Time expired, I called, "What's your hurry?" was the response. When I inquired about CCW in 2001, you should have heard the disdain in the receptionists voice when she told me I needed a 'good and substantial reason'. PA is a much less sarcastic place to live.
Anyway, you still have hope - http://mlis.state.md.us/2008rs/billfile/hb0002.htm (http://mlis.state.md.us/2008rs/billfile/hb0002.htm) - that wording may eventually be lifted. This is how shall issue started in many states.
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Don't know what to tell ya, but maybe the NRA & NRA-ILA organization can help you with what to say and sue the State of MD? ??? Good luck and keep us posted of the outcome
Yeah you should definitely get in touch with the NRA and see how they think you should approach it.
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The Shall Issue bill has been around Annapolis a couple times since I came back here in 2004 and every time the bill never seems to leave commitee.
I hadn't pondered the NRA to back it up, figuring on the Shall Issue bill getting a little further along each time.
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Contacted the NRA and thier response was basically "Sorry, Heller doesn't help you and until the law changes nothing we can do."
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Spent the morning with the MSP Corporal that handles all the Permits. He was very open that they try to get people permits within the laws here. He basically told me I have a month to get lots of documentation that I have a side business as a firearms instructor to be considered or the application will be denied. He also made great pains to tell me that a denial isn't a bad thing if I were to apply again later on.
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Spent the morning with the MSP Corporal that handles all the Permits. He was very open that they try to get people permits within the laws here. He basically told me I have a month to get lots of documentation that I have a side business as a firearms instructor to be considered or the application will be denied. He also made great pains to tell me that a denial isn't a bad thing if I were to apply again later on.
WTF? ???
"Denial isn't a bad thing????" (I'm shaking my head).... "Good Grief"...
"Our Founding Fathers, having endured the tyranny of the British Empire, wanted to guarantee our God-given liberties. They devised our three branches of government and our system of checks and balances. But they were still concerned that the system could fail, and that we might someday face a new tyranny from our own government. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves, and that's why they gave us the Second Amendment."
Mike Huckabee
One of the smarter things he said.
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I think he meant being denied isn't held against you if you apply again. Assuming it wasn't because you're certifiable or a felon. ;)
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jnevis,
I will volunteer to threaten you if it will help. ;D An other option would be to move to a more 2A friendly state. Is an out-of-state permit a viable option? For what it is worth, FL is a great state. It gets a little hot and there are some hurricanes now and then, but we do have a good CCW permit and the castle doctrine. The more like minded folks that live here the better.
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Why would you have to justify a reason to carry? Is MD a 'may' issue state?
yes it is sadly i live it sucks
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Hi,
I am a Maryland resident also and I am very upset at the liberal ways of our court system. The only thing that bothers me about trying to get a CCW in Maryland is that if you were denied a CCW in Maryland, then you tried to get one in a neigboring state, I believe the first question asked on the application is " were you turned down in another state for CCW? " So if you don't think you have a good shot at actually getting it, be careful, because it may just hurt you everywhere else.
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Massachushits, (May issue) Conneticut, (Don't know) Rhode Island, (Don't know).
Connecticut is "May Issue", Rhode Island is "Shall Issue"
More info...Massachusetts is a "May Issue" for a CCW but they don't issue traditional concealed carry permits. They issue a "License to Carry A and B" and it is perfectly legal to open carry, though not adviseable. A class A license allows loaded carry of handguns with high capacity magazines (10 round max) and stored and locked shotguns and rifles with magazine capacity of 5-10 rounds. Class B licenses restrict loaded carry of anything and further restrict magazine capacity to 5 rounds. Yes, they're strict but the state leaves it up to the local police departments to authorize issuance. My town gives them out as if they are "Shall Issue"and I had mine in about a week.
If you live in or near Boston or Worcester, forget about it, your gonna have to beg. Springfield and west isn't a problem since Smith and Wesson is the largest employer in the area.
The big restrictions are in "WHAT" you can buy. If you like a limited selection of S&W, PARA, Ruger, Beretta, Kahr and a few SigSauer, there is some good choices. If you want a new Glock, Springfield, Colt? Forget about it!
I have a non-resident CCW in NH and sent in the paperwork last week for non-resident in CT and ME. All three were less money combined than what I had to fork over in my home state.
Tim
P.S. and the name is "TAX-A-TWOSHITS"..... ;D
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Connecticut is "May Issue", Rhode Island is "Shall Issue"
I have a non-resident CCW in NH and sent in the paperwork last week for non-resident in CT and ME. All three were less money combined than what I had to fork over in my home state.
Tim
P.S. and the name is "TAX-A-TWOSHITS"..... ;D
No reciprocation? FL CCWs have about 30 states that reciprocate with some provisions.
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No reciprocation? FL CCWs have about 30 states that reciprocate with some provisions.
MA doesn't recognize any border states so they don't recognize mine. I gotta apply and pay just like anyone else. NH was easy, CT should be as well because I lived there B4 and had a permit then. ME, not sure about and as previously mentioned, VT is the wild, wild west! Anyone can carry, completely unrestricted...
Eight or ten states recognize MA but none that border!
Rhode Island ain't no thang! I shoot down there at a sporting clays joint and they said for all the crap you go through in MA, your pretty much covered in RI though I don't carry there anyway. The laws in RI change with the wind.....
T
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After reading these last few posts, it appears states rights vs. federal law, has run amuck. Yes you can, no you can't, you can open carry, no you can;t carry concealed, reciprocity in over 30 states, or NONE!.
There's got to be a better way! It seems the "LEGAL" method of exercising a Constitutional Right is washed in mud when left to the states.
Considering its the law-abiding citizen getting the background checks, taking trips to the Sheriff's office, the courthouse, the bells, hoops, rings, circle jerks, oh,... and the $$$$, is ridiculous.
Why is this so complicated? I guess its political ideology..... Remember, the criminals don't have to go through any of this, because they don't care...... >:(
A gun in the hand, is better than a cop on the phone.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/gunandflag.jpg)
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After reading these last few posts, it appears states rights vs. federal law, has run amuck. Yes you can, no you can't, you can open carry, no you can;t carry concealed, reciprocity in over 30 states, or NONE!.
There's got to be a better way! It seems the "LEGAL" method of exercising a Constitutional Right is washed in mud when left to the states.
Considering its the law-abiding citizen getting the background checks, taking trips to the Sheriff's office, the courthouse, the bells, hoops, rings, circle jerks, oh,... and the $$$$, is ridiculous.
Why is this so complicated? I guess its political ideology..... Remember, the criminals don't have to go through any of this, because they don't care...... >:(
...and in some cases, they get the gun charges dropped because if they were to apply they in fact would be admitting they're breaking the law. Therefore, lawyers have successfully argued that amounts to self-incrimination and the criminal therefore does not have to apply. No joke.
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It's even more frustrating when you consider Massachusetts is one of the birthplaces of the fight against tyranny and oppression!
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It's the "And Bear" part of the 2nd. Amendment that just makes me frustrated with the "different?" interpretations these simple two words are twisted by state law.
I keep trying to fwd. this to politicians at my state level and the fed. level but they keep forgetting what our Founders said.
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington
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A "National CCW" would be the way to go.
One rule book, nationwide coverage...........
Oh, what?........
I was only dreaming?.......
Can I go back to sleep now?.........
It was such a NICE dream too............. :(
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A "National CCW" would be the way to go.
One rule book, nationwide coverage...........
Oh, what?........
I was only dreaming?.......
Can I go back to sleep now?.........
It was such a NICE dream too............. :(
This would actually be fun to watch. The whole states' rights and federalism would be interesting, but IMHO the only viable way this would work is the way DLs are handled now.
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As for the neighboring states, I have the FL and VA CCW but they are not valid in MD. Only a resident MD card is legal here, just like in CA. If I had a MD one it would cover me in other states but not the other way around. Pretty dumb.
The peperwork will die a slow death and I'll have to keep waiting until they pass the Shall Issue Bill that hits the legislature every year (Hell freezing over comes to mind) or I can move somewhere else (see earlier snow/ice). I'd love to move to AZ but it isn't happening any time soon.
The denial not meaning anything: The Trooper said they would only look at the original paperwork to see why it was denied and that if it wasn't for cause (felon, protective order ect) it would be filed with the new one as additional documentation not as a bad report.