The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: hollandm on August 07, 2008, 05:28:30 PM
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My grandson and I have been shooting 10/22s for the last few months. Now I would like to get a 22 pistol, no preferences except consider that my wife and I will be using it as well as my 10 year old grandson.
I would like any recommendations you might have, preferably not too expensive but reliable. Next would be a larger cal hand gun but that's later.
Thanks
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Are you looking for a semi-auto or a revolver?
Based on my reading between the lines (always dangerous) I would take it you are all fairly new to this and looking to ease into things. If that is the case I would say a Ruger Single-Six revolver. It is easily handled by most size hands, and simple and safe to operate by people of all experience levels.
If I miss read you I could be wrong on this advice, so will wait and watch.
Happy Shooting!
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I intentionally didn't state a preference to see what would be recommended. You are correct in assuming that we are relative novices.
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I'm rather fond of the Walther P22. I have a friend who has one and I plan on getting one this year for my girls to shoot at the indoor range this winter. They run about $300 in my area.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&categoryId=43804&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=43326&top_category=43326&training= (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&categoryId=43804&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=43326&top_category=43326&training=)
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The Single Six. EVERY one has to have at least one cowboy gun! Fun to shoot, easy to maintain, accurate, rugged, cool, .....what's not to like?
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Revolver: go with the Ruger single six, as stated above.
Semi: For small hands the Ruger Mark II has a smallish grip and is a solid gun.
My personal pick is the Browning Buckmark. I have one from back in the late 80's when they first came out and it still shoots like it did when new. The grip is similar in feel (IMO) to a 1911 and the controls are in the same places.
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(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/Rugers.jpg)
This is my group of Rugers that would serve you well:
At the top is "Single" A Single Six with cylinders for both .22 lr and .22 magnum;
The bottom is "Mark" A Mark III with a Buris red dot I use for bullseye;
In the middle are the twins Whoop and Ass A matched pair of New Vaqueros in .357 mag.
Enjoy!
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Ruger Single Six is a good gun. A friend of mine has one. Ruger MKII and Browning Buck Mark are fine guns. I have a Ruger MKII, and my uncle has a Browning. The Ruger is a pain to field strip and put back together right, though. Even after you've done it 30 times. I don't know how easy the browning is to strip. It would be hard to go wrong with either of those 3.
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The Ruger Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, and 22/45s are simple and easy to take down if you have a Speed Strip Kit from Majestic Arms installed. It only take a matter of seconds to unscrew the pin, and the bolt slides right out so you can clean the barrel from the breech end and not damage your rifling at the muzzle. http://www.majesticarms.com/id10.html
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I like all of the Rugers listed above. I also love the S&W 63, the older 4 inch version is best, but the new 5 is still great. I have a 9 shot Taurus 94 that is similar to the Smith and would recommend it also.
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Ruger single - six is what I started on and all three of my boys did also. Can't go wrong with any of the above choices. ;D
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Ruger Single Six is a good gun. A friend of mine has one. Ruger MKII and Browning Buck Mark are fine guns. I have a Ruger MKII, and my uncle has a Browning. The Ruger is a pain to field strip and put back together right, though. Even after you've done it 30 times. I don't know how easy the browning is to strip. It would be hard to go wrong with either of those 3.
The Browning is pretty easy to strip. Take two screws out of the top rib and the slide comes off in your hand. Take one screw out of the front of the frame and the barrel tips right off. This also allows you to interchange different barrel lengths. Spare barrels are available through Brownells and several custom makers.
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(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/Rugers.jpg)
In the middle are the twins Whoop and Ass A matched pair of New Vaqueros in .357 mag.
Enjoy!
Ah..named after old Uncle Jay.
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Jay,
Were you the one that picked those names for me?
I can't remember ???
Got one of those milestones coming soon, and I can't find my damn walker ... much less the keys to the gunroom :'(
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Yes, I believe Whoop and Ass were my choice.
Hey...does anyone know anything about the S&W 22A? They come with a 5.5" bull barrel.
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I have one. That is what I used for bullseye prior to buying the Mark III Target.
Mine is the two tone and not a bull, but still a nice gun. The only complaints I have are the mag release is in the middle front of the grip, and my extra flap would drop the mag once in a while; and it has a lite little plastic flap inside on the firing pin (I tried everything I could to not call it a do hickey or thing a majig) that I folded over when reassembling once. Not expensive, but seems cheap for a firearm. The only other issue is that it does not like Remington Thunderbolt ammo, but my Mark III and 10/22 don't either. Thank God for the Single-Six, because it will eat anything I stuff in it.
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Ok, looks like there is general agreement that for a revolver it's the Single Six. For a pistol either the Mark II/III or a Browning Buck Mark. I like the looks of the Mark II/III but the disassembly sounds painful.
Do any of these present size problems for an average size woman's hands?
Anything I should be careful about if getting a used one of either of these?
Gun show tomorrow!
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My wife shoots all of those, and my daughter started shooting a Ruger Mark II when she was 10. Hand size shouldn't be a problem.
Disassembly isn't all that bad. Occasionally, if it's been a long time, I'll refresh my memory with the manual. You can probably find some great prices on all of those choices. Have fun at the gun show!
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The only thing that could be a glitch with small hands is the target grips. The picture does not show it, but on the left side of my Mark III there is a ledge at the top of that grip that the thumb rests on ... DON'T get one with that and it will not be an issue. Other than that, my wife and kids at firearm safety shoot my Single-Six and S&W 22a (same basic size as Mark III) with not problem.
Have fun at the Show!!!
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I can echo an excellent recommendation for the Ruger Mark II/III, the Ruger Single Six and the Browning Buckmark. Stay away from the Sig Mosquito...they are "cheap" for a reason....
Yes Haz...mine has morphed into a POS after 100 rounds and no cleaning.
I would like to add if you can find an old Colt Scout in 22...they have really fine and slick actions.....to pick up one of those as a "good deal" used gun. I like them better than the Single Six. Also....the Ruger Bearcat is a fine 22.
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i am a huge fan of the ruger single six's... get one that has 22lr and 22 mag chambers.. everyonce in a while its fun to have the little bigger bang... but if ur looking at a semi auto 22 i would go with the walther p22... its a very comfortable and fun gun to shoot
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I have had a ruger mark II and a single six and both are fine guns but my walther p22 is much more fun to shoot due to its light weight and its similarity to a center fire pistol. The grip on the walther is small enough for a woman or child plus its a piece of cake to strip, clean and reassemble. It depends on what you want. If you want better accuracy go with one of the longer barreled rugers. If you want light weight and something that replicates a center fire pistol go with the walther. Plus the walther has the cool factor on its side. 8)
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Lots of great comments! I really appreciate them.
I've added the Walther P22 to the watch list.
Let's see what tomorrow brings.
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Ruger Single Six is a good gun. A friend of mine has one. Ruger MKII and Browning Buck Mark are fine guns. I have a Ruger MKII, and my uncle has a Browning. The Ruger is a pain to field strip and put back together right, though. Even after you've done it 30 times. I don't know how easy the browning is to strip. It would be hard to go wrong with either of those 3.
There it is in a nutshell. Close thread.
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There it is in a nutshell. Close thread.
No kiddin. The Ruger is tough to clean.
The Walther P22 (old model) is nice...wish I had one. Still some floating around.
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The Ruger Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, and 22/45s are simple and easy to take down if you have a Speed Strip Kit from Majestic Arms installed. It only take a matter of seconds to unscrew the pin, and the bolt slides right out so you can clean the barrel from the breech end and not damage your rifling at the muzzle. http://www.majesticarms.com/id10.html
Did everyone miss this on page one? Instead of taking 2 or 3 screws out of a Buckmark to get it apart, you take one screw out of the Ruger with the Speed Strip. I can do it a lot faster than I just typed this. I was hoping someone else who has one would back me up on that.
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Did everyone miss this on page one? Instead of taking 2 or 3 screws out of a Buckmark to get it apart, you take one screw out of the Ruger with the Speed Strip. I can do it a lot faster than I just typed this. I was hoping someone else who has one would back me up on that.
Kewl...did not know this. I'm thinking you like it a lot. How 'bout the barrels? Try a barrel yet?
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Kewl...did not know this. I'm thinking you like it a lot. How 'bout the barrels? Try a barrel yet?
I haven't tried any of those barrels but I really like the Speed-Strip kit. I ordered mine from Dino before he even started Majestic Arms. Back then it was just Custom by Dino, The Gun Shop, New York, New York. It does exactly what he said and it works just as well today as it did 10 years ago. When I mentioned it before, another forum member and I talked about it and he got one too. I think he likes it even more than I do!
I thought the grip on my 22/45 was too smooth and too small for my hand. I put a Hogue HandAll on it that was actually made for a Glock and it's textured and has finger grooves. http://www.getgrip.com/main/overview/handall.html That makes it almost impossible to field strip the pistol since the rubber grip is over top of the mainspring and latch. I installed the Speed-Strip and now it takes 10 seconds to get the bolt out instead of 10 minutes trying to slide the HandAll back off.
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I haven't tried any of those barrels but I really like the Speed-Strip kit. I ordered mine from Dino before he even started Majestic Arms. Back then it was just Custom by Dino, The Gun Shop, New York, New York. It does exactly what he said and it works just as well today as it did 10 years ago. When I mentioned it before, another forum member and I talked about it and he got one too. I think he likes it even more than I do!
I thought the grip on my 22/45 was too smooth and too small for my hand. I put a Hogue HandAll on it that was actually made for a Glock and it's textured and has finger grooves. http://www.getgrip.com/main/overview/handall.html That makes it almost impossible to field strip the pistol since the rubber grip is over top of the mainspring and latch. I installed the Speed-Strip and now it takes 10 seconds to get the bolt out instead of 10 minutes trying to slide the HandAll back off.
I could be wrong but I believe I read somewhere that even Ruger approves the speed strip
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I love the Ruger's, but at $45 for the speed strip kit, a $2 screwdriver and 2 extra minutes ain't a big issue when it comes to the Brownings.
Not trying to ruffle feathers...just an opinion....I like BOTH guns immensely so the kit would be a nice addition to someone who already owns a Ruger.
;D
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My eyesight and anti-mechanical curse drove me to consult with JumboFrank about the Ruger speed strip. Really saves me time in cleaning my .22/45. Thanks again Frank!
Mac.
ps. Love my Browning Nomad (bought new,1970).
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I have a Beretta Neos. I bought it because I've read the manuals for the Ruger and decided that I didn't want something that complicated. I love the toolless takedown of the Neos and I love the magazine release, which is located on the right side of the firearm, above and slightly behind the trigger, where your finger rests when you're not shooting. I've never had it accidently activate, but I've got less than 500 rounds through it.
I have a problem with my Neos though. I likes to jam during feeding. I've tried several different types and I want to try some Federal Automatch from Midway. That might fix it. I hope it's because it's a new gun and not because it's something I should have stayed away from.
I also have a Ruger Single Six, which does exactly what it was designed to do. It came with a .22 Mag cyclinder as well, but that cyclinder fits a little tighter and with less than 30 rounds through it, issues with the cyclinder timing occurred. I hope this will work itself out, because when I switched back to the .22lr cyclinder, it ran like a bunny.
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I have a Beretta Neos. I bought it because I've read the manuals for the Ruger and decided that I didn't want something that complicated. I love the toolless takedown of the Neos and I love the magazine release, which is located on the right side of the firearm, above and slightly behind the trigger, where your finger rests when you're not shooting. I've never had it accidently activate, but I've got less than 500 rounds through it.
I have a problem with my Neos though. I likes to jam during feeding. I've tried several different types and I want to try some Federal Automatch from Midway. That might fix it. I hope it's because it's a new gun and not because it's something I should have stayed away from.
I also have a Ruger Single Six, which does exactly what it was designed to do. It came with a .22 Mag cyclinder as well, but that cyclinder fits a little tighter and with less than 30 rounds through it, issues with the cyclinder timing occurred. I hope this will work itself out, because when I switched back to the .22lr cyclinder, it ran like a bunny.
Check the Neos magazine for play in the follower. If the follower can tip back it will feed the rounds at to steep an angle to chamber. I have this problem with a replacement mag I bought for my Buckmark.
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Check the Neos magazine for play in the follower. If the follower can tip back it will feed the rounds at to steep an angle to chamber. I have this problem with a replacement mag I bought for my Buckmark.
+1 on the magazines.
I bought some no-name cheap mags for my Buckmarks out of Sportsman's Guide. They would not feed properly. I got to checking and the mag body had a different recess at the front where the cartridge feeds out. Now I spend the extra $'s for the Browning mags. They function flawlessly.
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Back from the gun show with prices:
MK III Bul 4" $250
MK III Bull 5.5" $260
MK III Bull Fluted 5.5" $280
Buck Mark 5.5" $290
P22 3.4" $309
I've decided on the pistol instead of the revolver. The best single six was $325.
So here I am, decision time. Grandson thinks the P22 is the one.
I like the MK III Fluted but then I think of the cleaning problems and if I have to spend another $50 to make it easy to clean......
Any final ideas before tomorrow?
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Back from the gun show with prices:
MK III Bul 4" $250
MK III Bull 5.5" $260
MK III Bull Fluted 5.5" $280
Buck Mark 5.5" $290
P22 3.4" $309
I've decided on the pistol instead of the revolver. The best single six was $325.
So here I am, decision time. Grandson thinks the P22 is the one.
I like the MK III Fluted but then I think of the cleaning problems and if I have to spend another $50 to make it easy to clean......
Any final ideas before tomorrow?
If you don't like the gun you will never shoot it enough to make any of the easy to clean.
Buy the one you like and you will shoot it more. If you like the Ruger you'll shoot it, and you'll learn to clean it. It isn't the easiest thing to do, but it is doable and learnable.
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your choices are a bit of the apples and oranges comparison. The Ruger and Browning are good entry level target pistols. The Buckmark tends to have a beeter trigger out of the box, but the Ruger has drop in internals available.
I like the Ruger disassembly better as the sight base is not removed and potentially returned slightly differently upon reassembly as the Buckmark design requires. The Ruger is not difficult to field strip or reassemble, but does require you to follow about 10 steps in the correct order clearly laid out in the owners manual.
The rake of the grip varies significantly between the Ruger and Browning. Pick them up and see where the sights are. That should tell you which one is best for your hand.
The Walther is a cheap, not inexpensive, plinker. The trigger will be bad. It is too small for my hand. It will not even compare with the accuracy of the other two. If you want to consider a DA/SA plinker I would suggest the CZ Kadet. A bit more pricey at $500 but it is a milled steel copy of the CZ75 and at least has the accuracy and class that the P22 lack...
Good Luck!
Addict
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I can echo an excellent recommendation for the Ruger Mark II/III, the Ruger Single Six and the Browning Buckmark. Stay away from the Sig Mosquito...they are "cheap" for a reason....
Yes Haz...mine has morphed into a POS after 100 rounds and no cleaning.
I would like to add if you can find an old Colt Scout in 22...they have really fine and slick actions.....to pick up one of those as a "good deal" used gun. I like them better than the Single Six. Also....the Ruger Bearcat is a fine 22.
Sorry to hear that Rastus. After the factory rebuild on mine, if you dunk it in oil iwill run a mag or two before it jams.
REAL FINE GUN! ::)
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If you go with the Single Six it will be the best investment you will ever make. In 50 years when your gandson is teaching his grandson it will still shoot like it was new with zero problems. A true family heirloom and the perfect gun to inroduce new shooters of all ages to the sport.
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M58 & Addict, thanks for the comments. Two real objectives here, keep the grandson interested in shooting and get the wife interested enough, so they are the top priorities not me. I was just talking to the grandson about the short barrel on the P22 and it might not be as accurate as the other two but there's probably more to it than that.
At the moment the ranking is MK III, Buck Mark and then the P22. We'll go back and handle the MK III and Buck Mark tomorrow.
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M58 & Addict, thanks for the comments. Two real objectives here, keep the grandson interested in shooting and get the wife interested enough, so they are the top priorities not me. I was just talking to the grandson about the short barrel on the P22 and it might not be as accurate as the other two but there's probably more to it than that.
At the moment the ranking is MK III, Buck Mark and then the P22. We'll go back and handle the MK III and Buck Mark tomorrow.
Really can't go wrong with either Ruger or Browning. I like the Brownings due to fitting my hand and also the magazine catch is like a 1911.
Either will serve you well for years (I'm on 20 with one Buckmark and 17 with the other).
Good luck... :)
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The Ruger 22/45 is lighter and cheaper than the other Rugers, and cheaper than the Buckmark. It has a grip angle and mag release similar to the M1911. That's why they call it a 22/45. My other Ruger without a HandAll grip sleeve on it isn't hard to take apart. The only special tool that comes in handy is a paperclip to pull the latch out on the mainspring housing. The Mark III version has better grips on it than mine too. No modifications are neccesary. I like the grip angle of the 22/45 better with normal length barrels and the standard Mark III grip angle better with 10" barrels.
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Back from the gun show.
The decision was (http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u335/hollandmc/DSC_1642web.jpg)
I appreciate very much everyone's thoughts and your taking the time to express them.
The next chapter in a few months will be what larger caliber handgun, thinking home protection, would be good for my wife.
Thanks again!
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Mark III 5.5 bull. Nice!
Just practice withe the tear down / reassembly. My son (15) has a Mark III. He can reassemble with no problem, while I don't even try with it. His gun so he is familiar with it.
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:o... I've got a Browning Buckmark ...just like that one hollandm! Great choice ;). The Ruger .22's are good too. But, that Browning will shoot just as good if not better. I also own a Ruger MKIII. The accuracy of it and the Browning Buckmark are about the same.
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Of COURSE it's a Buckmark! Any fool can see that at a glance! I have no idea who that was impersonating me in that last post. ::)
(at least that's my story and I sticking to it. ;) )
:o I've got a Browning Buckmark just like that one! Great choice ;). The Ruger .22's are good too. But, that Browning will shoot just as good if not better. I also own a Ruger MKIII. The accuracy of it and the Browning Buckmark are about the same.
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One last question. Is it ok to dry fire with the chamber empty? The manual wasn't real clear on this.
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Do not dry fire a rimfire.
The firing pin will hit the breach, and you will chip the firing pin.
You can get soft rubber snap caps.
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NO.. to dry fire... I have with both the Buckmark and the MKIII ..with no ill-effects.. but you aren't suppost to and I stopped as soon as I figured out you weren't suppost too. Some guns..like Glock you can dry fire all day with no problem. But, rimfire's .. most of the time you can't. I know it's so darn tempting... :-\ But, I would not.
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On most rimfires you can dry fire a few times and get away with it, but if you keep doing it, it can peen the edge of the chamber so bad that you can't even load it. Most of the time the firing pin will be okay, and if not can be replaced for chump change, but the barrel gets beaten up until it needs to have the chamber reamed by a gunsmith. You can get snap caps in either aluminum or plastic for $4-$5 a set.
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OK, No dry firing. Thanks
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One last post.
Wife, grandson and I went to the range today.
About 500 rds later we were all smiling. My wife's first time firing a gun of any sort and my grandson and my first time with a pistol.
Maybe 7 or 8 failure to eject using Win Xperts and Federal 510s.
A good time was had by all!
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One last post.
Wife, grandson and I went to the range today.
About 500 rds later we were all smiling. My wife's first time firing a gun of any sort and my grandson and my first time with a pistol.
Maybe 7 or 8 failure to eject using Win Xperts and Federal 510s.
A good time was had by all!
Welcome to the world of pistol shooting ;D
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One last post.
Wife, grandson and I went to the range today.
About 500 rds later we were all smiling. My wife's first time firing a gun of any sort and my grandson and my first time with a pistol.
Maybe 7 or 8 failure to eject using Win Xperts and Federal 510s.
A good time was had by all!
Congrats... 8)
My Buckmarks really love CCI ammo, but don't have problems with anything else, except lead bullets (and then it is the lone hang-up out of 500 rounds, when they are really fouled).
They do like the copper coated ones better (like Remington Yellow Jackets, I think).
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Congrats... 8)
My Buckmarks really love CCI ammo, but don't have problems with anything else, except lead bullets (and then it is the lone hang-up out of 500 rounds, when they are really fouled).
They do like the copper coated ones better (like Remington Yellow Jackets, I think).
Same here, my worst problems with my Buckmark came from a replacement mag I bought, but I had a bad experience with ELEY MATCH pistol ammo, first box was fine but i could feel that the lead bullets were HEAVILY lubed, second box was one jam after another due to accumulated crud, and they were no more accurate than the Fioccchi that the range sells for half that price.
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Same here, my worst problems with my Buckmark came from a replacement mag I bought, but I had a bad experience with ELEY MATCH pistol ammo, first box was fine but i could feel that the lead bullets were HEAVILY lubed, second box was one jam after another due to accumulated crud, and they were no more accurate than the Fioccchi that the range sells for half that price.
Same here. Don't buy non-Browning mags. I bought some cheap copies from Sportsmans Guide and they would not feed in a newer Buckmark, but would in an older one. I got to looking and noticed the front edge was beveled deeper on one than the other.
Also, here is a link for Ruger and Browning accessories:
http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/showbestsellers.asp
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Same here. Don't buy non-Browning mags. I bought some cheap copies from Sportsmans Guide and they would not feed in a newer Buckmark, but would in an older one. I got to looking and noticed the front edge was beveled deeper on one than the other.
Also, here is a link for Ruger and Browning accessories:
http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/showbestsellers.asp
HA, that's where I got mine as well, the follower has slop in it that allows it to tip backward and feed the round at to steep an angle. Since I don't use it for competition or defense, I just make sure I push the follower forward when I load it.
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HA, that's where I got mine as well, the follower has slop in it that allows it to tip backward and feed the round at to steep an angle. Since I don't use it for competition or defense, I just make sure I push the follower forward when I load it.
As a side note, Sportsmans Guide does sell actual Browning mags, they just cost more than the generic. I bought some Browning mags from them and they work fine.
:D
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I have had similar experiences too. I've had no problems with Browning Buckmark factory mags. Also, I too have noticed that if the Buckmark jams (very rarely) it's always with lead bullets. Copper ones seems to work flawlessly.