The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tstand on September 13, 2015, 04:01:11 PM
-
Homeowner living in an Ohio neighborhood where stuff happens sometimes. We have guns at home but do not have carry licenses or intend to carry. I've wondered about the value/importance of insurance in the event we used a firearms (or other tool) to defend ourselves at home.
The two companies I know about are:
http://www.secondcalldefense.org/plans-and-pricing
http://www.usconcealedcarry.net/join-now/
Second Call appears more comprehensive, but USCCA is a bit cheaper.
Does anyone have advice on self defense insurance in general, or specific recommended companies?
-
A note about Ohio law.
If you are not found guilty of a crime in a criminal trial after a self defense shooting, there can be no civil suit filed against you. I would guess this would also apply if you use a weapon other than a firearm for your defense.
Even if you don't intend to carry concealed, you might want to consider taking the class that is the prerequisite for your CCW permit. It will give you a very good understanding of Ohio's "castle doctrine" and self defense laws and how to stay legal.
-
I have good friends who are lawyers so that's my insurance.
However, if I were to buy legal insurance, I'd buy a comprehensive policy covering more than just self-defense situation.
-
A crafty lawyer could make the case that by purchasing such liability insurance, one would be demonstrating a preexisting mindset conducive to using deadly force. That could make it far more difficult to demonstrate the necessary "I feared for my life" line of defense.
"Why would you purchase such insurance if you didn't intend to shoot somebody? After all, if you aren't taking a trip, you don't buy trip insurance and if you don't drive a car, you don't need automobile insurance," could make a convincing argument.
Now, here's the disclaimer: I am not an attorney and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so this bit of insight is worth exactly what you are paying for it.
Finally, make sure you are an up-to-date member of the NRA. They could prove to be an invaluable asset if you ever find yourself in a legitimate shooting situation.
FWIW
Crusader Rabbit
-
There are many different companies offering coverage. Each has its' advantages and disadvantages. Read about each carefully. Some essentially offer liability insurance. Others focus on legal defense. Some will decide after the incident if they will take your case.
The state you live in and your financial situation should be taken into account as well. Here in Idaho, a civil case can only be brought after a criminal conviction. Additionally, the wife and I don't have a lot of assets (another sad story), so legal representation is our greatest concern.
We went with CCW safe http://ccwsafe.com/ (http://ccwsafe.com/) $200.00 per year covers husband and wife and provides a One Million dollar bail bond. They cover legal defense for Criminal, Civil and Administrative actions without limit. One advantage of separating your legal defense from any insurance you may have is that even if your liability carrier decides to pay out the maximum they are on the hook for and walk away, you still have a legal defense. If we find liability insurance at a reasonable price, we may get that too - but our number one priority is criminal defense.
Again, I urge everyone to shop around and know exactly what you are getting - and that it is a good fit for you and your situation.
-
A crafty lawyer could make the case that by purchasing such liability insurance, one would be demonstrating a preexisting mindset conducive to using deadly force. That could make it far more difficult to demonstrate the necessary "I feared for my life" line of defense.
"Why would you purchase such insurance if you didn't intend to shoot somebody? After all, if you aren't taking a trip, you don't buy trip insurance and if you don't drive a car, you don't need automobile insurance," could make a convincing argument.
Crusader Rabbit
Good common sense! Going above and beyond ordinary liability coverage for, "special self defense insurance", could prove to be a legal problem under certain conditions. Besides, it's either a "clean shoot" that is justifiable.... Or it is not. If it's not "insurance" going to change the charges, or the outcome.
-
I am going to look into this further, as I am going to be opening a firearms related business in the next couple of months. Seems like having some insurance may be a good idea. Thanx for the ccw link.
-
Bill, that's a gullible load of crap.
Look at George Zimmerman, thug was bouncing his head off the sidewalk, but because ghetto monkeys are on the protected species list he was dragged through a year of crap.
Bet he wished HE had some sort of insurance.
There is no such thing as a "justified" shooting, only ones some scum sucking DA or civil lawyer can't benefit from.
-
Bet he wished HE had some sort of insurance.
I bet he wished more that he never got out of his car that night.
-
There are many different companies offering coverage. Each has its' advantages and disadvantages. Read about each carefully. Some essentially offer liability insurance. Others focus on legal defense. Some will decide after the incident if they will take your case.
The state you live in and your financial situation should be taken into account as well. Here in Idaho, a civil case can only be brought after a criminal conviction. Additionally, the wife and I don't have a lot of assets (another sad story), so legal representation is our greatest concern.
We went with CCW safe http://ccwsafe.com/ (http://ccwsafe.com/) $200.00 per year covers husband and wife and provides a One Million dollar bail bond. They cover legal defense for Criminal, Civil and Administrative actions without limit. One advantage of separating your legal defense from any insurance you may have is that even if your liability carrier decides to pay out the maximum they are on the hook for and walk away, you still have a legal defense. If we find liability insurance at a reasonable price, we may get that too - but our number one priority is criminal defense.
Again, I urge everyone to shop around and know exactly what you are getting - and that it is a good fit for you and your situation.
We have an umbrella insurance policy (Erie Insurance) but I"m not sure how and if it would benefit us legally in a self defense shooting. I need to look into this. CCW Safe looks like a good deal.
-
Self defense is not a basic liability situation, because it is a case where you act in response to a situation. In most cases you are looking for an insurance that will pay for legal fees (attorney and expert witnesses if needed in court).
Most basic liability does not cover self defense actions.
There are several good policies out there by different groups. Shop your way through the offerings, and pick the one you feel is best for you.
As for the concern that carrying this type of insurance would build a case against you as being prepared to act - How often do you hear of a person or business being held liable for an accident on their property because they had insurance to cover the injuries. If you want to compare an action to a penalty I would look toward the person with a vicious dog that posts a "beware of dog" sign - Case built that they knew the dog was dangerous. Think about the T-shirts you wear, bumper stickers you have on your vehicle, signs on your property, or things you post on social media that talk about property protected by Smith & Wesson, trespassers being shot and and survivors being shot again, nothing in this house (or car) is worth your life, etc.
-
..........If you want to compare an action to a penalty I would look toward the person with a vicious dog that posts a "beware of dog" sign - Case built that they knew the dog was dangerous. Think about the T-shirts you wear, bumper stickers you have on your vehicle, signs on your property, or things you post on social media that talk about property protected by Smith & Wesson, trespassers being shot and and survivors being shot again, nothing in this house (or car) is worth your life, etc.
Or in today's world, the mere fact you own, and are, "into guns", (many), can be shaped into something that can ruin your life both legally and financially. Remember, in the eyes of most hard core liberals, if you own guns and are in defense of the Second Amendment, that alone makes you an enemy worth going after. Not the guy you protected yourself against. You are in fact the, "gun nut". This mindset is increasing every day as the liberal anti gun crowd continues to lose ground. Just like in politics, the more they lose, the meaner and nastier they get.
A person who owns a large collection of weapons, and ammunition to go with it, is going to have a hard time if they're faced with a courtroom full of liberals, and a liberal prosecutor, judge, jury, and police department. There are many municipalities like this that are stacked against the conservative gun owner today. In fact, most large cities, (where a self defense shooting is most likely to occur), have these type of anti gun political people in place to crucify you.
-
Bill,
That is why you hire a good attorney. It is their job to make sure the jury is not stacked against you with liberals, to make the jury and judge understand your frame of mind, to make sure the trial is fair, and to file appeals if needed.
No matter the situation we live in a country that is sue happy and free from personal responsibility. Sad, but true.
-
We have an umbrella insurance policy (Erie Insurance) but I"m not sure how and if it would benefit us legally in a self defense shooting.....
It won't.