The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Big Frank on April 06, 2016, 06:20:29 PM
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What kind of defensive handgun ammo do you use? What else would you recommend?
Currently my bedside pistol is loaded with 13 year old CORBON Pow'R Ball +Ps. It's time to get some fresh ammo and I don't know what to get. Everything I look at claims it has great performance. I'm looking for terminal ballistics and reliability only and don't care about accuracy. It's a 3" .45 and I know CORBON makes DPX ammo for short barrels but I can't remember who else makes short barrel ammo. Does it really make any difference from standard ammo? Would +P ammo be better or worse in such a short barrel?
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Speer makes short barrel ammo as well. I carry it in my snubbie. A bit easier to find here as well.
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+P won't help anything. Your barrel is short, and the extra powder will burn past the muzzle.
I think you are looking for maximum terminal performance. What do you think you will gain? All I see is minor differences between the defensive rounds. Does the Corbon perform perfectly in your gun? If so, why go through the pain and uncertainty of choosing and proving a new round?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Not arguing M58 and I defer to your extensive knowledge on the ballistics but can you explain the physics, please?
All I have is the ballistic charts provided by the manufacturer!
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I use CORBON +P in both my Commander and my G27. It is the only SD ammo I have ever carried. I have tested many others, but CORBON is the only one with zero malfunctions in my SD pistols.
Unlike in rifles, the velocity variances that come from barrel length are not as big an issue with factory rounds in handguns. (IMHO)
Many times, ammo test barrels are much longer than what a SD pistol barrel may be (some ammo makers provide this info). I think what M58 is getting at is that unburned powder is unused energy.
I don't know if it is enough of a loss to worry about, though. Think of it like this: If a .45 ACP +P loading is designed to deliver 1150 fps out of a 5" barrel, and you shoot it in a 3" barrel, you will have some loss in velocity due to the bullet exiting the barrel before all the powder completes the push it was designed to do.
That being said, most of what I have read on the subject tends to point out that the loss in velocity isn't enough to be concerned about from a real world perspective, and would still produce more velocity and energy than a standard load with the same weight bullet (that started its journey at a slower pace to begin with).
In several opinions, the bigger concern was the unburned powder creating a larger muzzle flash in potentially close quarters and possibly in low light scenarios.
If muzzle flash is a concern, then there are factory rounds with custom tailored powder burn rates that are calculated to try and consume the powder in the barrel in order to reduce flash.
**These test numbers were interesting in that the gun gave slightly higher velocities than the test barrel in the 3" length.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html
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Pegleg hit the unburned powder issue. I shoot .45acp in both 5" and 5.5". The same loads are faster out of the longer barrel, and when shot in the dark there is still extreme muzzle flash. The only way I can raise my muzzle velocity is to work with faster burning powders or lighter bullets.
In my J frame I do not have enough velocity difference to even call it a difference going from .38 Special to .38 Special +P. Only reason I tend to carry +P is that standard is usually hard to find on the shelves.
Think about what you already: You are throwing 230 grain of lead at over 800 fps; it is expanding to about .650 inch as it hits; you are hitting the bad guy in the chest with a force similar to a hard swung baseball bat, and it is concentrated to a spot smaller than a dime; and you are doing this at a range of about 20". Good marketing and an abundance of instructors, and wanna be instructors, trying to justify their importance to us have convinced us that minute differences make the difference between life and death. Bad guys don't like loud noises or leaky holes in their bodies.
Spend your time and money on practice to maximize the skills that will make even ball ammunition effective in your 1911. Remember the old saying, I can't remember who said it right now, that we should fear the man who owns only one gun, because he knows how to use it. I don't fear a person with a big gun with the most modern defensive ammunition sitting in his safe near as much as I fear the person with a Ruger Mark III and practices with it weekly.
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Thanks guys. My pistol is Mag-na-ported too so a reduced flash round would probably be better at night when I would most likely need a gun. I've never shot it in low light conditions so I don't know how bad it is. The CORBON DPX is only a 160 grain bullet and the Gold Dot short barrel is 230 grains. As usual the lighter faster bullet has more muzzle energy. Federal Guard Dog ammo is 476 foot pounds out of whatever length barrel they use to test it, which is about as high as I've seen except for some super light exotics. Too bad they don't make a short barrel version of that.
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I'd go with the stuff specifically made for short barrels.
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All that said, I'm a Hornady guy. Got it for my EDCs in 9mm & .357 as well as in .44spl for the wife's gun.
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All that said, I'm a Hornady guy. Got it for my EDCs in 9mm & .357 as well as in .44spl for the wife's Hun.
If I couldn't get CORBON, I'd probably use a Hornady offering.....the shooting I have done with it has went well...enough so that I am thinking of using Hornady rounds in my Colt Agent snubby.
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jumbofrank,
My open gun is a 2011 in .45acp and has a hybred compensator (several ports along the top). During the day I can see the smoke coming up, photos make it look like a locomotive pulling a load, but even though there is a flash, verified by photos, I don't notice it even in the dark. Give it a try, but our bodies adapt when under pressure and stress - loss of color vision, tunnel vision, natural hearing protection, restricted blood flow, etc.
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All that said, I'm a Hornady guy. Got it for my EDCs in 9mm & .357 as well as in .44spl for the wife's Hun.
Hornady what? There are 5 SD loads in .45 APC if you count the Z-MAX which I probably wouldn't buy.
Thanks for the comp info M58.
Right now I'm leaning toward the DPX short barrel ammo.
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Hornady what? There are 5 SD loads in .45 APC if you count the Z-MAX which I probably wouldn't buy.
I almost* exclusively use Critical Defense. I runs in everything I carry, so why complicate things?
*Critical Defense can be hard to find in .45acp from time to time in our region, so I also use a couple others that have proven reliable ... Dang! This old gun will run almost anything, so finding rounds isn't an issue for it.
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I agree with m58. Critical Defense is the way to go. Also look at Critical Duty.
JMHOFWIW
Richard
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The best answer to this question I've heard, is to call your local police department, and ask them what type of duty ammunition they use. That way if you ever have to drop someone, and you end up in court over it. And the prosecutor should ever bring up ammunition as an issue, you have the perfect answer..... "I chose that ammunition because it's what my police department uses. If it's good enough for them, I figured it's good enough for me."
The Phoenix P.D. uses Gold Dots. So do I..... A LOT of them.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/SpeerGoldDotAmmo003.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/SpeerGoldDotAmmo003.jpg.html)
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Remington makes Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun ammo but it's only 268 ft-lbs in .45 ACP. That's less power than their compact handgun 9mm load. Critical Defense is 333 ft-lbs and CORBON DPX is 392 ft-lbs out of a 3" barrel like mine. Gold Dots out of a 4" barrel are 343 ft-lbs. Unless something else comes up I'll be looking for some DPX ammo. It snowed again so it's too cold to go to the outdoor range. I'll wait until it warms up to try any new ammo. It's supposed to hit 70 degrees in a week.
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It snowed again so it's too cold to go to the outdoor range.
Heresy! Heresy, I say!
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"I chose that ammunition because it's what my police department uses. If it's good enough for them, I figured it's good enough for me."
The Phoenix P.D. uses Gold Dots. So do I..... A LOT of them.
All fine and dandy if it works well for you, and you like it. However, many governmental decisions are based on nothing more than cost. I know several departments that shoot a lot of one brand of FMJ for practice, because they get it extremely cheap through government bids. They carry another brand based on some other reason, but because of cost and availability they hardly practice with the carry ammunition.
Want to protect yourself in court? Control you mouth, and check the attitude at the door! "I use this ammunition because it is produced by a proven reliable company, the ammunition is available in my area when I need to purchase it, and my defensive tool has operated flawlessly through (years, rounds, sessions) of practice with it."
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Critical Defense
CorBon dPX
Short barrel I go with Gold Dot
I do like the expanding full metal jacket offering from Federal for the 45....
Like Mike said, training is the key.
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All fine and dandy if it works well for you, and you like it. However, many governmental decisions are based on nothing more than cost.
You won't know that until you drop someone with it. If Gold Dots won't run your gun, you've got other things wrong besides ammunition. As for cost, Gold Dots run the same or more than most other personal defense rounds. They are also one of the most common.
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Bill, You will note that I did not pick on any specific ammunition brand or style. I just pointed out the fact that some, many, departments choose based on latest State Bid. I do not recommend changing ammunition choices more than needed, especially without good reason, and low bid is not a good reason. If our sole reason for a choice is to set a jury at ease, what do we do if the local department uses Federal, and the prosecutor builds off the meaning of "Hydro Shock" and what it is designed to do?
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I just ordered the last 3 boxes of the 160 grain DPX ammo from Midway. I also got a cheap box of .45 ammo to bring the total over $100 so I could get $10 off my order. It should be here in a few days. Lucky Gunner was cheaper but after the $10 discount Midway was something like $7 cheaper. Anyone here order from Lucky Gunner? I've never done business with them.
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i use gold dot in my 38 and 10 mm and rem golden sabres in my 45s
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I like Gold Dots but their short barrel load was made for 4" barrels and mine is only 3". It seems like just about anything would work in a 4" barrel. One of my other .45s has a 3.5" barrel so the DPX should perform well in that one too. I just hope it feeds as good as it should.