The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on June 09, 2016, 08:28:07 AM
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Time to vent. Last April 27th I signed on with Home Depot to get 2 small bathroom floors tiled, and 2 new toilets installed. Now, almost 6 weeks into this fiasco they are nowhere near done. It took over 2 weeks just for them, (Home Depot), to deliver the materials. (They're less than a mile away).
Then I had to wait another 3 weeks before they, (the installation company Home Depot contracts with), could give me an installation date. (June 6th). So finally last Monday the guy shows up to start... At 9:30 AM. The next day he didn't show up until 11:00 AM. Yesterday he didn't show up at all, and never called. (We've been operating with just one working toilet during all of this.) Then around 3:30 PM yesterday the installation company called to ask.... "If he was showing up in a timely fashion". I said, "Timely fashion? The guy isn't showing up AT ALL!" They said they would find out what's going on and get back to me. I'm still waiting for that call.
So..... Here I am 4 days into this, and they're nowhere near done. (They still have to grout the second bathroom, and set the new toilet). Then to frost the cake and light the candles, the guy told me that after he's done with all of the tile, they have to send out yet another guy to finish cut and re tack the carpet where it meets the tile, because he doesn't do carpet, only tile. So that will be yet another day, involving yet another guy, and still more waiting and farting around. They've managed to involve more people in this, than it takes to launch the Space Shuttle. If no one shows up by 8:00 AM this morning, I'm going to start raising hell. Christ, these people are as worthless as tits on a Bull! I will never contract with Home Depot ever again!
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Should have asked us first Bill!
There's a reason I've taught myself to basically do everything myself!
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Should have asked us first Bill!
There's a reason I've taught myself to basically do everything myself!
I had no intentions of doing this myself. I'm at the stage of my life where my, "do it yourself career" is quickly coming to a close. There still are some things I do myself, but no more major home improvement projects. My mistake was contracting with an outfit that I thought was reputable. They don't do anything but sublet everything out. Too many people wind up getting involved, in what is a basically simple project. I should have simply went with a kitchen and bath place. They're a dime a dozen around here. Live and learn.
Now the freaky part. I just got off the phone with the installer. And they told me it is very unusual for this guy to just not show up and not call. And they have been trying to contact him since yesterday with no success. I hope the guy isn't dead.
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Yea, I get that... You're retired, have better things to do.
I learned shortly after Home Depot became a monster that it's better to have a dedicated roofer, carpet installer, anything contractor do the work. Sears was my learning curve when I was out of town for months and needed to finish a bathroom and kitchen floor. They contracted some fly by night installer and he pooched the job so badly I had to drag the Sears guy to the house, get my money back and do it myself.
Basically had to rip both floors to the floor joists and redo everything. Thus began my never ending learning curve. That was 1992...
Since, I'm content to rent and just call the owner.....
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The other thing that really bothered me was I had to pay for everything up front. Something you should never do. However, being Home Depot I figured they're not going to dodge me like a fly by night outfit can do so easily.
Anyway, the installer just called me and said they'll have a guy out shortly, and promised it would be done by today, or the latest tomorrow. We'll see.
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the other side of that is I have known a few HD contractors that have been totally fucked over by them.
no way in hell I would ever do it.
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The general manager of the installing outfit was just here to see exactly what's left to be done. He told me he'll have someone out here by this afternoon to finish up. We'll see. So far a lot of talk, but no action. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, because he told me they're still trying to contact the guy, and have had no luck. He seemed really worried about the guy.
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Never deal with contractors with out getting several local references.
Always ask friends and neighbors who they use first.
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Never deal with contractors with out getting several local references.
Always ask friends and neighbors who they use first.
I never even printed biz cards lol. Did almost 30 mill in gross sales over 12 years.
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Twenty years back I had a section of roof collapse under a snow load. Bad remodel job by previous owner. I was out of town at the time so I had the wife call four or five general contractors to get a bid to rework the structure, install some windows and get it back to sound.
Of the five, not one called back. Job was too small for them, probably under 5K.
Talking to my boss one day, he gave me the name of a contractor who I called and he agreed to meet me the next day so I flew back from Chicago that night. He showed up, took a look at the problems, calculated a list of materials for me to pick up at the local lumber yard including a few new windows. The next day he and I rebuilt that section of the house and he didn't miss the list of material by more than a few feet of scrap! Amazing work, learned a lot from the guy in the 6-8 hours we worked together. I finished the siding, trim and rock/mud finish work over the next few weeks.
Did a quick search for the guy in the yellow papers and it turns out this guy's normal build is a home of about 3-5 million bucks and thousands of square foot! He could have told me to pound sand but he saw someone in need and answered the call!
Not all contractors are schmucks...
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Today is day 5 and still nothing but promises. The general manager of the installation company came out to my house yesterday and told me they would call me this morning with a time the guy would show up this afternoon and finish the job. This is after they told me they would finish it up yesterday.
I'm giving them until 1:00 PM this afternoon, and if there isn't somebody here working, I'm going to pay the manager of Home Depot a visit. They need to know what kind of buffoons they are contracting to do their work. I can guarantee you this outfit doesn't want to lose Home Depot as a customer, because they're spoon feeding them a lot of work. They're understaffed by choice to maximize profitability on each job. As a result the work is taking forever to schedule, and even longer to complete. Home Depot has lost me as a customer. And will no doubt lose many more, if they haven't already because of these irresponsible idiots.
To give you an example. I had a large construction outfit here in the Valley quote me $25K to build a 200 sq. ft. room addition on my house. He wrote right into the estimate all construction would be completed in a 4 week period, unless it was delayed by weather. Then he said 5 weeks max. Thus far it has taken 6 weeks to get Home Depot to get 2 small bathroom floors tiled, and they're nowhere near done.
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This isn't just something foisted upon you by a faceless corporation. It is also very much a symptom of the decline in character of the people in this nation.
It's your money and goodwill that is exploited by people whose motivation is greatly based upon negative personal consequences.
I'd write this guy and give him the names of the store manager and manager over the construction. The construction company contracted won't matter. The process is the punishment.
Our Store Support Center (corporate office) is located at 2455 Paces Ferry Road, Atlanta, Georgia 30339. Our telephone number is (770) 433-8211.
EDWARD P. DECKER, age 53, has been Executive Vice President – Merchandising since August 2014. From October 2006 through July 2014, he served as Senior Vice President – Retail Finance, Pricing Analytics and Assortment Planning. Mr. Decker joined The Home Depot in 2000 and held various strategic planning roles, including serving as Vice President –Strategic Business Development from November 2002 to April 2006 and Senior Vice President – Strategic Business and Asset Development from April 2006 to September 2006. Prior to joining the Company, Mr. Decker held various positions in strategic planning, business development, finance and treasury at Kimberly-Clark Corp. and Scott Paper Co., both of which are consumer products companies.
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OK. They finally came and finished the job.... Almost. Everything went well except for putting in the new toilet. The new toilets I bought fit good in one bathroom. But in my master bath the back of the tank hits the wall because they roughed in the drain too close to the wall. The cheap builder grade toilets fits. But the new one won't.
So now I'm looking at installing an offset toilet flange. I going to call a plumber because I've never messed with toilets, let alone something like this. I'm sure they have a fix for this because these things are all over You Tube. It's a fairly common problem. They even make 10" rough in toilets, but I would rather make this one work if at all possible. Anyway, the worst appears to be over.... For now.
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yes, they make them all the way down to 6 by 2, but boy do they get pricy. what kind did you buy? Is it the bowl or the tank that won't fit?
<<<< can help pm me your number we can talk
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What kind did you buy? Is it the bowl or the tank that won't fit?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Glacier-Bay-1-piece-1-1-GPF-1-6-GPF-High-Efficiency-Dual-Flush-Elongated-All-in-One-Toilet-in-Bone-N2420-BNE/206056968
They are a 1 piece tank and bowl design. In the one bathroom, the back of the tank hits the wall before the holes line up with the bolts. Not by much, maybe a half an inch or less. I tried moving the bolts around in the slot, and turning the ring. But I just don't have enough clearance for it to drop on to the wax ring.
An offset flange would do it. Just as long as I find one that will sit low enough not to cause interference issues. They make dozens of these things in just about every size and shape imaginable. Both I.D. and O.D. are available. I'm sure I can find something today. I didn't bother yesterday because the flooring guys were here pretty late before they finished everything.
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It maybe easier to remove the exsisting flange and replace it with an offset. Its not hard to do, if I was closer I would say I'll take a look, but that 1100 ish mile drive each way is a bit much.
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It maybe easier to remove the exsisting flange and replace it with an offset. Its not hard to do, if I was closer I would say I'll take a look, but that 1100 ish mile drive each way is a bit much.
Thanks Tab. I was looking it over this morning. I don't need much. I know they make countless size and angle offset flanges. I'm sure the fix won't be that bad. From what I've read on it they say you do lose a little flushing efficiency because of the offset. But for the little amount I need, I doubt it will create an issue.
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Bill,
I've installed a dozen toilets, maybe more! I think TAB will agree that if, for any reason you have to pull the toilet, ALWAYS use a new Johnny Ring. Don't try and re-install one that's already been compressed!
Good luck..
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I've got a fresh one ready to go!
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All this trouble for what the neighbors cat does on your lawn.
NOW do you see why they used to just dig a hole and build a little shack over it ?
The Roman's had indoor flush toilets and THEY were a PITA as well. LOL
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One thing I've always wondered about with all of these newer "eco friendly" low volume, (1.1 to 1.6 gallon per flush), toilets, is how far they actually carry the solid waste on one flush? Do they push it completely through your system out to the main at the street on a single flush? Or does it build up in the main along the way, being pushed a little at a time? It just seems like there isn't enough water being used to move it all the way through.
This is such total nonsense. They pour billions of gallons of water on golf courses all over the country every day. I can't imagine how much water a desert city like Palm Springs uses alone, in order to keep their golf courses green. Yet we've got the government telling us how much water we're allowed to use to flush our $h!t.
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Most of these low flow crappers need to be flushed twice on a stubborn load! There are some high tech systems that have more force but at what cost?
Had some septic work done recently and flushed the system several times during the work process to help the contractors while they were correcting the issue. From my crapper, the fluids made it clear out to the tank. I'm guessing an occasional "nugget" can get stopped in the pipe but it will eventually break down and make it to it's destination. All drain piping has a general 1/4"/ft slope (or more). Houses on slabs must have the drain waste lines sloped to prevent back up and properly vented as well.
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Restaurants and some other entities are exempt...there's a federal law on this that's been around for a while on what they can sell. If they are still available, there are low volume flushers with plastic bowls inside to hold water. Therefore, they don't flush over the specified volume because of what is held in the bowl.
I would not doubt there are penalties against it, but it is nothing a box cutter can't fix.
In the late 80's or early 90's I bought some of the older models before the law changed. Still have one in reserve.
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Most of these low flow crappers need to be flushed twice on a stubborn load!
I've operated on the "Dump flush, Wipe flush" principal since these low flow crappers came out. One guy I worked with when I was living in Lake Havasu City, bought contraband Mexican toilets that used 7.5 gallons per flush. Evidently the sewer line going from his house to the street wasn't graded enough. He always had problems with things backing up.
The plumber he called gave him the number of a guy who sold these illegal Mexican toilets. (He had to drive all the way to Yuma to get them). Even a country as backwards as Mexico has enough common sense to use enough water to get rid of $h!t. Instead we elect it.
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I've flushed twice or more for years. When lawyers decide how much fluid is required to work a crapper there will always be issues!
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there are some good 1.6 and a few 1.3s but the 1.1s suck
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Did I miss something here?
The flange is roughed in. You purchased everything from Home Depot and contracted with them for installation. Why is the error in the flange your issue?
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You purchased everything from Home Depot and contracted with them for installation. Why is the error in the flange your issue?
Because they didn't install the flange. The builder did. Home Depot has nothing to do with that. They sold me the toilets. The fact that one doesn't fit isn't their fault. The builder roughed in the drain too close to the wall. Or else they built the wall too close to the drain. (That was most likely the case because the plumbing is installed before the slab is poured). In either case it has nothing to do with Home Depot. It happened 18 years ago when the home was built. The builder lucked out in that the cheap POS builder grade toilets they installed fit...... Just barely.
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So the toilet purchase was outside the remodeling contract?
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So the toilet purchase was outside the remodeling contract?
They were purchased at the same time so they could be installed after both bathrooms were tiled. They had to remove both toilets in order to tile. So I figured it would be a good time to replace both of them. They didn't charge me any more to install the new one's, as it was no more work involved than putting the old one's back in.
When the one wouldn't fit they left and called the job complete as far as they were concerned. They offered to send a plumber in, but it would be at my expense. I had no problem with that, as it not fitting was not because of anything they did. I preferred to call someone I had done business with before. They'll be here tomorrow at 10:00 AM. The saga continues.
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buy me a plane ticket, it might be cheaper lol
I will actually be back in sac for the next 2 weeks for a project... I f....k hate it.
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"Illegal Mexican toilets" Ain't ya glad you live in a FREE country ?
This is why Hillary , Soros, and Bloomberg keep pushing gun control. If you will tolerate being told how much water you're ALLOWED to flush a turd , you'll tolerate pretty much any thing.
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"Illegal Mexican toilets" Ain't ya glad you live in a FREE country ?
This is why Hillary , Soros, and Bloomberg keep pushing gun control. If you will tolerate being told how much water you're ALLOWED to flush a turd , you'll tolerate pretty much any thing.
The bulk of the people not only are stupid enough to tolerate it, they welcome it with open arms. Look at this Orlando ass wipe. He should have been caught because he was Muslim. Instead he got away with it because he was. Law enforcement is forced by political correctness to back off from these people. If this guy waved anymore red flags, he would have blinded people. This whole country is completely ass backwards. What time is Obama teeing off today?
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So the plumber showed up this morning, took a look and said, no how, no way. I need a 10" toilet, and there is no way a 12" will fit. He said he could "make it fit", but that would involve moving the drain. He said that would make a mess, and cost around $650.00.
So I took the toilet back to Home Depot and got a refund. Then I called a local plumbing supply place here in town, and ordered a nice American Standard 10" toilet for almost the same price. It will be here by 10:00 AM tomorrow. The saga continues.
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You'll be happier with the quality of American Standard over the HD brand. I've always used American Standand or Koehler.
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While we wait......
Does anyone know where the slang name of "Crapper" for toilets originated?
There is some myth involved here, but there is also fact.
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Thomas Crapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Crapper
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And finally.................... IT'S DONE! The plumbing supply store called me yesterday morning and told me my 10" rough in toilet had arrived. So I went and picked it up. An hour later the plumber stopped by and installed it. It fit perfectly. So... 8 long days after this fiasco started, it's all finally finished. Both bathrooms really look nice. New tile floors, and both with nice new toilets, supply lines, and valves.... This is what I learned from all of this, that may help you guys who are ever going to attempt bathroom improvements:
Helpful Hint #1.) Always measure your toilet drain from the wall to centerline of the pipe, immediately after removing your old toilet, and before ordering any new ones. You, like me, may require a 10" rough in toilet.
Helpful Hint #2.) Always buy the extra tall wax sealing ring with the rubber flange poured into it. They're just a couple of bucks more, and seal much better.
THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT:
https://www.ebarnett.com/Sku/191170?CID=Shop_Barnett_THD500_PP_1_ALL_C&CAWELAID=120259710000003141&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=27472108846&CATCI=pla-174369358846&gclid=Cj0KEQjw-YO7BRDwi6Stp7T296ABEiQAD6iWMSgaMrafCCNU_8RDPO6N4NACtiO-dV9TUkUH8cU4yxQaAmR_8P8HAQ
NOT THIS:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Hercules-90210-Johni-Ring-Wax-Toilet-Gasket-Waste-Lines-Standard-Size-for-3-or-4-Waste-Lines?gclid=Cj0KEQjw-YO7BRDwi6Stp7T296ABEiQAD6iWMfMs2Lp2Gp65-hCmKGBcjHR7kFNQd_s-BaMQi7T_IgwaAmF28P8HAQ
Helpful Hint #3). Buy a pair of SHORT toilet mounting bolts. The ones they give you with the toilet are usually way too tall, because they don't know what kind of flooring situation you have going on. 99% of the time the studs will be too long, and the caps won't sit right. They'll spin around on the top of the studs and look stupid. If you can't find short studs, you need to go with tall caps, which are not easy to find, let alone find them in colors, (I needed Almond or Biscuit color).
You don't want to have to cut off the bolts because they're a PITA to get to, and you'll have limited access to cut them off without getting a charley horse. And it's very easy to scratch up your nice, brand new toilet. So it's tall caps or short bolts. Measure beforehand and see what you'll need. And buy them in Stainless Steel, not brass. Many times the bolts look to be made of solid brass. But most are just brass plated, and will easily corrode over time. Go by price. Stainless Steel bolts will cost over triple what the brass plated one's sell for.
Helpful Hint #4). No matter how nice or expensive of a toilet you buy, it's all but guaranteed they'll package it with the most cheap $h!t, plastic toilet seat they can possibly find. Every aftermarket toilet seat I've ever purchased, regardless of price, will slide around on the top of the bowl. This regardless of how much you try to tighten the cheap plastic bolts all are provided with.
I finally found a solution. Buy a Bemis "Slow Close / Stay Tight" toilet seat. They're $40.00, but are worth every penny. They have a patented bolt system that centers the bolt at both the top and the bottom, in the oversize porcelain holes all toilets have. The nuts they give you with it are almost 2" inches long. And are easy to tighten when you're working all but upside down, trying at the same time to get a wrench on them. After you snug them up, the seat will NOT slide around. And they stay tight. As the name say's, they have a nice hinge system, that gently closes both the seat and the lid so they'll never slam down on the bowl. This is the seat. They come in both round and elongated, in most any color. Both of mine match perfectly.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/BEMIS-Slow-Close-STA-TITE-Elongated-Closed-Front-Toilet-Seat-in-Bone-1201SLOW-006/205003588
Let's face it. We're all men here. And there are some things in a man's life that we want to go smoothly. Taking a crap is one of them. What I've outlined here will help assure that for generations to come.
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There is one other thing I would add that really saved my ass. This is the toilet supply valve I installed on both of my bathrooms.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-1-2-in-Nominal-Compression-Inlet-x-3-8-in-O-D-Compression-Outlet-1-4-Turn-Angle-Valve-G2CR19X-C1/202047059
Here is the real beauty in this particular valve. It's solid brass, quarter turn, full on / full off. The best part is if you have 1/2" copper compression fitting supply, you can use the existing nut and compression ring that will remain after you remove the old valve. The threads are standard and match most older valves used in the last 20 years or so.
This is important, especially if you run into a situation like I had, where I did not have enough pipe sticking out of the wall, to cut off and run a new compression fitting without sweating on an extension, which is a PITA. All I did was clean the existing pipe and compression ring with some steel wool. Then I cleaned off everything well with some acetone, (nail polish remover). Then for good measure I wrapped a few layers of Teflon Tape around the compression ring, and greased the threads on the old nut. (You can't get the old nut off without cutting the old compression ring off).
I then simply threaded on the new valve. Snugged it up good and tight, and that was it. Nice new valve all ready to go. This valve shows a compression fitting to the supply line. But if you use the Stainless Steel braided supply lines, they'll thread right on, no problem and no leaks. This is the supply line I used. They come in a slew of different lengths.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerks-Worldwide-3-8-in-OD-x-7-8-in-BC-x-20-in-Toilet-Supply-Line-Braided-Stainless-Steel-7233-20-38-2/203082393
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In my decades of doing this stuff I've learned to avoid buying cheap parts. Find a good plumbing supply house and bring coffee and gut bombs. Get to know them well...
All good info, Bill! Thanks.
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There is one other thing I would add that really saved my ass. This is the toilet supply valve I installed on both of my bathrooms.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-1-2-in-Nominal-Compression-Inlet-x-3-8-in-O-D-Compression-Outlet-1-4-Turn-Angle-Valve-G2CR19X-C1/202047059
Here is the real beauty in this particular valve. It's solid brass, quarter turn, full on / full off. The best part is if you have 1/2" copper compression fitting supply, you can use the existing nut and compression ring that will remain after you remove the old valve. The threads are standard and match most older valves used in the last 20 years or so.
This is important, especially if you run into a situation like I had, where I did not have enough pipe sticking out of the wall, to cut off and run a new compression fitting without sweating on an extension, which is a PITA. All I did was clean the existing pipe and compression ring with some steel wool. Then for good measure I wrapped a few layers of Teflon Tape around the compression ring, and greased the threads on the old nut. (You can't get the old nut off without cutting the old compression ring off).
I then simply threaded on the new valve. Snugged it up good and tight, and that was it. Nice new valve all ready to go. This valve shows a compression fitting to the supply line. But if you use the Stainless Steel braided supply lines, they'll thread right on, no problem and no leaks. This is the supply line I used. They come in a slew of different lengths.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerks-Worldwide-3-8-in-OD-x-7-8-in-BC-x-20-in-Toilet-Supply-Line-Braided-Stainless-Steel-7233-20-38-2/203082393
never use the old nut and compression ring, get one of the pullers for $10 and remove it. trust me.