The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Ulmus on July 15, 2016, 02:56:17 PM
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You ain't seen nothin' 'till you've seen this!
http://gawker.com/who-will-win-the-upcoming-civil-war-1783675459 (http://gawker.com/who-will-win-the-upcoming-civil-war-1783675459)
I can't believe they were so stupid to post this. Isn't this libel in the least?
And the last line... Now what we need to do is take away their guns...
I can't believe they were so dumb to say that in this context.
We should spread this all across the web to show what morons they are.
Wow.
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It's not news. Everybody knows the "progressives" have always wanted total disarmament. Military, police, citizens.
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Everybody knows that part.
It's the fact that this guy is contemplating all out war in our country in a way that is almost instigating in it's rhetoric.
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I would say it's probably (hopefully) satire, since it is written in the style of an introduction to a boxing match, and includes such in depth observations as " the high percentage of city dwellers will handicap the left in rural combat when it comes to things like tolerating bugs. and " the high number of old white guys on the right will place them at a disadvantage when rapid movements are required .
(Got to say, I think he's right on both points LOL )
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<snip>
and " the high number of old white guys on the right will place them at a disadvantage when rapid movements are required .
<snip>
If it is not satire it's really stupid and arrogant. I mean, really stupid and wholly arrogant. Can you imagine the chaos of that many put out to pasture as snipers??? It's got to be satire, right? Is anyone that devoid of decorum and sense?
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If it is not satire it's really stupid and arrogant. I mean, really stupid and wholly arrogant. Can you imagine the chaos of that many put out to pasture as snipers??? It's got to be satire, right? Is anyone that devoid of decorum and sense?
Have you missed every presidential statement since the treasonous Muslim POS took office ?
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Have you missed every presidential statement since the treasonous Muslim POS took office ?
This comment makes me wish we had a Like or Karma button to press. ;D
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REALLY arrogant, snotty piece of writing. Man, I think I lost IQ points just reading it.
Similar, however, to the college prof a week or so back who posted about attacking the NRA headquarters and killing everyone inside in order to ban guns.
I think there is some truth to the perspective that the average, run-of-the-mill leftoid/progressive is so inherently and psychologically prone to violence that they automatically assume everyone else is, and cannot fathom the fact that if they carried they would not be shooting everyone who disagrees with them on some small point so those who do carry are already doing that, the reality notwithstanding.
Couple this with the recent article positing that leftoid/progressives are screaming tantrum-ridden cry-babies due to their having been raised in daycare facilities where that is how you got attention, being a leftoid/progressive really is a psychological disorder.
Our problem is that when everyone else is crazy, the sane people are the crazy ones - to the crazies anyhow.
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If it is not satire it's really stupid and arrogant. I mean, really stupid and wholly arrogant. Can you imagine the chaos of that many put out to pasture as snipers??? It's got to be satire, right? Is anyone that devoid of decorum and sense?
They are right in the sense that I can't move rapidly...which may be a disadvantage....but, I'm patient and accurate. I'm rural and live on a hill. It would take me just a few hours to churn out a suppressor from scratch....and I can hit what I can see.
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This is kind of nit picking technicality, but hey, that's life.
Yes the old guys can sit in one place and shoot the crap out of what comes in range, but if you're in Boston, and the fighting is in NY that isn't much use.
Remember, the really effective forces in history, Stonewall Jackson's "foot Calvary", the Roman Legions, Bedford Forrest' s confederates,even the British Corps of Guides in India, all owed their reputations to their ability to cover ground faster than the enemy could react.
Troops that arrived in Gettysburg on 4/7/1863 didn't get famous.
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Mostly those arrogant arses are in the cities and I'm thinking without electricity and water for 3 or 4 days they all get a lot less belligerent and after a couple of weeks they don't even know who they are. The Germans did a good job of controlling populations this way during WWII....and then the 1,100/day calorie diets did the rest to keep them pacified.
And Tom I ignored the POSPOTUS talks because that's what I do. I get ill whenever I seem him....and think about all of the truly stupid people who voted for him.
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This is kind of nit picking technicality, but hey, that's life.
Yes the old guys can sit in one place and shoot the crap out of what comes in range, but if you're in Boston, and the fighting is in NY that isn't much use.
Remember, the really effective forces in history, Stonewall Jackson's "foot Calvary", the Roman Legions, Bedford Forrest' s confederates,even the British Corps of Guides in India, all owed their reputations to their ability to cover ground faster than the enemy could react.
Troops that arrived in Gettysburg on 4/7/1863 didn't get famous.
Absolutely understood....but, if a new civil war erupts, I expect it will be a whole different beast than the original war between the states.
In this one, the fighting won't be entire state region against region, it will most likely be un-militaristic, unorganized fighting within population groups (with the large metro areas seeing the worst of it).
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Absolutely understood....but, if a new civil war erupts, I expect it will be a whole different beast than the original war between the states.
In this one, the fighting won't be entire state region against region, it will most likely be un-militaristic, unorganized fighting within population groups (with the large metro areas seeing the worst of it).
Another factor is that with internal chaos in this country, the path is open for a large scale foreign military invasion. It would be difficult to mount a coordinated defense against it with the military perhaps split between the internal factions.
I have little doubt that the current administration would do all in it's power to facilitate that invasion.
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No one else has the lift capacity to make invasion a viable option.
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I don't see an invasion, but I see an opportunity taken by our advisories. Russia takes on Ukraine and the Balkan States, China takes over the South Chinese Sea and Taiwan, and something in the middle east.
It would be all too easy with us fighting amongst ourselves.
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So what ?
Why do we even give a crap as long as they still sell us what we want and buy our exports at reasonable prices ?
Isn't it about time we worried about America instead of playing Jewish Uncle to the whole world ?
Who really gives a crap about a current phase of the centuries old conflict in the Balkans, or Ukraine, or Perpetual expansion and contractions of China ?
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Tom, aren't you part of the generation that taught us that our word is our bond?
We gave our word we'd defend Ukraine if they gave up their nukes.
We gave our word we'd protect Taiwan from China.
We gave our word we'd support Israel.
Does our word mean anything or not?
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No, actually I'm from the generation that watched congress promise to help South Vietnam if the North violated the cease fire then turned around and said "Damn, sucks to be you" when the NVA invaded 2 years later.
Obviously common sense and practical realities, to say nothing of historical lessons, have no place in your thinking here.
Only an idiot would expect us to be able to assist a land locked country half way around the world ,remember Poland in 1939 ? They fought with out aid for the very simple reason that there was no way for anybody to get there. Same with the Hungarian and Czech revolutions in the 60's.
I won't even address the fact that "Ukraine's" nukes were actually Russian property so they had no right to them any way.
As for Taiwan and Israel since they both have nukes , and are better of with out our temperamental meddling.And before you go on about being "Part of a generation that..." you might want to remember, regardless of your own views, you are part of a generation that argues over which bathroom you can use and elected a treasonous Muslim POS, twice.
And here's a couple quotes for you,
"Countries don't have "friends, they have interests" (in other words if it is to the countries benefit to throw their closest ally under the bus then the benefit of the country takes precedent over sentiment)
"Who cares if they like us,so long as they fear us"
Also have a couple of my personal favorites about BLM,
One death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic"
"No man, No problem"
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No, actually I'm from the generation that watched congress promise to help South Vietnam if the North violated the cease fire then turned around and said "Damn, sucks to be you" when the NVA invaded 2 years later.
Ah, I keep forgetting that you're from the 60's. You're strong conservative posts always remind me of a friend who grew up in the 50's, so I keep accidentally putting in that era. My apologies.
Obviously common sense and practical realities, to say nothing of historical lessons, have no place in your thinking here.
Yes. I am a bit of a romantic. I believe in the practical realities of having an economic and military station set on the other side of the planet to expedite actions to prevent having to fight them on our soil.
Only an idiot would expect us to be able to assist a land locked country half way around the world ,remember Poland in 1939 ? They fought with out aid for the very simple reason that there was no way for anybody to get there. Same with the Hungarian and Czech revolutions in the 60's.
What I was taught about Poland is that we were too war weary and chose isolation over interfering. We ended up in the fight anyway. Do we want to go through that again?
I won't even address the fact that "Ukraine's" nukes were actually Russian property so they had no right to them any way.
If they were Russia's, why did they also sign the non-aggression pact and have those nuke disposed of instead of taking them back to the motherland? Obviously Russia didn't mind losing them.
As for Taiwan and Israel since they both have nukes , and are better of without our temperamental meddling.
Maybe, but you know the "Powers that be" on both sides will never allow that.
And before you go on about being "Part of a generation that..." you might want to remember, regardless of your own views, you are part of a generation that argues over which bathroom you can use and elected a treasonous Muslim POS, twice..
Yes. WE are. Call it that curse of living in interesting times. We could have fun with it though. We could both wear micro skirts and skip hand-in-hand to the women's bathroom while singing George Michael's "Freedom". That would cause a stir.
And here's a couple quotes for you,
"Countries don't have "friends, they have interests" (in other words if it is to the countries benefit to throw their closest ally under the bus then the benefit of the country takes precedent over sentiment)
If that's true, then we should be aiding Venezuela and establishing a military base there. With the collapse there the country is ripe to have China sweep in and "aid" it. It would definitely be in their interest to have a large military base and Navy right in the Gulf of Mexico. They could quickly counter our moves in the Sea of China. It's in our best interests to "own" that area instead of an adversary.
"Who cares if they like us, so long as they fear us"
Fear only works so long and then we get things like Baltimore. Then everybody loses. (Baltimore will be Detroit for the next two generations.)
Also have a couple of my personal favorites about BLM,
One death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic"
"No man, No problem"
Which is what the chummers want. Just like the guy who's article I posted at the beginning. I say we don't give them what they want. Deal with those that are a threat to the countries interests, and make sure those that aren't are treated the same as you and me.
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Re-reading my post it sounds a little more assholish than I intended, but by now you probably understand that is my writing style.
Cut and quote is a PITA on this tablet, so I'll just go with numbered paragraphs.
1) Yes, every one I was around outside of school was older than me, often WWII veterans, plus my interest (some say addiction) to history give me an older, more pragmatic less emotion based outlook.
2) That's one I didn't intend to sound so shitty, but I firmly believe that one of histories greatest lessons is that decisions have to be made ruthlessly based on facts rather than wishful thinking, like medical triage. Otherwise you wind up with situations like Haiti, where the only industry for 200 years has been absorbing US charity. The truly kindest course would be to cut them loose, they either starve and die off, or they get their act together and become an actual viable country.
3) When I mentioned Poland I was thinking more of England and France who had treaties with them but when the crunch came couldn't back up their promises. In 1939 America's biggest consideration was that it wasn't our fight, we had no treaty obligations to any of them and were doing business with all. In cold fact, we really had nothing at stake in either European war beyond friendship with England.
4) The Russian's were obligated under he arms limitation treaties to destroy X number of nukes. They were happier about destroying ones they no longer had bases for rather than ones protecting the "Rodina".
5) The only thing we can do for either is keep selling them ammo.They both have their own arms industries , just as advanced as ours. The iplomatic actions are like TSA, meaningless posturing.
6) Umm, no thanks. Just for starters my knees are so white they glow in the dark. Scary mental image ! LOL
7) Actually, that's why we RALLY fought the Spanish war, to acquiring coaling station in accordance with Mahan's theories of sea power. We had 3 good ones, Porto Rico, Gitmo, and the Canal zone. nuke powered carriers, subs and airlift have reduced that need somewhat. (influence of Sea Power is actually pretty readable and interesting, and free on Project Gutenberg)
8) Fear has worked fine, it kept Romans eating free Egyptian bread for centuries. In our time it has kept any one from doing anything about BLM because they are afraid of being called "racist". It has kept the anti gun lobby alive because every one on our side seems to fear being called "unreasonable".
9) Not wanting to piss off people who already hate you and want you gone, preferably dead, is what lead Germany's Jews to quietly board the cattle cars. Solzhenitsyn had a quote to the effect that if Soviet people had showed any spine, and killed a few Chekists the purges would not have been possible.
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Thank you for replying. No worries about the intent of you message. I was actually more concerned about how my reply would come across to you.
I completely agree about gut and paste on tablets. replying on a smart phone with autocorrect in a nightmare! I'm going to follow your lead on the paragraphs.
1. History is a great subject that I dabble in. I often watch "The Guns of August" and understand the sheer anger against Germany after their scorched earth policy during the war. I also have the privilege of talking to vets of WW-II, Korea, and Vietnam at work.
2. I think the business world used to be what screwed up the ability to stay away from places that can be triaged. (More resources to get and profit to make) Now it's more in the hands of social media. The constant barrage of that (which is even bigger than the 24 hr news cycle) along with the emotional need "to do something" causes more trouble, and political backlash now than ever before. Unfortunately we're never getting that genie back in the bottle.
3. Sorry I didn't think about England and France. I guess I'm still American-centric in my thinking. It is a good point you make.
4. True. It was a win-win for Russia at that point.
5. Yep. Guns and butter.
6. That's OK. At this point I have more hair on my legs than my head! :o Besides. We don't need to start a Target version of "People of Walmart".
7. Thanks for the tip on "Influence of Sea Power." I'll go to project Gutenberg and download it tonight. That sounds like a great read!
8. True, It works great in the middle east and Africa as well, but once the force behind the fear is gone, the backlash is devastating.
9. Again true. (This is where I screwed up and didn't communicate right.) Defeat and destroy the enemy. Limit collateral damage. (There will always be some) And win the hearts and minds of those on the sidelines. Or, If I may put in words of my work, Kill the fire ant that sting the residents, trap and relocate the raccoons in the dumpster, and get the residents on our side. (I killed the mean/dangerous biting insects, but didn't kill the cute, fuzzy critter. and thus a good guy.)
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1) What is this "Guns of August" you mention ? the only one I know of is the book by Barbra Tuchmann.
2) There was some benefit to letting capitalism do things. They at least benefited everybody. For example, United Fruit may have made tons of money for their shareholders by overthrowing Central American govts, but no one ever mentions they also built most of the roads, railroads, bridges, and port facilities in the region. We hear how under Batista "the mafia ran Cuba" what you don't hear is that during the period when the hotels and casino's were booming Cuba had the highest standard of living in the region.
Compare that to the emotion driven ban on hunting in Kenya, so called "eco-tourism is a flop. No hunting means no meat for villagers, and no more jobs . therefore the locals had no incentive to continue protecting the animals, and every incentive to poach the valuable vermin that were eating the crops that were their only remaining food source. The result has been an 85% drop in animal populations.
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It's going to be a late response for me tonight, but I wanted to post this for your enjoyment.
The Guns of August
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Capitalism is a good thing. :)
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Oh, I didn't know they made a documentary of it.
Cool.