The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on July 16, 2016, 08:33:26 AM
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Who here knows about propane, and the "dangers" involved in doing something like this? The problem with all of these one piece, "refill adaptors" you can buy at places like Harbor Freight, Camping World, etc., is they don't allow you to completely fill the bottle. You wind up compressing the gas left in the bottle you're trying to fill.
This method appears to allow for venting, thereby completely refilling the disposable bottle to full capacity. I also like the fact it has a valve. Are there any unforeseen dangers in this? Other than the obvious, "Don't smoke and do it in a well ventilated area", etc. You can't introduce any more pressure than what is contained in the 20 Lb. tank. So I can't see any danger of, "blowing anything up". The venting process seems pretty simple as well.
The parts and assembly of this tool look to be pretty straightforward. The only thing I'm seeing, (or else not seeing), is the 2 adapters he's using don't look so common. The male POL fitting that reduces to 1/4" MIP internal pipe, along with the female bottle to 1/4" MIP internal pipe, I've never seen. I wouldn't know where to go to even look for something like that. Has anyone here built one of these type of valves? If so, what method did you use?
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-completely-refill-a-1lb-disposable-propan/?ALLSTEPS
You have to keep clicking on "NEXT" to see all the steps.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Propane%20Refill%20Valve_zpsio849tco.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/Propane%20Refill%20Valve_zpsio849tco.jpg.html)
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honestly for how cheap they are, its not worth it.
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Depending on where you buy propane, you can refill these disposable bottles for about .50 cents each.
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I found this on Amazon. They appear to have everything else listed underneath. It looks as if I'm not the only guy doing this.
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Throwaway-Cylinder-Fitting/dp/B000BQM8IU/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1468676858&sr=8-10&keywords=propane+fittings+%26+adapters
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Depending on where you buy propane, you can refill these disposable bottles for about .50 cents each.
plus your time.
I bought some not too long ago at target for $6 for 8 ( end of season close out) I have a small space heater I use them on.( bigger ones are kerosene/diesel)
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I found this on Amazon. They appear to have everything else listed underneath. It looks as if I'm not the only guy doing this.
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Throwaway-Cylinder-Fitting/dp/B000BQM8IU/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1468676858&sr=8-10&keywords=propane+fittings+%26+adapters
People have been refilling small propane bottles from larger ones for some time, in fact. Essentially when you fill a 500 or 1000 gal tank from a truck, you are doing the same things, just on a larger scale. And by people who know what they're doing! ;D
Filling small bottles was especially prevalent when propane was a lot more expensive than it is now. I have not done it myself, but people who have indicate you should invert the 25# bottle that is filling the smaller ones so you get liquid propane and not just gas. If you are careful - and do not smoke while you are doing this - it should be safe.
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No propane container should ever be "full"......most 20# bottles have a net of around 15.5 to 16 lbs max.
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No propane container should ever be "full"......most 20# bottles have a net of around 15.5 to 16 lbs max.
Every time I have had a 20 pound bottle filled, the attendant doing the filling always vented my tank with a screwdriver until the white liquid propane vapor started to emerge from the top. That was called "full".
I'm sure if you filled the disposable bottles in the same manner you would be fine. (Maybe tilt them so the vent valve would be at the highest point). In fact, if you continued to fill after the liquid propane came out of the vent, you would just be wasting propane, and not setting up a dangerous condition. A bit like overfilling your gas tank until it ran out on the ground.
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And for what it's worth, I ordered all the fittings from Amazon this morning. They'll be here by next Friday. I'll report back when I get this whole deal up and running. In the reviews there are literally dozens of people and "preppers" who have done this exact sort of thing. It seems to be catching on.
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Profesional fill small tanks by weight. Any tank with a Guage is filled to no more than 90%. Usually 80% in or going into warm weather. When tanks are filled by a pump, like commercial portable fillers or by truck in larger tanks, no venting is needed or done. When filling by tank pressure only venting speeds the process, but with patience you will get same safe fill level without venting.
NEVER FILL FULL - liquid exiting the vent.
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Profesional fill small tanks by weight. Any tank with a Guage is filled to no more than 90%. Usually 80% in or going into warm weather. When tanks are filled by a pump, like commercial portable fillers or by truck in larger tanks, no venting is needed or done. When filling by tank pressure only venting speeds the process, but with patience you will get same safe fill level without venting.
NEVER FILL FULL - liquid exiting the vent.
^^^
This.
Ambient temperature has great effect on tank pressure. Tanks need that space to allow pressure fluctuation.
80% was what we filled to on forklift tanks via a manual venting valve and we used a pump. The tanks have a dip tube that go into the tank and the vapor starts to vent when the liquid hit 80%.
The little 1 lb cans have a relief valve also.
This explains it better:
The bleeder valve is designed so that during the filling process, when the propane going into the tank reaches 80%, liquid will come out of the opened valve. This lets the delivery driver know that the tank has reached its maximum filling capacity. The valve is connected to what is called a dip tube that goes into the container. The dip tube is fixed and set at length equal to 80% liquid level tank capacity. In other words, the tip of the dip tube is at the level equal to the container being 80% full. The dip tube itself should always be located in the vapor space and never submerged in liquid propane.
http://www.propane101.com/fixedliquidlevelgauge.htm
Also, I'm not saying not to fill the disposable bottles....if I used them, I'd fill them out of one of my 30# bottles. I have helped a friend fill his with a home-made filler. He weighed the bottles to see if they were full. I suspect those 1 lb bottles are designed to have the proper vapor space remaining after being filled with the 1 pound of propane (the Coleman label says 16.4 oz Net Weight).
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My two "100 gallon" tanks had 120 gallon capacity but were never filled above 80% of capacity. A full load was about 190-195 gallons.
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I use the adapter to fill those bottles for a small propane heater that I use in the winter. I do not vent them at all either. I freeze the bottle overnight, and make sure the 20# bottle is warm too (as in do not leave outside at 30 below). I invert the 20# tank and wait till it stops filling (slight hissing sound). I do weigh them, and I usually am right at or just below a 1# fill.
With the seals and all that, I will only fill a single bottle 10 times. A precaution on my end.
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A friend of mine was refilling 14.1 ounce disposable tanks from a 20 pound tank to run a small heater. He could only fill the tanks half full with his set-up. He got tired of wasting time and bought an adapter to use a 20 pound tank with his heater and eliminated all the unnecessary work. I on the other hand bought a bunch of 16.4 ounce propane tanks on sale to use on my torches. I think I paid $1.99 apiece for them. Neither one of us refills smaller tanks now.
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I use the procedure Bidah uses... cylinder in freezer for a couple of days, invert bulk tank to get as much liquid as possible... water check the Schrader valve