The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Rastus on December 18, 2016, 07:45:10 AM
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So later on during 2017 I'm thinking I will see some daylight and be able to actually buy a gun. I'm looking towards the Remington 17 Fireball as a turtle, snake, varmint gun.
I remember when the 17 Remington came out with news around 1970 with velocities exceeding the revered 220 Swift...it was like sacrilege. Well, I like that too but the full sized case to get an extra 200-400 FPS plus what I figure will be increased muzzle blast is steering me away from that.
I know the .204 Ruger is a strong contender but I'm wondering about other 17 caliber cartridges using reduced case sizes pushing 4,000 FPS. Remington seems to have abandoned the 17 Fireball but that's OK by me....maybe there is something better our there. I'm not worried about not having cases because if I go with a wildcat that's better I'll have a hard time there too...I'll buy plenty while the buying opportunity is there and reload.
What's out there...anyone have any favorites? This is going to be a sit in the back yard and zero out snakes and turtles gun from 75-175 yards....yes I do have a couple of 17 HMR's but the fireball is like a laser in the ranges I'll be shooting.
Opinions? Recommendations?
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If it's a small caliber varmint round you're after, it's pretty damn hard to beat the .223 / 5.56 MM. Brass is all but free, and can be picked up on most any range. Factory ammo is available in most any grade, weight, and bullet type imaginable. The round is accurate, and comes in any action type, barrel length, and price range you could ask for.
As an example, I grabbed this Marlin X-7 this past year for a song. (I think I paid under $250.00 for it). The first thing I did with it was to ditch the cheap molded plastic stock it came with, for a nice completely finished Laminated Thumbhole Stock for it from Boyd's for $99.00, that was a perfect drop in fit. I topped it off with a Nikon P-223 scope sitting in Burris Signature Zee Rings, and it shoots into one ragged hole for as long as I want to sit there squeezing the trigger. (Which is very good by the way, and similar to the Savage Accu-Trigger). I doubt I have $400 total in the whole rig. From a cost standpoint that's pretty hard to beat. That's just one example of how far your hard earned dollars go with the .223.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Marlin20X-720.22320002_zpsbnkdrmun.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/Marlin20X-720.22320002_zpsbnkdrmun.jpg.html)
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i have a rem 17( none fireball version) its a 4000 fps rodent destroyer. I know some guys use it coyotes too.
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Hornady claims the .17 Hornet has a trajectory comparable to a 55 gr 223 Rem, but the felt recoil of a 22 WMR. It's supposed to be good out to 300 yards and has less barrel wear than other .17 center fires especially with the 25 grain bullet which is less than $1 a pop. http://www.hornady.com/store/17-Hornet
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Count me with Bill, since it's a military round there is a lot more variety in guns, and ammo and it gets a lot more research put into things like bullet design and loads.
Why work to have some "almost as good as" when the bench mark it's falling a little sort of is so available.
On the otherhand, if you're just a .17 fan, that would be a different matter.
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I'm not sure about this, so don't take it as gospel. But I've read that the .17 centerfires have a lot more trouble with flyers and general inaccuracy due to bore fouling. The .17 HMR, not so much.
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If you are destorying a prairie dog colony. Firing 100s of rounds maybe, but thats not been my exp. That being said, its a very small and light bullet. I do know that if your reloading is not super anal, you will have issues.
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Bill you may be on to something here. I ran a 20 grain 17 Fireball and a 40 grain .223 together at 125 yd zero. The 223 is flatter than I thought it would be at 3,700 fps. I'll need to optimize the zero distance for 223 but for comparison to the 17 I left them the same in the table below
First column is yards and then the A's are 17 Fireball and the B's are 223. So if I get to move to where I want to live in a few months, I'll be shooting snakes and turtles at 70-130 yards. I will be shooting slightly down from about 8-15 feet of elevation and two miles through the swamp (wooded cypress swamp) civilization starts (and at 35-45' above the level I'm shooting at). So, that's where the 17 really came in because it bleeds energy like no one's business and blows up. And so 223 ballistic tip blows up too.
What I really wanted is something I can aim center of mass on (snake body, turtle head) and hit them at 70 to 130 yards like a laser. The 223 may do it but then that 17 bleeds off energy quicker.
I probably need to reconnoiter the 204 Ruger. It may be the best choice because it bleeds energy faster than 223 but is still a "laser". Looks like Remington is turning it's back on it's own...the 17 Fireball so if I go 17 it may be the full size 17 they've had forever. But, I already have 223 and reloading equipment.
Range Drop(inch) Velocity Energy Wind drift (inches) Time (milliseconds)
A B A B A B A B A B
0 -1.4954 -1.4950 3999 3699 710 1215 0.0000 0.0000 0 0
5 -1.3597 -1.3484 3966 3673 698 1198 0.0000 0.0000 4 4
10 -1.2296 -1.2083 3933 3647 687 1181 0.0000 0.0000 8 8
15 -1.1051 -1.0747 3900 3622 675 1165 0.0000 0.0000 12 13
20 -0.9863 -0.9477 3867 3596 664 1148 0.0000 0.0000 16 17
25 -0.8733 -0.8275 3835 3571 653 1132 0.0000 0.0000 19 21
30 -0.7663 -0.7140 3803 3546 642 1117 0.0000 0.0000 23 25
35 -0.6652 -0.6075 3772 3521 632 1101 0.0000 0.0000 27 29
40 -0.5702 -0.5080 3740 3496 621 1085 0.0000 0.0000 31 34
45 -0.4815 -0.4156 3709 3472 611 1070 0.0000 0.0000 35 38
50 -0.3991 -0.3304 3678 3447 601 1055 0.0000 0.0000 39 42
55 -0.3231 -0.2525 3647 3423 591 1040 0.0000 0.0000 43 47
60 -0.2536 -0.1820 3616 3399 581 1026 0.0000 0.0000 48 51
65 -0.1908 -0.1191 3586 3375 571 1012 0.0000 0.0000 52 55
70 -0.1348 -0.0638 3556 3351 561 997 0.0000 0.0000 56 60
75 -0.0856 -0.0162 3526 3327 552 983 0.0000 0.0000 60 64
80 -0.0434 0.0235 3497 3303 543 969 0.0000 0.0000 64 69
85 -0.0083 0.0552 3467 3280 534 955 0.0000 0.0000 69 74
90 0.0196 0.0789 3438 3256 525 941 0.0000 0.0000 73 78
95 0.0401 0.0944 3409 3233 516 928 0.0000 0.0000 78 83
100 0.0531 0.1015 3380 3210 507 915 0.0000 0.0000 82 87
105 0.0585 0.1002 3351 3187 499 902 0.0000 0.0000 86 92
110 0.0562 0.0904 3323 3164 490 889 0.0000 0.0000 91 97
115 0.0460 0.0719 3295 3141 482 876 0.0000 0.0000 95 102
120 0.0278 0.0445 3267 3119 474 864 0.0000 0.0000 100 106
125 0.0014 0.0083 3239 3096 466 851 0.0000 0.0000 105 111
130 -0.0332 -0.0371 3211 3074 458 839 0.0000 0.0000 109 116
135 -0.0763 -0.0916 3184 3052 450 827 0.0000 0.0000 114 121
140 -0.1279 -0.1555 3157 3029 443 815 0.0000 0.0000 119 126
145 -0.1883 -0.2288 3129 3007 435 803 0.0000 0.0000 123 131
150 -0.2575 -0.3117 3103 2986 428 792 0.0000 0.0000 128 136
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Count me with Bill, since it's a military round there is a lot more variety in guns, and ammo and it gets a lot more research put into things like bullet design and loads.
Why work to have some "almost as good as" when the bench mark it's falling a little sort of is so available.
On the otherhand, if you're just a .17 fan, that would be a different matter.
I also agree with Bill and Tom.
The .204 would be a compromise, but I still lean to the .223 myself. I have a single shot .223 that with 55gr HP's is quite the turtle destroyer.
Don't forget the .22-250 if you decide you later on want to extend the shooting distances beyond what you listed in the OP.
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I forgot about the dang 22-250 and I have one of them. Haven't shot it in 8-9 years.
Probably need to clean it...
And yes, see what the ballistics are in my range of interest.
However...I'm still leaning toward the 20 grain bullets and how they blow apart and drop at range.
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Well I did end up with a 17 Fireball. And I like it. I like it a lot.
We zeroed it at the range today. 200 yards kills golf balls every shot.
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8) It will be a lot easier to find brass to make into .17 Fireball than it would be for .17 Hornet.
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I also have an XP-100 in 221 Fireball. So, I have the parent case to the 17 Fireball.
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I also have an XP-100 in 220 Fireball. So, I have the parent case to the 17 Fireball.
Even better. You don't have to make them from .223. That would save a lot of time and effort.
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Well I did end up with a 17 Fireball. And I like it. I like it a lot.
We zeroed it at the range today. 200 yards kills golf balls every shot.
Cool.
I bet it'd tear a squirrel's existence up pretty good.
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if its any thing like my 17 rem mag, it turns them into a fine mist. 4k fps is just nuts.
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40 grain 22-250 is flatter than this 20 grain 17. However, the 22-250 I have is not as accurate as this 17 Fireball. I'm really pleased with the thing. It uses much less powder than the 17 Rem Mag.