The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on January 29, 2017, 08:38:23 PM
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This took place in a community about 25 miles from us, and in a town where I have taught Permit To Carry. Will be interesting to hear what is behind the arrest and charges. I can speculate, but will wait for facts.
http://www.southernminnesotanews.com/homeowner-jailed-face-charges-fatal-madelia-home-invasion/ (http://www.southernminnesotanews.com/homeowner-jailed-face-charges-fatal-madelia-home-invasion/)
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So far I don't see any indication that the homeowner did anything wrong. If criminals don't want to be shot they shouldn't be breaking into people's homes.
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There has to be much more to this. Did they know each other?
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The story doesn't provide enough information to warrant a good/bad shooting decision.
What time of day/night?
Did the homeowner have previous incidents with the now deceased?
Did the two involved enter the home or were they shot in the yard?
Was the homeowner sober at the time?
Information will likely become available, but at this point no decisions can be reliably made.
Crusader Rabbit
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There has to be much more to this. Did they know each other?
Haven't tied a relationship together yet in my mind, but I'm thinking there was either a retreat issue with the invaders, or that it was a warning shot gone astray. Of all the possibilities in my mind it is either a situation where the homeowner did not meet the four criteria needed to use deadly force, or law enforcement and prosecution are CYAing it.
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Crusader,
Call came in at about 7:00am, responding officers encountered the two leaving the scene shortly after, so the incident would have taken place in that 6:45 to 7:00am time frame. This is the same time that I sit here typing right now, and there is no sign of sunrise yet.
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Let's not forget Minnesota is a very left leaning state, and not very firearm friendly. I doubt however this went, the shooter is going to get the same legal discretion, as say a shooter in Arizona or Texas would under the same circumstances.
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Rural Minnesota isn't too bad. BCA is very fair and a good investigation unit. They clear several people a year, and have been in the heat over a couple of officer involved shootings that they deemed justified.
Watonwan County has been a revolving door of Sheriffs for as long as I can remember, but the current one is one without controversy. In classes, I have not had any students relay any issues of getting their Permits from existing holders or the organizer.
My hope is that I have no connection to this one that lands me in in the courtroom.
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Haven't tied a relationship together yet in my mind, but I'm thinking there was either a retreat issue with the invaders, or that it was a warning shot gone astray. Of all the possibilities in my mind it is either a situation where the homeowner did not meet the four criteria needed to use deadly force, or law enforcement and prosecution are CYAing it.
Mike, can you list the 4 criteria? I have been only aware of 3. Thanks
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Mike, can you list the 4 criteria? I have been only aware of 3. Thanks
1. Cannot be an active participant;
2. Must be in fear of death or great bodily harm;
3. No lessor force will do;
4. Retreat is not an option (this applies even in states with Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground)
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Oooooooooops!
http://www.keyc.com/story/34379445/pettersen-makes-first-appearance-in-home-invasion-shooting (http://www.keyc.com/story/34379445/pettersen-makes-first-appearance-in-home-invasion-shooting)
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Even ca only has 2. You can't be the aggresor and fear of body harm/death.
Pretty sad that you guys need too flee.
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<snip>
4. Retreat is not an option (this applies even in states with Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground)
Not true with Oklahoma Castle Doctrine. Dumb ass comes in your house or pounds on the front door and, "Ooops, there it is".
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My 3 are probably contained in "Fear Bodily Harm"
1. Intent - aggressor must show intent -
2. Means - aggressor must have the means to harm you. Healthy adult with a baseball bat, but not a 10 year old kid with bare hands
3. Capability - The adult with the ball bat does not have capability if on the other side of a 12 ft fence
You do not need to flee under Ohio's "Castle Document" Basically it says that if you are in your home the state has the burden of proof to show it was not a self defense shooting rather than you having the burden to show that is was.
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Well, he sure screwed up. I wonder how long they'll put him away?
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No need to flee is the whole point of "Castle Doctrine AKA "STAND YOUR GROUND"
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I'm having trouble reading all of this right..... This guy's in bed and hears a noise, and see's someone walking by. He then confronts the individual who then jumps off his deck while he goes and gets a gun. He then see's a car drive in front of him and fires "2 or 3 shots", calls 911 and waits for the cops to arrive.
On their way to the scene the cops come across the vehicle with a whole bunch of people all shot up inside. One of them dies.
1.) Was the homeowner shooting at the guy who jumped off the deck? But the car was behind the guy he was shooting at, and they took rounds by mistake? Or was the car trying to run him over? Or were they just trying to get away?
2.) Was the guy who jumped and ran involved with the car full of no goods who were.... "Casing the joint for a future robbery"? Or was the car full of no goods in no way involved with the deck jumper? This is all about as clear as mud.
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I think the the guy who ran away got in the car while he was getting his gun and he came out and started shooting at the car. That's how it sounded to me anyway.
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Here is more:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/31/homeowner-charged-with-manslaughter-for-shooting-at-home-invasion-suspects.html
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He must have watched too many movies and TV shows before he tried to shoot the tires of the car. He messed up big time.
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He must have watched too many movies and TV shows before he tried to shoot the tires of the car. He messed up big time.
All the guy had to do was write down the license plate and give it to the cops. Now his life is ruined for acting stupidly. You don't shoot at someone fleeing.
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All the guy had to do was write down the license plate and give it to the cops. Now his life is ruined for acting stupidly. You don't shoot at someone fleeing.
Agreed!
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Be warned and ready:
The media and anti's will attack this as trigger happy Permit To Carry, and Stand Your Ground dangers. This is neither! This is an ordinary homeowner who did a stupid illegal thing in reaction to a stupid and illegal action by three others.
Even though this man acted poorly, and possibly illegally, don't get sucked into carry debates or other anti gun talking points.
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What he did was illegal because it broke the rules, like speeding, not because it was bad like rape or robbery.