The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: RTFM on February 06, 2017, 07:35:32 PM
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- original read form Soldier Systems:
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/02/06/atf-associate-deputy-director-suggests-lifting-many-firearms-regulations/
Take the source for what it is:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/senior-atf-official-proposes-loosening-gun-regulations/2017/02/06/beeb1120-ec7c-11e6-9662-6eedf1627882_story.html?utm_term=.0aaad0343514
arlier today the Washington Post referenced an 11-page white paper, written by a high-ranking official at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Ronald B Turk who is Associate Deputy Director (Chief Operating Officer) at the ATF.
What is so interesting about this document, Titled “Options to Reduce or Modify Firearms Regulations” and dated 20 January, 2017, is its content. Turk suggests wide sweeping reforms for gun laws and most would be welcomed by gun owners and the industry which services them. However, this document was clearly marked “Not for public distribution” and was intended to stir internal government dialogue. Considering the source of the public disclosure (WaPo) we have to contemplate that its leak was intended to shock rather than inspire the public.
It’s topics would have never been considered privately, let alone publicly during the Obama Administration. Here is a list compiled by JF, a member of a Facebook group considered with NFA law.
1. New Federal Firearms Licensees (FFL) Dealing Exclusively at Gun Shows (or internet)
2. Creating a better process to approve pending requests for AP Ammo from manufacturers
3. Importing Surplus Firearms from Foreign Countries
4. Variances for SOTs to transfer Post-1986 machine guns without Demo Letters
5. Stabilizing Brace, creating a more consistent ruling
6. Commission a study on “Sporting Purposes” to comply with modern needs
7. Create a database of previous ATF rulings
8. “Legalizing” Silencers, citing expense of regulation. Change definition on “Silencer Parts”
9. Interstate Sale of Firearms at Gun shows
10. Destructive Devices, distinguishing between launcher and munitions
11 & 12. Demand letters to FFLs involving guns used in crimes
13. Changing requirement of FFL recording keeping from 20 years to indefinite
14. Allowing greater use of NICS by FFLs
15. Requiring ATF director to be confirmed by Senate
16. Reviewing a long list of Regs for Removal/Amendment
The only one which will probably create outcry from gun owners is #13 which recommends extending ATF record keeping to indefinite from 20 years. Everything else has some up at some time or another as things gun owners and industry want. Obviously, this document isn’t an official ATF policy position, but it’s a great place to start a conversation when someone wants to discuss “common sense” gun laws.
ATF White Paper Cover
(http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/ATF-White-Paper-Cover-440x505.jpg)
Link to 11 page .PDF
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Options-to-Reduce-or-Modify-Firearms-Regulation.pdf
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I'd like to see a lot of regulations changed and they need to quit using the anti-gunners made up words that are designed to scare ignorant non-gunners, like "assault weapons" or "semi auto assault weapons". There are no such things and it should be acknowledged that there aren't.
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They need to review all gun laws in view of the Dredd Scott decision which specified the ownership and carrying of arms as a basic right of citizenship, It was superceded by the 13 th amendment which granted blacks citizenship, but it's reasoning has never been challenged)
Also re examine the "sporting clause" in light of the Miller decision which ruled that only militarily useful arms were protected.
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All of these4 changes need to - no MUST - be enacted by Congress and not through the ATF.
IMHO this is a cheap shoddy ploy by the ATF to save their asses - and the organization! We have learned the hard way we cannot - and must not - trust anyone in the ATF. So make the rules LAWS and then the ATF under a gun-grabbing President cannot use the ATF to reinstate them on his whim.
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It is a trap. Lull us into complacency. If now laws are repealed, when a democratic administration is in place, we're screwed in the nether regions.
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It is a trap. Lull us into complacency. If now laws are repealed, when a democratic administration is in place, we're screwed in the nether regions.
This is correct. We need to fix the issue by repealing laws!
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I'm displeased at the way the ATF has been able to morph from a tax collection agency to a full blown law enforcement one by usurping powers from the FBI. Granted it was done through various legislation but I'm sure exec's at the ATF had a hand in shaping that by lobbying Congress.
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I have read that a couple of retired ATF guys are saying this tool is just trying to: a) get a promotion, and b) insure that ATF stays rather than be dissolved. He's just sucking up to Trump. "Look at me, you can work with me and I take direction". I agree with what was stated earlier though. Do away with them or change it by legislation so that the next Obamanumbnutz can't throw the rules back on.
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All "policies" should have to pass Congress like any other law.
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I read several articles saying this is killing the silencer industry. Sales are plummeting to the point many silencer companies are laying off people. The reason is many people who want them are waiting for this to pass so they won't have to eat the $200.00 tax to buy one. Many also believe they will drop in price, because the only thing holding the price up is because it's a NFA item.
Regardless if it's true or not, people are holding off on buying these things. In a way I can't blame them. In a lot of locations the paperwork for these things takes forever to clear. So a lot of people figure they have to wait anyway, so why not hold off until they can simply walk in and buy one without having their names and address on file with the ATF? And end up $200.00 richer too boot.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/02/foghorn/layoffs-reported-silencerco-citing-lagging-sales-due-hearing-protection-act/
http://modernrifleman.net/2017/02/02/mass-layoffs-at-silencerco/
http://www.recoilweb.com/whats-quieting-the-silencer-industry-126010.html
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I read several articles saying this is killing the silencer industry. Sales are plummeting to the point many silencer companies are laying off people. The reason is many people who want them are waiting for this to pass so they won't have to eat the $200.00 tax to buy one. Many also believe they will drop in price, because the only thing holding the price up is because it's a NFA item.
Regardless if it's true or not, people are holding off on buying these things. In a way I can't blame them. In a lot of locations the paperwork for these things takes forever to clear. So a lot of people figure they have to wait anyway, so why not hold off until they can simply walk in and buy one without having their names and address on file with the ATF? And end up $200.00 richer too boot.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/02/foghorn/layoffs-reported-silencerco-citing-lagging-sales-due-hearing-protection-act/
http://modernrifleman.net/2017/02/02/mass-layoffs-at-silencerco/
http://www.recoilweb.com/whats-quieting-the-silencer-industry-126010.html
Such is the danger of serving a niche market.
In a way, the company leaders did it to themselves, and I hate that folks are losing jobs because of it.
Suppressors are cost prohibitive in nature because of both the $200 tax and the actual cost of the can. I mean let's be realistic, by the time you pay the tax and then buy the can, you'll end up with (in many instances of the average Joe) a device that cost more than the rifle or pistol it's going on. I just built a $450 AR pistol and I'm not going to spend $400 to $800 (depending on brand + the stamp) for a can for the thing.
And let's also be honest about the cost..... they could sell them cheaper and sell more volume, but they have viewed it from the point that if someone can afford the stamp, then they can pay up for the can.
I have a friend who filed his own paperwork and got his stamp and then built his own suppressor for less than $50 and engraved the number on the parts. And for $250, his works as good as another friend's expensive store-bought unit.
So, I'm one of the guys who decided to wait until after the election (a gamble) to see what would happen.
Best case scenario for me is a deregulation of suppressors and I'll buy or build one (neighbor has a machine shop ( ;D ). Worst case, the bill don't pass, then I'll file the paperwork and get the stamp and build one anyway (yes, this was always an option before now, but I haven't been as interested in a can as I am now since using a couple on other people's guns at the range).
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....And let's also be honest about the cost..... they could sell them cheaper and sell more volume, but they have viewed it from the point that if someone can afford the stamp, then they can pay up for the can.
I have a friend who filed his own paperwork and got his stamp and then built his own suppressor for less than $50 and engraved the number on the parts. And for $250, his works as good as another friend's expensive store-bought unit.
I couldn't agree more Peg. These things have been a rip off for years. There is nothing to them to justify the ridiculous price they charge for them. They're a glorified muffler, nothing more. Most of these things can be produced for the cost of one progressive stamping die. For what they're charging, they can pay off the die in the first 100 units they sell. The material cost, (even if they use Titanium), isn't that much based on weight. For Stainless Steel it's even cheaper. And as you mentioned, there is no way these things are worth as much, or more than the gun they're going to be screwed on to. You watch how cheap they get when this law passes.
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any decent machinist can build a can. the thing is they are expensive because of limited supply. if any one could make them, the price would cut in half. simply do too the fact that small shops have to spend big bucks on machines that don't run enough to be practical. a small job shop could make them very quick and cheap.
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Some one was selling a fitting that screwed onto a threaded barrel and was threaded for an oil filter..
The onlything that really needs any thought or research is baffle placement for best performance.
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Some one was selling a fitting that screwed onto a threaded barrel and was threaded for an oil filter..
The onlything that really needs any thought or research is baffle placement for best performance.
The only problem is the iron sights are completely useless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t_pcWPdSDs
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Same is true wit most cans unless you get raised sights.
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If you use a fuel filter instead of an oil filter the sights don't have to be raised as high to see over it. http://www.2acheck.com/wix-fuel-filter-suppressor-wix-fuel-filter-solvent-trap/