The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on March 26, 2017, 08:06:53 AM
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My Inbox is getting bombarded daily by sales and deals from most every gun, and gun related distributor out there. Midway, Brownell's, CDNN, Primary Arms, Classic Arms, Cheaper Than Dirt, Palmetto, and at least a dozen more. All are having sales on guns, ammo, and related gear like never before. Midway is having, "one day only" sales on ammo every single day. A lot of them are really cheap. Not to mention Cabela's and Bass Pro stuffing flyers in my mailbox at least once a week.
There is no doubt all of these places stocked up to the rafters with product before the election, anticipating a Clinton victory like most did. The AR-15 market is getting hit the hardest. The Suppressor market is suffering because the Hearing Protection Act may very well get passed. I'm even seeing far more ads by the NRA for membership discounts as well. It seems as if everybody is pushing something on sale now that Trump has won, and the big Second Amendment threat appears to be over. At least for a while.
I can't help but wonder how many of them are disappointed that Trump won? It has really hurt their profit margin, that's for sure and for certain. And it will for at least the next 4 years. And very well for the next 8 and beyond. Many places have had layoff's. I believe Remington let over 100 go already. I can't help but think after the record firearms sales that were taking place for the 8 years Obama was in office, they all wanted that to continue for another 4. And they would have no doubt had it if Clinton had won. Kind of reminds me of the old saying how Tigers can sometimes turn on themselves, and eat their young.
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Just to add. Brownell's is now handling firearms, not just parts for them. And they are handling A LOT OF THEM. And most of the one's they're handling are in stock. They never used to. So you know they were betting on Clinton, because that's a huge investment in inventory. It will be interesting to see just how long they remain in the complete firearms business. I have mixed emotions about all of this. I understand how in business the bottom line is everything. In a way I can't blame them because I didn't think Trump would win either. I just don't think they're as happy about Trump's victory as we all are.
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I just ordered a short 9mm upper for my registered SBR... and looking over the items for sale at Palmetto State Armory, found it pretty amazing that you can put together an AR for under $420....posters on another forum commented that they had seen DelTon and SW complete rifles for $400 or less
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AIM has a 16" barreled receiver on promo for $179. Would need lower, BCG and CH.
Also 9mm AR lower (Glock mag) for $135. Tempted. Very Tempted.
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Alf... the PCC division for USPSA has really taken off down here, around 16 shooters at the last monthly match... a real blast for old folks with old eyes.. 32 rounds, dot scope on a carbine... don't have to wear a pistol and belt, just a couple of pistol mags... wheel the carbine to the line with your stroller, shoot the stage, replace in the rack... repeat... if you decide to jump in, make a comment, I may be able to answer some questions... regards Les
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My fear is that a LOT of shooters, new and established, will believe the crisis is now over and while it is at a lull all of us here know is is NOT over. I fear the fallout out the Trump victory along with the busted "bubble" in the market may cost us some of our smaller gun manufactures and while everyone, myself included, is looking forward to the passage of the HPA it is not a done deal and I hope we don't loose any of the manufactures due to people delaying their purchases. I agree with the NRA that NOW is the time for us to all start hitting our state and federal congress critters for pro-gun legislation. If we "rest" for too long the anti's will catch us with our pants down and hurt us or at least delay our ability to recover some of the ground we lost over the past few decades.
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As far as firearm and accessory sales go, it's like the auto industry, real estate, and everything else. After every boom there is a bust. We have had a roaring firearms and ammunition market for the last 8 years. And people have been paying premium prices for both during this time. Manufacturers have been making a bundle, and most couldn't keep up with the demand.
Now it's over. For the most part politics is the reason why. The firearms market is politically driven, and has been for decades. Also, many people are spent out. They bought weapons, (especially AR-15's, semi auto pistols & Hi-Cap magazines), because they thought the time was going to be limited before new, more restrictive laws were passed preventing their sale. That didn't happen. Obama couldn't even get increased background checks passed. They sure as hell won't pass anything now.
So the result of all of this is going to be a big glut in the market. We're already seeing it. Distributors loaded up on merchandise, they will now have to sell for much less profit than they would have if the election had gone the other way. If another threat emerges, people will react. But that isn't going to be for a while. The liberal Democrats are going to have their hands full hating and fighting Trump for the next 8 years. Introducing any anti gun legislation would be futile. Some manufacturers might not survive this period. High profit items that are easy to manufacture, like suppressors will be the hardest hit. But it's that way in every business. Don't look for any pro gun legislation to be introduced for at least the next 2 years, maybe more. Trump simply has too much on his plate right now.
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The antis know that with the Republican majority at the federal level they aren't likely to get any new anti-gun laws passed there. That's why they're intensifying their efforts at the state level. There are so many pieces of anti-gun legislation being submitted at the state level it will make your head spin. They're trying to ban "assault weapons", whatever they are, as well as non-assault weapons. They're trying to get all of us and our guns registered, which can only lead to confiscation. There is much, much more and everyone needs to get involved with their state's pro-gun groups as well as the NRA and other national groups. This is the time to act to save our precious rights, not sit back and relax as all this is happening.
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But, with the exception of the "usual suspects" Ca, NY, etc. they're losing at the State level as well.
There are now 14 constitutional carry states .
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But, with the exception of the "usual suspects" Ca, NY, etc. they're losing at the State level as well.
There are now 14 constitutional carry states .
Very true. The states that are "losing" are already lost. California, New York, and Mass. at the top of the list. They will continue to slide into the anti gun abyss. But a lot of other states are losing at attempting to pass anything anti gun, as Tom said. This is the best the pro gun people have had it in decades.
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as Tom said. This is the best the pro gun people have had it in decades.
Yep. But that also means the environment is also the best to push MORE pro-gun laws into effect. Push MORE states with Constitutional carry, etc...
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I live in NY, we are fighting the anti's,But until nycity sinks or is made a separate state,we get outvoted. Until EVERY gun owner in the state votes against the anti's,there isn't much we can do.
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Yep. But that also means the environment is also the best to push MORE pro-gun laws into effect. Push MORE states with Constitutional carry, etc...
When you've got them on the ropes isn't time to back.
It's time to step in and smash them .
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I live in NY, we are fighting the anti's,But until nycity sinks or is made a separate state,we get outvoted. Until EVERY gun owner in the state votes against the anti's,there isn't much we can do.
We were faced with the same thing when I lived in Illinois. Chicago runs Illinois. Not Springfield. There is nothing anyone can do in that state to fight it. It just keeps getting worse. More crime = more gun laws. It's a never ending saga that just keeps going. I got out in 1991 and it was bad then. It's 10 times worse now.
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Just a point of reference. Atlanta is smaller than Chicago, with about 1/3 the population density, but still they just had their first homocide of 2017 this week. Of course we're a must issue state with gun stores on every corner, but hey 1 homocide in 3 months.
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Chitcago is already over 700 shootings for the year.
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
Another thing about gun sales.
There is nothing to get excited about.
They are all the same 4 basic designs,
1) Glock's and clones
2) 1911's
3) Pocket pistols
4)Revolvers
With in the groups there is nothing to chose from except caliber.
No styling or graceful lines like in earlier ages, no exposed barrels, no variation from the "norm" and no character.
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They are all the same 4 basic designs,
1) Glock's and clones
2) 1911's
3) Pocket pistols
4)Revolvers
With in the groups there is nothing to chose from except caliber.
No styling or graceful lines like in earlier ages, no exposed barrels, no variation from the "norm" and no character.
I understand your point, but I think there is some variety. The R-51 was an attempt to introduce something a little different.
And you left out DA/SA's like the PP/PPK and the Beretta 92 among many others.
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I understand your point, but I think there is some variety. The R-51 was an attempt to introduce something a little different.
And you left out DA/SA's like the PP/PPK and the Beretta 92 among many others.
That's exactly my point, both the PPK and the Beretta are 1930's designs the grand total of changes is a double stack mag for the Beretta.
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True, the basic technology has just been tinkered with, e.g., Glock figured how to bond a minimal metal rail to a polymer frame and Sig figured how to make it work without the bonding. Chiappa fires out the bottom of the cylinder (probably not the first to do so). But yeah, besides single shots, five basic designs.
Basically the same is true about rifles and oh-my shotguns are probably even more static.
What would be a game changer in firearms? How about a handheld Rail Gun? And with Tesla's help, batteries to support that might be around the corner.
Even if someone came up with a PPK size .45acp that had the recoil of a .22, the noise level of a bb gun, and the capacity of a 92, it's still just 80 year old da/sa. ;)
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What's really happened with shotguns in the last 110+ years? Semi-autos have mostly switched from recoil operated to gas operated and back to recoil operated. Nothing to get excited about yet post-election.
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True, the basic technology has just been tinkered with, e.g., Glock figured how to bond a minimal metal rail to a polymer frame and Sig figured how to make it work without the bonding. Chiappa fires out the bottom of the cylinder (probably not the first to do so). But yeah, besides single shots, five basic designs.
Basically the same is true about rifles and oh-my shotguns are probably even more static.
What would be a game changer in firearms? How about a handheld Rail Gun? And with Tesla's help, batteries to support that might be around the corner.
Even if someone came up with a PPK size .45acp that had the recoil of a .22, the noise level of a bb gun, and the capacity of a 92, it's still just 80 year old da/sa. ;)
The only new development in firearms in the last century has been materials, stainless steel , plastic and aluminum.
Double stack mags ? Hell, The Mauser C-96 was a double stack, there were at least 2 that competed against Colt in the 1907 pistol trials.
But they could do something about the looks of them.
If plastic is so versatile why do they all have to look like bricks ?
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My guess for an improvement in current firearm design would be a reliable "Fire by wire" system.
Pull weight would be adjustable as would trigger movement. No movement would be required to fire, just for personal preference in "feel"
It could be adjusted so it broke at the desired weight and fired with exceedingly minimal trigger movement if desired. Reset would be the same....just a lessening of finger pressure and very minimal movement.
This would also be the solution to one of the biggest drawbacks to bullpup designs.
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........My guess for an improvement in current firearm design would be a reliable "Fire by wire" system.
Remington tried something like that with their whole Etronix System on the Remington 700. They utilized a special primer with battery powered electronics, that decreased lock time. It was a dismal failure. Today these guns are nothing more than novelty collector guns. It was a good idea, but customers rejected anything electronic. Much like they reject all of this so called "Smart Gun" technology.
People scoff at the idea that, "big brother could somehow render their guns useless", by messing with the electronics involved. Gun people are funny that way. Remember the big primer scare? People actually believed that ammunition manufacturers had the technology to make primers "go dead" after a certain specified length of time. Even though guys like Steve Hornady made the case that no such technology exists, and never will. They believed it anyway. So much so primers were at shortage levels for a few years, because people were hoarding them. Much like they are now with .22 ammo. Gun people are old school. Look at how many reject Polymer in guns. Even though it's been around for the last 30 years.
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I remember back in the 60's when BB gun manufacturer Daisy introduced the VL-22. It was an air rifle that fired special caseless .22 ammunition. The ammo came packed in long, clear plastic tubes. Ignition was accomplished by compressing air into the chamber rapidly, which in turn would heat it hot enough to get the caseless powder charge burning, that was attached to back of the bullet. Much like the way a Diesel engine operates.
The guns were pretty inexpensive when they came out. But the ammunition cost more than regular .22 L.R. ammo at the time. And it was less powerful, and difficult to find. The ammo itself was also very delicate, and the powder charge would break off the back of the bullet, and crumble easily. And it was effected negatively by any rain or humidity that would cause misfires. The end result is these are now prized collector guns, along with the caseless ammunition. Another good idea that never was accepted in the gun industry.
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I am of the opinion that the technology, while not totally perfect, is close. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. About the only thing I could think of is to fire the firearm by thought or have it aim itself both of which could probably be done with existing tech if someone wanted to.
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there is some old technology out there that is getting a fresh look...I know there are a lot of SOCOM people looking at the 6.5 x .308 (260 Rem) for an AR10 size platform with out to 1500m potential...to make use of the high ballistic co-efficients of better than .600 for the 150 grain range of projectiles...
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M25 operator has a VL 22 and has commented on it before.
It's the only succesful caseless ammo gun and ATF killed it because Daisy didn't want to jump through the hoops.
I think they should bring back the "Minie" bullet and put the propellant inside the bullet which would eliminate the propellant chipping issues Walther ran into. Two problems with caseless ammo, combustible primers that don't mess up the action, and a method of clearing the chamber with out an ejection port.
Electronic ignition is a waste of thought, it over complicates a perfected system, many of the fiddly bits are doing more than one thing, secondly, battery life is finite, mechanical triggers never run out.
Rail gun would be OK but until battery technology advances it's not practical, again, batteries have finite life. Another draw back, for hand guns, is excessive velocity. A 45 ACP at 1100 fps is fine, the same bullet at 4000+ would be over penetrating into the next state.
I don't care if the technology changes. I'm talking esthetics. You look at 3 revolvers and with out thought you can pick out which is the Ruger, the Colt, and the S&W. Modern semi auto designs are all Glockish plastic bang bricks. ADD SOME F#CKING CHARACTER, is that so hard ? Or are modern gun makers that lazy and uninspired ?
Next full aize pistol I buy will probably be an EAA Witness, it's the only non 1911 that doesn't look like every other damned pistol in the store.
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......Next full aize pistol I buy will probably be an EAA Witness, it's the only non 1911 that doesn't look like every other damned pistol in the store.
Don't forget about the Desert Eagle / Jericho pistols. They are all steel, reasonably priced, run good, and are available in both .45 ACP and 9 MM.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/BabyDesertEagle45ACP.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/BabyDesertEagle45ACP.jpg.html)
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Tom if there was a pistol version of a rail gun spitting out a bullet at 4,000 FPS it wouldn't weigh 230 grains. It would weigh maybe as much as an aspirin tablet. It would have a lot of penetration up close but shed velocity fast because of the light weight and most likely crappy aerodynamics too. But we'll never see battery technology develop to the point of making it practical.
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Why can't Ruger beef up their 22Mk I-IV series ?
Put a lug on either side of the reciever riding in helical grooves in the bolt with locking lugs on the bolt head and chamber would provide a locked breach system as strong as most semi auto rifles.
Tom if there was a pistol version of a rail gun spitting out a bullet at 4,000 FPS it wouldn't weigh 230 grains. It would weigh maybe as much as an aspirin tablet. It would have a lot of penetration up close but shed velocity fast because of the light weight and most likely crappy aerodynamics too. But we'll never see battery technology develop to the point of making it practical.
Actually in a pistol 45 at 230+grains might be the way to go. Control the velocity by adding or removing weight.
Yes, because they've been screwing around with sub caliber rifles since 1896 and they haven't worked yet as advertised. You just use more bullets Everytime countries go through a phase of adopting they wind up returning to calibers of 6.5 mm or greater and if they are countries that actually use their military rifles they shit can 6.5 as well.
We've already seen some of this in Asia with the return to 7.62 X 51 do to long ranges in Afghanistan.
It will take a long time because rechambering an entire army is expensive, but you will see calibers below 6 mm fade out again.
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Stuff sells out before I even open the email.
The 9mm lowers were gone and now AIM has (had) used Italian Beretta 92-S for $299. Gone before 9am this morning.
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Midway has CCI Blazer Brass 124 Gr. 9 MM Ball for only $179.99 @ 1,000. One day only. That's just .18 cents a round, or $9.00 a box.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/930273/blazer-brass-ammunition-9mm-luger-124-grain-full-metal-jacket
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Midway has CCI Blazer Brass 124 Gr. 9 MM Ball for only $179.99 @ 1,000. One day only. That's just .18 cents a round, or $9.00 a box.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/930273/blazer-brass-ammunition-9mm-luger-124-grain-full-metal-jacket
But it's Blazer :P ???.
That's the only stuff that ever choked my Glock.
Crusader Rabbit
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But it's Blazer
It's not the Aluminum cased stuff. This is brass cased, boxer primed, and fully reloadable. It's also 124 grain. NOT 115 grain.
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I haven't heard of any problems with Blazer Brass but have with the aluminum cased stuff. I've had good luck with the aluminum cases except for one round that didn't have an extractor groove. I noticed it before I loaded the mag so the only problem was that I was one round short. I can't remember for sure but they may have given me a new box of ammo after that.
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Someone once said that all that could be invented had been invented. I am not going to say that same thing when it comes to firearms. However, as I look where we were and where we have come, the next step is going to be electronics.
Honestly, there has been no innovation in firearms in the half century. Materials and nuances in design are not innovation. I am not a believer that electronics, digital, no mechanical connection, etc. is the type of improvement in the industry that will really improve anything.
I just had a brain fart, and totally lost my train of thought. Damn! I don't know if I need a nap or a shot :'(
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Kind of late for a nap. You better have a shot. ;)